2016 Season General Red Sox Chat

[SinceYaz]

Can you say Panic! At the Disco?

 

All of these "aggressive" moves just may work out, but they all reek of "win now" mentality, with no real consideration for the long term implications.

 

That concerns me.

 

I think that the consideration FOR Swihart is clear. DD isn't casting him off but getting him ready for the reality that he has far more value being a multi-positional player. What Swihart did for us last year was terrific, IMO. He was no where near ready but he showed his aptitude to adjust and learn. If he keeps on with that ability he will be a valuable team player going forward and this time in AAA will be seen as a smart move.

 

I do have a twitchy-ness about DD's itchy trade finger. I join you there. But he has already spared Swihart...now, what to do with Panda and Clay (I am finally losing support for him.)

[SoxnCycles]

I think that the consideration FOR Swihart is clear. DD isn't casting him off but getting him ready for the reality that he has far more value being a multi-positional player. What Swihart did for us last year was terrific, IMO. He was no where near ready but he showed his aptitude to adjust and learn. If he keeps on with that ability he will be a valuable team player going forward and this time in AAA will be seen as a smart move.

 

I do have a twitchy-ness about DD's itchy trade finger. I join you there. But he has already spared Swihart...now, what to do with Panda and Clay (I am finally losing support for him.)

 

They'll probably be able to unload Clay by july, but Panda is our for the long haul.

He's pretty much untradable untill he gets his act together.

[SinceYaz]

They'll probably be able to unload Clay by july, but Panda is our for the long haul.

He's pretty much untradable untill he gets his act together.

 

I had a silly idea ... I wonder if the Sox could hire Ozzie Guillen, a fellow Venezuelan, but full of spit and pride, to somehow turn Panda around.

[S5Dewey]

I think that the consideration FOR Swihart is clear. DD isn't casting him off but getting him ready for the reality that he has far more value being a multi-positional player. What Swihart did for us last year was terrific, IMO. He was no where near ready but he showed his aptitude to adjust and learn. If he keeps on with that ability he will be a valuable team player going forward and this time in AAA will be seen as a smart move.

 

I do have a twitchy-ness about DD's itchy trade finger. I join you there. But he has already spared Swihart...now, what to do with Panda and Clay (I am finally losing support for him.)

 

I've always been a fan of Clay's, mostly because when he's on he's almost unhittable. (literally unhittable on one day!) However, it's getting harder and harder to champion the cause of his being here. I have no objection to paying him what he's getting for half a year's production but he's got to produce for that half year and if he doesn't produce during the first half of the year he's not going to get the chance to produce for the second half.

 

Re: Swihart - We have a very nice problem with Vazquez and Swihart. Both of them are good enough to be starting catchers someplace and both of them are too good to be backup catchers. That means one of them will go in a trade.

 

I don't understand Swihart's getting time in the OF though. His primary value is as a catcher and he hits well enough to be a good hitting catcher - but not well enough to be a good hitting OF'er. In addition, our OF could be locked up with cost controlled good OF's in Bradley and Betts with Benni (never mind. I never can spell his name!) allegedly knocking at the door and guys like Young and/or Holt in reserve. So where's the value in playing Swihart in the OF?

[SinceYaz]

I've always been a fan of Clay's, mostly because when he's on he's almost unhittable. (literally unhittable on one day!) However, it's getting harder and harder to champion the cause of his being here. I have no objection to paying him what he's getting for half a year's production but he's got to produce for that half year and if he doesn't produce during the first half of the year he's not going to get the chance to produce for the second half.

 

Re: Swihart - We have a very nice problem with Vazquez and Swihart. Both of them are good enough to be starting catchers someplace and both of them are too good to be backup catchers. That means one of them will go in a trade.

 

I don't understand Swihart's getting time in the OF though. His primary value is as a catcher and he hits well enough to be a good hitting catcher - but not well enough to be a good hitting OF'er. In addition, our OF could be locked up with cost controlled good OF's in Bradley and Betts with Benni (never mind. I never can spell his name!) allegedly knocking at the door and guys like Young and/or Holt in reserve. So where's the value in playing Swihart in the OF?

 

 

You know me, S5, I have a very hard time saying anything negative about any of our guys. That goes for Clay as much as anyone. I am starting to consider his performance as an option that is opening doors for him to go ...

 

I did forget for the moment Benni ... but I think that the trade value for Swihart (bite my tongue) goes up if he is multi-positional. I think that if he is able to be the 2nd catcher here and play the OF on off days makes him and his bat as a good deal. BUT his strength really is that he is a catcher still in training. I know he played MLB last year but that was only because of the must have situation with Vaz and Hannigan going down. (I know you know that) I love Swihart's athleticism. He hits well, runs well ... and apparently he learns quickly.

None of that is bad.

[User Name]

The Red Sox believe Swihart's bat to be a true asset. If they can turn him into a C/3B/1B/LF hybrid with above average defense, that's enormous value right there.

[SinceYaz]

Agreed, completely.

