Travis Shaw

[Bellhorn04]

Baseball is one sport where some indisputably fat guys have had very successful careers. But Pablo is in grave danger of crossing the line from fat to uselessly obese.

[Dojji]

Right, the problem here is not because Pablo is fat. The problem is that Pablo is clearly out of condition. If he was strong enough to carry his own weight on the field that'd be one thing, but his performance says he clearly isn't, and that's the real issue here.

[jacksonianmarch]

Most of the good "fat" players in baseball were top notch at some skill that didn't require a svelt physique. Wells had a rubber arm and pinpoint command. Ruth had otherworldly hand eye coordination. Papi the same. The point is, neither of these guys had a position that required speed or quickness in their feet. A 3b does. A 3b must be quick off their feet to nab the ball smashed down the line then get up and make the throw. Pablo cannot do it anymore. His weight and age combo is bad.

[Spudboy]

Or Bill Bellicek (sp ).

 

 

I simply do not understand how anyone can doubt that whatever is happening with Pablo is not a direct result of his own efforts or lack thereof.

 

I've stopped calling him names because I no longer wish to be lumped into the "Pablo Hater" group. I am sticking with facts, and reason. To me, his predicament is indefensible.

 

I always like Dick Williams, by the way.

[Spudboy]

Most of the good "fat" players in baseball were top notch at some skill that didn't require a svelt physique. Wells had a rubber arm and pinpoint command. Ruth had otherworldly hand eye coordination. Papi the same. The point is, neither of these guys had a position that required speed or quickness in their feet. A 3b does. A 3b must be quick off their feet to nab the ball smashed down the line then get up and make the throw. Pablo cannot do it anymore. His weight and age combo is bad.

 

It's all common sense.

 

Put the guy under my care for 6 weeks and I can assure you that if he follows my instruction he will be in game shape at the least, and in the best shape of his career at best.

[Kimmi]

Pablo isn't 2014 Pablo anymore. He's oldrr and fatter. The mileage on his body has taken its toll. He looks like avsolute garbage on the field. He'll be given the chance to start, but when he fails, I'm expecting to hear a lot of excuse making for it.

 

But what if he plays like 2014? Isn't the team better off if he is able to do that, rather than having him on the bench?

 

If he fails, I said I would drive his bus out of town, provided he is given a fair chance in regular season.

[mvp 78]

It's higgly unlikely he would play that way. It's more likely that Shaw will out perform him. Pablo will need to make the most of his chances in the early going or he'll be toast.

[Kimmi]

I answered your question.

 

No, you didn't answer my question. You responded to my post, but didn't answer the question.

 

No one has answered the question.

 

Because I'm right.

[mvp 78]

If Pablo plays better than Shaw in April and May, he should be given the job for the rest of the season unless he shits the bed at some point.

[Kimmi]

Even a DH has to keep himself in some kind of shape.

 

I'm sorry Kimmi but it's time to let the Pablo thing go. That back injury on an ordinary baseball play is tied directly to his weight and it just handed Travis Shaw the job whether he's ready or not. Like it or not, Pablo Sandoval just ate his way out of a starting job, all that remains to be seen is if he can work hard and get himself into some kind of shape and be able to retake the job when Shaw is at a low point. It's a done deal that Shaw is going to break camp as our opening day third baseman, and that is exactly Pablo's fault for being so badly out of condition.

 

At this point, when Farrell announced that third base would be a competition it is clear that Pablo wasn't physically ready to compete for the job and when he tried to step it up, he got hurt, which is what happens when you're not ready for a physical competition and you compete anyway.

 

Thank God Shaw has been playing well this spring and gave us a second option, still worried about his defense but he's the only option we have right now so it's time to get behind him and just hope this works.

 

I am going to let the Pablo thing go, not because my opinion has changed, but because everyone's mind is already made up.

 

I do want to clarify a point one more time though, because I don't think most of you understand why I'm defending Pablo. I am not arguing the point that Pablo might not be able to play adequate defense because he is fat. As I said before, that is a fair and valid point.

