Spring training

[sk7326]

Here is the key to Hanley. I remember years ago I'd shake my head watching the dumpster fire that was Manny being Manny in LF and sigh, "Well, at least he can hit."

 

Hanley was a disaster in LF, and more than that - between any effects to confidence and any shoulder issues - he stopped hitting, and stopped seeming to know how to construct an at-bat.

 

I don't expect him to be a good 1B - but I do expect him to be good enough for it to be comfortable for him so he can hit again and be a positive force overall.

[mvp 78]

Manny was fine in LF. He wasn't a dumpster fire. He didn't look like he was hustling, but he was good enough. He was leagues better than Hanley.

[User Name]

http://www.mlbbroadcastingsettlement.com/

 

Interesting.

[Kimmi]

Keeping him closer to the action should keep his mind from wandering. He also has spent his whole life fielding grounders at SS, not fly balls. He should be way better.

 

I have mentioned this as a possibility before. I sure hope that's the case.

[a700hitter]

Manny was like Yaz in LF compared to Hanley. And he hit like Ted Williams and Babe Ruth compared to Hanley.

[Kimmi]

Manny was fine in LF. He wasn't a dumpster fire. He didn't look like he was hustling, but he was good enough. He was leagues better than Hanley.

 

If by "fine" you mean terrible, then yes, Manny was "fine" in LF. He was not leagues better than Hanley defensively. The difference was that Manny was able to hit well enough to overcome his defensive shortcomings.

 

The FO was expecting Hanley to do the same, to likely play below average defense but to hit well enough to overcome the poor defense. Hanley is not the hitter that Manny was, but he should have been able to hit well enough to be a 3 WAR player.

[Spudboy]

If by "fine" you mean terrible, then yes, Manny was "fine" in LF. He was not leagues better than Hanley defensively. The difference was that Manny was able to hit well enough to overcome his defensive shortcomings.

 

The FO was expecting Hanley to do the same, to likely play below average defense but to hit well enough to overcome the poor defense. Hanley is not the hitter that Manny was, but he should have been able to hit well enough to be a 3 WAR player.

 

I don't want to insult you in any way. I am aware that you know your s*** when it comes to baseball. But, how many years have you watched players perform in lf at Fenway?

 

I've been watching since 1966. I've seen some truly terrible left fielding. Really f***ing bad both from the Sox and other teams. Manny was not among the worst and was only occasionally embarrassingly bad.

 

In fact, he made himself into one of the better LF in Fenway that I have seen in certain situations. He learned that wall and it caroms. He could bare hand a ball off the wall and peg it into second very well. Yeah, he did loaf and take some plays off!!! We all seem to remember those plays. But the discerning baseball eyes saw his progress and in some cases exceptional play.

 

Manny had some bad habits and did some really stupid things while with the Sox. But as MVP said, he was good enough. At least when he wanted to be. Hanley never even tried to become good.

 

And yes, being one of the best RH hitters in the game afforded him some latitude.

[cp176]

Manny provided some comic relief for us all throughout the course of his left field tenure. Regardless of how anyone feels about his attitude or his approach to the game, his talent was pretty obvious. Hanley does not compare with him in any way. I hope that Hanley does have a bounce back year but he was by far the worst left fielder that I have ever seen in a Red Sox uniform. Leaving him out there for as long as they did might have been the cruelest joke of all. He has a chance this year to prove to us all that he really is a professional. He should be able to play first base. Looks like he is working at it and he is certainly saying all of the right things.

[Dojji]

I don't want to insult you in any way. I am aware that you know your s*** when it comes to baseball. But, how many years have you watched players perform in lf at Fenway?

 

I've been watching since 1966. I've seen some truly terrible left fielding. Really f***ing bad both from the Sox and other teams. Manny was not among the worst and was only occasionally embarrassingly bad.

 

In fact, he made himself into one of the better LF in Fenway that I have seen in certain situations. He learned that wall and it caroms. He could bare hand a ball off the wall and peg it into second very well. Yeah, he did loaf and take some plays off!!! We all seem to remember those plays. But the discerning baseball eyes saw his progress and in some cases exceptional play.

 

Manny had some bad habits and did some really stupid things while with the Sox. But as MVP said, he was good enough. At least when he wanted to be. Hanley never even tried to become good.

 

And yes, being one of the best RH hitters in the game afforded him some latitude.