[S5Dewey]

The Red Sox believe Swihart's bat to be a true asset. If they can turn him into a C/3B/1B/LF hybrid with above average defense, that's enormous value right there.

 

Even if I agreed with you (which I don't necessarily), where's he going to play if he stays with the Sox? He's not going to displace Shaw (assuming Shaw continues to play like he is), nor is he going to replace Hanley or Vazquez.

 

I like his bat - for a middle of the IF bat. I see him hitting between .280-.320 with 15 HR power and an OPS of ~.700, which is good for a middle of the defense bat but it doesn't get it done at the corner positions.

 

IMHO he has more value to the Red Sox as trade bait as the centerpiece of a trade with a team needing a catcher and being willing to trade a #2 or #3 pitcher to get that catcher. I could even be persuaded to trade him for a high level pitching prospect (think our EdRod) with a big upside but who's still unproven.

 

What I wouldn't do is give him away for less than he's worth. We're dealing from a position of strength with our younger players now. We've got five - six if you count Brock Holt - of our starting eight being young cost-controlled players at the moment with more in the pipeline. DD is going to be getting the calls and he can show up to meetings with a mask and a gun and get just about what we need for them.

[SoxnCycles]

Even if I agreed with you (which I don't necessarily), where's he going to play if he stays with the Sox? He's not going to displace Shaw (assuming Shaw continues to play like he is), nor is he going to replace Hanley or Vazquez.

 

I like his bat - for a middle of the IF bat. I see him hitting between .280-.320 with 15 HR power and an OPS of ~.700, which is good for a middle of the defense bat but it doesn't get it done at the corner positions.

 

IMHO he has more value to the Red Sox as trade bait as the centerpiece of a trade with a team needing a catcher and being willing to trade a #2 or #3 pitcher to get that catcher. I could even be persuaded to trade him for a high level pitching prospect (think our EdRod) with a big upside but who's still unproven.

 

What I wouldn't do is give him away for less than he's worth. We're dealing from a position of strength with our younger players now. We've got five - six if you count Brock Holt - of our starting eight being young cost-controlled players at the moment with more in the pipeline. DD is going to be getting the calls and he can show up to meetings with a mask and a gun and get just about what we need for them.

 

What that old saying? "These things usually work themselves out?"

 

I'd rather see Swihart work on catching skills while in AAA, but if the Sox think he'll be of more use as a utility player, so be it.

At the very least, he may be able to replace Young, if he get injured..

[mvp 78]

The Red Sox believe Swihart's bat to be a true asset. If they can turn him into a C/3B/1B/LF hybrid with above average defense, that's enormous value right there.

 

Brock Swihart

[SinceYaz]

Yup

[sk7326]

Even if I agreed with you (which I don't necessarily), where's he going to play if he stays with the Sox? He's not going to displace Shaw (assuming Shaw continues to play like he is), nor is he going to replace Hanley or Vazquez.

 

I like his bat - for a middle of the IF bat. I see him hitting between .280-.320 with 15 HR power and an OPS of ~.700, which is good for a middle of the defense bat but it doesn't get it done at the corner positions.

 

IMHO he has more value to the Red Sox as trade bait as the centerpiece of a trade with a team needing a catcher and being willing to trade a #2 or #3 pitcher to get that catcher. I could even be persuaded to trade him for a high level pitching prospect (think our EdRod) with a big upside but who's still unproven.

 

What I wouldn't do is give him away for less than he's worth. We're dealing from a position of strength with our younger players now. We've got five - six if you count Brock Holt - of our starting eight being young cost-controlled players at the moment with more in the pipeline. DD is going to be getting the calls and he can show up to meetings with a mask and a gun and get just about what we need for them.

 

Obviously caveats abound (that the bat continues to grow and he grows as a catcher, both at least decent bets):

 

What if it turns out Vasquez can't hit? For real? Maybe the gap between Vasquez and Swihart offensively trails the gap defensively. If that's true, maybe catcher is a true jobshare, where Swihart gets 80-90 starts and then 30-40 in other spots while Vasquez starts. Now Swihart's bat needs to develop for this to happen - but that is entirely possible.

 

The team is very high on Swihart - and they should be. Remember, he played the position it takes the most time to develop, in the big leagues - without any significant AAA seasoning, and turned out to be adequate. That is a tremendous starting point.

[User Name]

Brock Swihart

 

If you were a woman, and not a hipster, I would marry you. (Mostly for my green card, you wouldn't be that pretty)

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Sorry about the typos folks, for some reason this site won't let me edit from my tablet.

[Bellhorn04]

They'll probably be able to unload Clay by july, but Panda is our for the long haul.

He's pretty much untradable untill he gets his act together.

 

I have this odd feeling Buchholz is going to end up with the Cubs. Theo always had a bit of a man-crush on him, and he seems to like having ex-Sox pitchers.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Bellhorn04

[SinceYaz]

What that old saying? "These things usually work themselves out?"

 

I'd rather see Swihart work on catching skills while in AAA, but if the Sox think he'll be of more use as a utility player, so be it.