 

My argument is basically 2 things:

1. He deserves a chance in regular season games to succeed or fail before being crucified.

2. The assumptions made about his character, attitude, and work ethic based on his appearance are unfair.

[Kimmi]

It's higgly unlikely he would play that way. It's more likely that Shaw will out perform him. Pablo will need to make the most of his chances in the early going or he'll be toast.

 

You're still avoiding the question, just as everyone else has.

 

It's a simple yes or no.

[User Name]

1) Unless he loses the weight, it's clear he can't be adequate defensively. See, the beauty of defense is that range and ability remain the same regardless of game type/situation. I think the bat will be there, but he needs to drop the weight to play league-average D. That is what it is.

 

2) His attitude is terrible, not because of assumption, but because of things he has done (or hasn't done). No one's reaching for anything. He has brought this all on himself.

 

I don't get the insistence on defending a guy that, for all intents and purposes, is terrible. He could've dropped the weight, but did not. Could have kept his mouth shut, did not. At some point, it has to become his responsibility and not an universal conspiracy to assasinate his character/deny him a chance to play baseball. It's all him. That's how real life works.

[Kimmi]

One last thing. Here's a quote from Carfardo from yesterday:

 

Having Sandoval be unseated by Shaw at third and sit on the bench would not be a good thing. A few veteran players on the team want Sandoval to keep the job.

 

That settles it once and for all.

 

Carry on.

[User Name]

You're still avoiding the question, just as everyone else has.

 

It's a simple yes or no.

 

No one is answering your question because it's a logical fallacy. A loaded question in this specific case. If Pablo wasn't essentially a stone statue coming off of being the worst regular in MLB, you wouldn't be asking this question, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. He is not 2014 Pablo, therefore, the logical leap needed to answer this loaded question renders it truly illogical.

 

Reformulate the question.

 

"Who would you rather starting, a healthy, effective Pablo, like he was in 2013 and 2014, or an unproven Shaw"?

 

In that case, I'd rather have Pablo, but we all know that is not who he is anymore.

[User Name]

One last thing. Here's a quote from Carfardo from yesterday:

 

 

 

That settles it once and for all.

 

Carry on.

 

That settles nothing.

[a700hitter]

No, you didn't answer my question. You responded to my post, but didn't answer the question.

 

No one has answered the question.

 

Because I'm right.

In a word, the answer is no. My post was just an elaboration of that answer. I guess that slipped by you.

 

And that is taking into consideration that your question is based on a false premise -- that Pablo can turn back the clock 2 or 3 years. Even if he can do that, I like Shaw's upside better.

Edited March 28, 2016 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

One last thing. Here's a quote from Carfardo from yesterday:

 

 

 

That settles it once and for all.

 

Carry on.

This might light a fire under some of the other veterans. Sam Travis is waiting in the wings.

[Elktonnick]

One last thing. Here's a quote from Carfardo from yesterday:

 

 

 

That settles it once and for all.

 

Carry on.

 

Of course they do! If Shaw takes Sandoval's job it means no complacent vet with a fat contract is safe from an upstart rookie who could take their job as well. BTW I am sure there were vets on the Yankees who wanted Wally Pipp to get his job back.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Elktonnick

[cp176]

The fact that Pablo got hurt on an ordinary baseball play doesn't mean much. Guys in great shape get hurt on ordinary plays all the time.

 

According to Bradford, Pablo will be participating in all drills today and plans to play Tuesday. Whether the team has the same plan is another story. But this may not be decided just yet.

 

A good third baseman in decent shape could have backhanded that ball and made the play. His inability to move because of his pathetic fitness level was a major reason for his injury. I said earlier that as he stepped up his level of effort to win the job at third, he was an injury just waiting to happen. The injury was inevitable. I am just sort of surprised that it wasn't a hammy.

[cp176]

Pete, could you imagine if Dick Williams were Sandoval's manager? LOL!! He would put him in a rubber fat suit and bench him until he dropped 20 lbs. And he would rip him worse than anything we are doing here.