 

I don't think it was so much taking plays off as the fact that he seemed to have some bugs in his decision making tree. Most of the time he'd play it normally and then every now and again his concentration would slip, or he'd do something goofy for some reason, like that throw that Damon had to cut off in center field.

 

He wasn't a natural LF, but he did generally try to learn from his mistakes, and he was usually adequate as long as he had a good CF to play with.

[mvp 78]

If Hanley played Manny level defense, he would still be out in LF this spring.

[Kimmi]

I don't think it was so much taking plays off as the fact that he seemed to have some bugs in his decision making tree. Most of the time he'd play it normally and then every now and again his concentration would slip, or he'd do something goofy for some reason, like that throw that Damon had to cut off in center field.

 

He wasn't a natural LF, but he did generally try to learn from his mistakes, and he was usually adequate as long as he had a good CF to play with.

 

If by "adequate" you mean terrible, then yes, he was "adequate".

[Kimmi]

I don't want to insult you in any way. I am aware that you know your s*** when it comes to baseball. But, how many years have you watched players perform in lf at Fenway?

 

I've been watching since 1966. I've seen some truly terrible left fielding. Really f***ing bad both from the Sox and other teams. Manny was not among the worst and was only occasionally embarrassingly bad.

 

In fact, he made himself into one of the better LF in Fenway that I have seen in certain situations. He learned that wall and it caroms. He could bare hand a ball off the wall and peg it into second very well. Yeah, he did loaf and take some plays off!!! We all seem to remember those plays. But the discerning baseball eyes saw his progress and in some cases exceptional play.

 

Manny had some bad habits and did some really stupid things while with the Sox. But as MVP said, he was good enough. At least when he wanted to be. Hanley never even tried to become good.

 

And yes, being one of the best RH hitters in the game afforded him some latitude.

 

I am not insulted, and I will respond to this later. Duty calls.

[a700hitter]

If Hanley played Manny level defense, he would still be out in LF this spring.

It would not have been an issue. Hanley was not only much worse than Manny who had outfield instincts, because he was an Outfielder and who knew his strengths and weaknesses. He did not have a strong arm, but he compensated by releasing the ball very quickly. He also had a very accurate arm. Manny played very shallow in LF and caught a lot of balls that would have dropped in as hits.

[a700hitter]

I don't want to insult you in any way. I am aware that you know your s*** when it comes to baseball. But, how many years have you watched players perform in lf at Fenway?

 

I've been watching since 1966. I've seen some truly terrible left fielding. Really f***ing bad both from the Sox and other teams. Manny was not among the worst and was only occasionally embarrassingly bad.

 

In fact, he made himself into one of the better LF in Fenway that I have seen in certain situations. He learned that wall and it caroms. He could bare hand a ball off the wall and peg it into second very well. Yeah, he did loaf and take some plays off!!! We all seem to remember those plays. But the discerning baseball eyes saw his progress and in some cases exceptional play.

 

Manny had some bad habits and did some really stupid things while with the Sox. But as MVP said, he was good enough. At least when he wanted to be. Hanley never even tried to become good.

 

And yes, being one of the best RH hitters in the game afforded him some latitude.

Hanley was not only much worse than Manny, but he is probably the worst outfielder that I have seen. A close second was Daniel Murphy of the Mets, but the Mets ended that experiment much sooner than we ended the Hanley OF experiment.

[Kimmi]

I don't want to insult you in any way. I am aware that you know your s*** when it comes to baseball. But, how many years have you watched players perform in lf at Fenway?

 

I've been watching since 1966. I've seen some truly terrible left fielding. Really f***ing bad both from the Sox and other teams. Manny was not among the worst and was only occasionally embarrassingly bad.

 

In fact, he made himself into one of the better LF in Fenway that I have seen in certain situations. He learned that wall and it caroms. He could bare hand a ball off the wall and peg it into second very well. Yeah, he did loaf and take some plays off!!! We all seem to remember those plays. But the discerning baseball eyes saw his progress and in some cases exceptional play.

 

Manny had some bad habits and did some really stupid things while with the Sox. But as MVP said, he was good enough. At least when he wanted to be. Hanley never even tried to become good.

 

And yes, being one of the best RH hitters in the game afforded him some latitude.

 

Let me first say that I agree with you that Manny was very good at playing the ball off of the monster and gunning it quickly back into the infield.

 

Outside of that, the only reason why he was "good enough" was because his offense was so strong.