At the very least, he may be able to replace Young, if he get injured..

 

Or if Young stays below the Mendoza Line....

 

For some reason Rico Petrocelli comes to mind. He didn't catch, that I know of. But I can still recall when they moved him over to third, he became all the more valuable... that was the first time I remember a player being moved from "his" position for the team. It was about the same time that Yaz was being asked to play some 1B ... MUCH to his displeasure. The next year I moved to Florida and lost the intimate touch of the Globe, Herald, and the local radio station coverage.

 

But there is a growing appreciation of the super sub/multiple position player these days. I think that Swihart only proves himself greater and greater value.

[2004Idiot]

Go Sox!

[Kingface]

BOOM!!!!!!!!!! Idiot is here!!!!!!!!!! Keep us updated my friend!!!!

[mvp 78]

@peteabe Carson Smith pitched a perfect inning for AA Portland. 1K, 9 pitches, 6 strikes. Should be activated Tuesday.

[Bellhorn04]

@peteabe Carson Smith pitched a perfect inning for AA Portland. 1K, 9 pitches, 6 strikes. Should be activated Tuesday.

 

I can't believe you put Trade Pedroia in your sig.

[mvp 78]

I can't believe you put Trade Pedroia in your sig.

 

It's my three point plan. Why keep it out?

[Kimmi]

I think that the consideration FOR Swihart is clear. DD isn't casting him off but getting him ready for the reality that he has far more value being a multi-positional player. What Swihart did for us last year was terrific, IMO. He was no where near ready but he showed his aptitude to adjust and learn. If he keeps on with that ability he will be a valuable team player going forward and this time in AAA will be seen as a smart move.

 

I do have a twitchy-ness about DD's itchy trade finger. I join you there. But he has already spared Swihart...now, what to do with Panda and Clay (I am finally losing support for him.)

 

Let me first say that my choice of everyday catcher is and has always been Vazquez. This is nothing against Swihart. As you said, he did a very good job last year when he was nowhere near ready to be called up.

 

That said, my feeling is that if the team, and in particular the rotation, had not been in a mini scuffle at that time, Swihart would not have been sent down that quickly. The Swihart move alone is not an issue. The Swhihart move along with everything else I've seen so far in the Dombrowski era, including the FO's very own admission of a sense of urgency, concerns me in terms of the long term ramifications.

[sk7326]

Let me first say that my choice of everyday catcher is and has always been Vazquez. This is nothing against Swihart. As you said, he did a very good job last year when he was nowhere near ready to be called up.

 

That said, my feeling is that if the team, and in particular the rotation, had not been in a mini scuffle at that time, Swihart would not have been sent down that quickly. The Swihart move alone is not an issue. The Swhihart move along with everything else I've seen so far in the Dombrowski era, including the FO's very own admission of a sense of urgency, concerns me in terms of the long term ramifications.

 

I don't see the panic yet - the panic was much worse in the "between Theo and Dombrowski" time.

 

Vasquez was healthy - so he came in. After that, whatever you did with Swihart - he needed to play. So playing at AAA > not playing in Boston.

[Bellhorn04]

It's my three point plan. Why keep it out?

 

Because it's madness.

[User Name]

Because it's madness.

 

Madness? THIS IS TALKSOX!!!!

[a700hitter]

Pedroia and Ortiz are still the heart and soul of the Red Sox, imo. I think the rest of the guys look at how they do their business and how they conduct themselves. Both have plenty in the tank. I think Pedroia has a good 2-3 top years left, and Papi is definitely going out while he is still an elite offensive force.

[mvp 78]

Because it's madness.

 

I think outside of the box. If that box is named "Sanity," so be it.

[Kimmi]

I don't see the panic yet - the panic was much worse in the "between Theo and Dombrowski" time.

 

Vasquez was healthy - so he came in. After that, whatever you did with Swihart - he needed to play. So playing at AAA > not playing in Boston.

 

On point one, we'll have to disagree. Again, any one move made does not spell panic. The collective moves made, beginning with the firing of Ben, spell panic to me. Call it a sense of urgency if you wish, but that's just semantics.

 

I honestly do not believe that Vazquez would have been called up so quickly if the team were playing better. That said, once Vazquez was called up, sending Swihart down was absolutely the right move.

[Bellhorn04]

On point one, we'll have to disagree. Again, any one move made does not spell panic. The collective moves made, beginning with the firing of Ben, spell panic to me. Call it a sense of urgency if you wish, but that's just semantics.

 

Panic or a sense of urgency are not necessarily bad things. In any event the team seems to be responding well to these moves.

[Dojji]

I honestly do not believe that Vazquez would have been called up so quickly if the team were playing better.

 

What reason would there be not to call CV up ASAP? The team had made no commitment to Swihart as an everyday catcher, and CV represented a big defensive upgrade at catcher. There's no logic to not calling up Vazquez as soon as he was ready.

 

No disrespect to Swihart, but CV is a gold standard in defensive catching. There's no reason to have CV anywhere but in the majors if he's healthy.