 

Or say Jimmy Leyland. Wonder what he is thinking watching this melodrama.

[Spudboy]

This is ridiculous.

 

Kimmi you can't just take your ball and go home because no one agrees with you. You pretty much started and fueled this debate. You have pointed the finger at many of us by saying that we have just decided that Shaw should start because we do not like Pablo or fat people. That is unfair and for the most part not accurate.

 

Once in while you can be wrong. That's okay. Once in a while you can just say that you really don't agree but you do respect our opinions.

 

I, like many here, had been all over Hanley's s*** for months. Not because I do not like the guy. I don't really know him other than what I have seen from him and what I have been told by my Dominican friend. I have always known that Hanley could play effective 1st base. I had decided that It was not likely that he would make the necessary effort based on what I had seen and of course his less than stellar record in MLB.

 

Well, I was wrong. Hanley has made the effort and I have acknowledged it by praising his solid play so far in ST.

 

Pablo has not done that. He deliberately showed up in camp pleasingly plump. This after playing the worst ball of his career. He is not playing well. A BA of .265 in 35 AB is nice, I guess. Not exactly what we have come to expect from him and his yuge contract. He does not play solid D. You keep ignoring these salient facts. It's as if you have decided to ignore the order of operations in order to make the equation give you the answer that you want.

 

Our opinions have validity. You of all people should be able to see this.

 

Also, you say that some vet players will be pissed if Pablo does not start. What of the young guys who are trying to make the team? They see their play as much better than Pablo's and yet he is given another "Chance". Is that fair?

 

Is it fair that all the young guys on the team make about 5% of what Pablo makes while they hit .300, and make highlight reel plays several times each week?

 

And what of Allen Craig? He has put in about two years of effort to resurrect his game. He spent an entire year in Pawtucket without bitching. He makes a fraction of what Pablo makes. Yet even with his dominant offensive game apparently gone, he would likely outplay Pablo right now.

 

Where is all the justice for these guys? Pablo will get his chance, most likely. He does not deserve special treatment. Simply because he has not EARNED it.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Spudboy

[jung]

Or say Jimmy Leyland. Wonder what he is thinking watching this melodrama.

 

Even Buck Showalter if you want to talk about a guy that currently has a job. Would simply look at Pablo...would not have to say a word.....Buck has that Tommy Heinsohn look. Tommy is still the only NBA coach that I can remember being thrown from an NBA game by the ref for nothing more than a look. Did not say a word to the ref. Wasn't even a second technical. Just see ya' Tommy....your gone.

[cp176]

good post from my little Maine cave! sometimes it is just damned good to be wrong. Sadly not many people are good at admitting it. I'm ok with it due my vast experience at being wrong! I really have never been a fan of Hanley ramirez and I'm not quite ready to hand him the keys to the city but I am cheering just as hard as I can for him to succeed. Really - so far so good. I don't label people and as a result I don't like being labelled. Never felt like I really fit any particular mode. For the record - I do have a very difficult time trying to understand (which I do) anyone's vigorous defense of Pablo Sandoval - but I do not hate him. I don't even know him.

[User Name]

I was wrong in thinking that Pablo would turn it around. He wasn't that fat when he was here for the Caribbean series, and that was in January.

[SoxHop]

I was wrong in thinking that Pablo would turn it around. He wasn't that fat when he was here for the Caribbean series, and that was in January.

 

Same here. I think it's because most people can't believe someone is throwing away an opportunity that 99.99% of the world would like to have and would make almost any sacrifice to have the opportunity in life.

 

But..... he's already cashed in millions of his chips. Good for him. Now I hope he turns it around or screws off.

 

Hurts his back diving for a ball.... ok........ maybe.......... yea it could happen to anyone........ but it's going to happen more to the people that didn't prepare themselves.

 

This guy is starting to make me think he is the anti-Rocky Balboa story......

[jung]

Same here. I think it's because most people can't believe someone is throwing away an opportunity that 99.99% of the world would like to have and would make almost any sacrifice to have the opportunity in life.