 

This is not meant to be an insult to you or the rest of the posters who are claiming that Manny was much better than Hanley defensively, but you guys are exhibiting a classic case of confirmation bias and other things that are wrong with the "eye test".

 

Hanley was so obviously bad because you could see his bumbles. You could see his misplays. As I said, they were obvious.

 

Manny was nearly as bad defensively, but his weakness fell mainly with his range, and lack of range is not as glaring or as obvious.

 

Also, Manny hit while Hanley didn't. The Sox were mostly winning when Manny played LF while they finished in last place with Hanley playing there last year. Those are huge factors in bias for Manny and bias against Hanley.

 

I know most of you don't have any use for defensive metrics, but years of defensive metrics all saying the same thing, that Manny was a terrible defender, do not lie. Besides that, his terrible defense was usually noticeable just watching the games, even without the stats.

[Kimmi]

If Hanley played Manny level defense, he would still be out in LF this spring.

 

If Hanley hit all season like he hit in April, his left field defense would be tolerated.

[Kimmi]

Hanley was not only much worse than Manny, but he is probably the worst outfielder that I have seen. A close second was Daniel Murphy of the Mets, but the Mets ended that experiment much sooner than we ended the Hanley OF experiment.

 

I guess this is a case where you don't buy into the stats because they don't support what you "see" with your eyes.

[User Name]

But, how many years have you watched players perform in lf at Fenway?

 

 

Are you trying to guess Kimmi's age Spud?

[User Name]

Manny provided some comic relief for us all throughout the course of his left field tenure. Regardless of how anyone feels about his attitude or his approach to the game, his talent was pretty obvious. Hanley does not compare with him in any way. I hope that Hanley does have a bounce back year but he was by far the worst left fielder that I have ever seen in a Red Sox uniform. Leaving him out there for as long as they did might have been the cruelest joke of all. He has a chance this year to prove to us all that he really is a professional. He should be able to play first base. Looks like he is working at it and he is certainly saying all of the right things.

 

Nuh-uh.

 

http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/kevin-youkilis4-540x392.jpg

[cp176]

Nuh-uh.

 

http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/kevin-youkilis4-540x392.jpg

 

Ok - it might be close but I'm not sure you got me on this one but with a flip of the coin I might give it to you.

[a700hitter]

I guess this is a case where you don't buy into the stats because they don't support what you "see" with your eyes.

This is a case where the eyes and the stats tell you that Manny was not a good outfielder, but he was an outfielder and that Hanley was not an outfielder. He was that bad. Any NFL linebacker or punch drunk fighter who never saw a baseball could have played LF at Hanley's level of proficiency.

[mvp 78]

Pablo told the team he'd show up today. He did not.

[a700hitter]

Pablo told the team he'd show up today. He did not.

He was busy knocking off the last 5 lbs.

[User Name]

Pablo told the team he'd show up today. He did not.

 

Plz trade.

[User Name]

Fwiw, Manny had not one, or two, but three, (!) seasons(2004 with -18.3 UZR, 2005 -26.1 UZR and 2006 with statistically worse results than Hanley's stint (-17.8 UZR) as a LF last year

 

Had I had to guess without looking it up, I would have thought 2006 was his absolute worst defensive year in the Majors, since I remember cringing every time he had to catch a ball during The Great Debacle part 1.

[Spudboy]

So Hanley decided to go home to Miami for a few days.

 

That's dedication for you.

[a700hitter]

So Hanley decided to go home to Miami for a few days.

 

That's dedication for you.

is this breaking news?

[Spudboy]

is this breaking news?

 

McAdams reported it earlier today. The Sox said it was okay.

 

Unless someone in his family is sick or something really important the f***ing stiff should be in camp. I realize that he showed up early and does not have to be there. But this is not what any fan wants to see.

 

I want to see him diving on the ground and wiping the dirt off his bloated ass and ego.

 

But it's okay for now because Ernie says they made some progress while he was there.

 

Lol. Okay.

[cp176]

Stories already firing up around these two guys again? the media boys and girls must just hate them. Stirring up all of this angst in us fans (lol). Can't be anything to it. Only could happen in Boston right. give them a break - they are just a couple of misunderstood superstars. On the other hand we got Price (remember we grossly overpaid for him) staying late and doing what he can to be the best teammate he can be. We just need to cut them some slack. We are the ones with the issues here right?

[mvp 78]

It's not just the media that hates them.

 

Also, ST is boring to the point that any little thing is a big deal. These guys need to fill their columns somehow.