 

But..... he's already cashed in millions of his chips. Good for him. Now I hope he turns it around or screws off.

 

Hurts his back diving for a ball.... ok........ maybe.......... yea it could happen to anyone........ but it's going to happen more to the people that didn't prepare themselves.

 

This guy is starting to make me think he is the anti-Rocky Balboa story......

 

Absolutely correct....as soon as he arrives back in camp and throughout a baseball season Pablo just gains and gains and gains. On the one hand it seems like the nuttiest thing. But it is entirely consistent for him. I would not at all be surprised if he looks forward to the start of the season BECAUSE he knows it is going to be "Katie bar the gate if you can" and he is just going to really have at it having exercised what must just be some minimal amount of control in the off season.

 

I think Merloni is correct. If Pablo is with the team, traveling with the team but not playing...Lord only knows how much weight he will gain under that exact set of circumstances.

[a700hitter]

good post from my little Maine cave! sometimes it is just damned good to be wrong. Sadly not many people are good at admitting it. I'm ok with it due my vast experience at being wrong! I really have never been a fan of Hanley ramirez and I'm not quite ready to hand him the keys to the city but I am cheering just as hard as I can for him to succeed. Really - so far so good. I don't label people and as a result I don't like being labelled. Never felt like I really fit any particular mode. For the record - I do have a very difficult time trying to understand (which I do) anyone's vigorous defense of Pablo Sandoval - but I do not hate him. I don't even know him.

But it is so much easier for people to disagree with you if they can place you in a box that is the creation of their own misconceptions. Surprisingly, we do not need to adhere to any ideology or philosophy to intelligently discuss to sports.

[SoxHop]

good post from my little Maine cave! sometimes it is just damned good to be wrong. Sadly not many people are good at admitting it. I'm ok with it due my vast experience at being wrong! I really have never been a fan of Hanley ramirez and I'm not quite ready to hand him the keys to the city but I am cheering just as hard as I can for him to succeed. Really - so far so good. I don't label people and as a result I don't like being labelled. Never felt like I really fit any particular mode. For the record - I do have a very difficult time trying to understand (which I do) anyone's vigorous defense of Pablo Sandoval - but I do not hate him. I don't even know him.

 

Makes me proud to be a Mainer.......... there's something to be said about the brain power of the mussels we eat there.....I'd never box a Mainer........ we call it like we see it whatever box we stand on.........

[Bellhorn04]

Pablo has not done that. He deliberately showed up in camp pleasingly plump.

 

I have to say, of all the jokes about Pablo's weight, this one did make me laugh.

[Dojji]

I didn't want to prejudge Pablo, but that doesn't mean there was never going to be a time to judge his effort. Pablo Sandoval's offseason efforts culminated in him playing his way onto the bench. It's the sort of thing that can happen to anyone -- IF they don't take care in the offseason. The responsibility for not taking care is his. He needs to eat the blame for the condition he showed up to camp in and how it affected his ability to do his job. No one else would be able to evade that responsibility, Pablo shouldn't either.

 

It's not about being fat. I actually seem to remember a couple players actually playing their way into the doghouse because they worked out too hard and came into camp so musclebound it affected their mechanics. It's about not showing up ready to do the job you are contracted to do. But either way, when it was time to get to work Pablo was clearly not ready, whether he planned to get back into shape as the season rolled on or whether he just didn't care at all doesn't matter. He was caught absolutely flatfootted by Travis Shaw's powerful challenge to his job this spring and had no ability to respond, and when he tried to respond by upping his game his poor offseason preparation exposed him to injury.

 

That's the bottom line, that's not me casting aspersions on Pablo's character, that's the culmination of what we have seen and can directly observe. And for a professional ballplayer who makes millions and whose #1 offseason job is to be ready for the season, it's absolutely, totally unacceptable. No organization should be willing to tolerate that kind of sloppy work from a highly compensated professional, and any organization receiving that kind of sloppy effort would look elsewhere to get the work done to a standard they find acceptable.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Dojji