The Official Dead Horse Topics Thread

[mvp 78]

What if the Cubbies don't win a WS? What if he starts feeding the monster in the Cubs organization and signs a bunch of questionable contracts that hamstrings them too? Would he still be one of the greatest then?

[Kimmi]

It's a shame that he spent the last 5 years of his time with the Sox not being able to draft or develop starting pitching.

 

Two things had a lot to do with that:

 

1. Their draft position was never that great.

 

2. Their organizational philosophy was to draft the best player available.

[Kimmi]

What if the Cubbies don't win a WS? What if he starts feeding the monster in the Cubs organization and signs a bunch of questionable contracts that hamstrings them too? Would he still be one of the greatest then?

 

I don't believe Lucchino works for the Cubs. That won't be a problem.

[mvp 78]

I don't believe Lucchino works for the Cubs. That won't be a problem.

 

Theo admitted that he fed the monster. You can't blame all of Theo's bad moves on someone else.

[mvp 78]

Two things had a lot to do with that:

 

1. Their draft position was never that great.

 

2. Their organizational philosophy was to draft the best player available.

 

They whiffed on every pitcher drafted. Most MLB starters aren't top draft picks.

[Kimmi]

Theo admitted that he fed the monster. You can't blame all of Theo's bad moves on someone else.

 

Of course he did. I can almost guarantee you that that would not have happened without Larry's influence.

[Kimmi]

Jon Heyman Retweeted John Perrotto

 

early names heard for twins: anthopoulos, byrnes, cherington, ng, woodfork (krivsky, anthony inside)

 

[Jack Flap]

Jon Heyman Retweeted John Perrotto

 

early names heard for twins: anthopoulos, byrnes, cherington, ng, woodfork (krivsky, anthony inside)

 

 

I can see Ben doing a pretty good job with a rebuilding team.

[Kimmi]

I can see Ben doing a pretty good job with a rebuilding team.

 

Absolutely. I am a Cherington fan. I think he is cut from the same cloth as Theo, and IMO, their team building philosophy is spot on. That's not to say that they did not make mistakes, but I think both are very good GMs who could have been even better without the meddling from higher ups.

 

It seems that other organizations have a lot of respect for Ben.

[Bellhorn04]

That would be great if Ben got the Twins job.

[a700hitter]

I hope the Twins hire Ben, because I will not have to worry about them beating us out for good pitchers.

[User Name]

Not with the draft position they will have.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, it finally happened...Paps is no longer the Nats' closer.

[User Name]

Papelblows.

[sk7326]

Cherington and Anthopoulus would be good choices. Anthopolous got a raw deal in Toronto.

 

Cherington had his flaws - but for building an org culture he is a good choice. A lot of really good baseball people in Boston stayed and turned down opportunities elsewhere to work for him.

 

Surprised Jason McLeod not on early list, but you expect he will get added. He has been deserving a ride of his own for a long long time.

[sk7326]

Two things had a lot to do with that:

 

1. Their draft position was never that great.

 

2. Their organizational philosophy was to draft the best player available.

 

He signed Espinoza - a 17 year old who has been compared without laughter to Pedro Martinez. Oh well.

[greenwell]

He signed Espinoza - a 17 year old who has been compared without laughter to Pedro Martinez. Oh well.

 

Pedro was a fluke. I bet at 17 Pedro was compared to a lot of guys with great stuff, that were too small so their body broke down.

[Spudboy]

Cherington and Anthopoulus would be good choices. Anthopolous got a raw deal in Toronto.

 

Cherington had his flaws - but for building an org culture he is a good choice. A lot of really good baseball people in Boston stayed and turned down opportunities elsewhere to work for him.

 

Surprised Jason McLeod not on early list, but you expect he will get added. He has been deserving a ride of his own for a long long time.

 

????????

[notin]

Folk are using the term GM to describe the Chief of Baseball Operations which what a GM's job. used to be. Dombrowski is President of Baseball Operations and has the person with the GM title Mike Hazen working for him.

 

Disturbing? Not at all. It is just evidence that no one was beating down his door to give him a GM job.

 

DD was released from his contract to pursue other opportunities. I realize that this could be a save face explanation provided by the Tigers, but the Red Sox hired Ben's replacement while he was still with the Red Sox. There is no plausible cover story for that. He'd been displaced (if you don't like the word "fired").

 

Dombrowski wasn't hired to replace Ben; he was hired to replace Lucchino. Whether or not Lucchino was fired is up for debate. While he was immensely unpopular, he is also ovet 70 and quite well off.

 

As President of Operations, Dombrowski exercised his prerogative to perform many of the duties normally performed by the GM. This did not sit well with Cherington, who promptly quit.

[moonslav59]

Dombrowski wasn't hired to replace Ben; he was hired to replace Lucchino. Whether or not Lucchino was fired is up for debate. While he was immensely unpopular, he is also ovet 70 and quite well off.

 

As President of Operations, Dombrowski exercised his prerogative to perform many of the duties normally performed by the GM. This did not sit well with Cherington, who promptly quit.

 

Stick around, notin. Your insights are greatly appreciated.

[a700hitter]

Dombrowski wasn't hired to replace Ben; he was hired to replace Lucchino. Whether or not Lucchino was fired is up for debate. While he was immensely unpopular, he is also ovet 70 and quite well off.

 

As President of Operations, Dombrowski exercised his prerogative to perform many of the duties normally performed by the GM. This did not sit well with Cherington, who promptly quit.

Basically, they hired DD to replace LL, and DD decided that Ben had to go? He still got replaced aka fired.

[Spudboy]

Of course the Sox do have a GM.

[Maxbialystock]

While I agree Dombrowski replaced LL, I think these days he doubles as the GM, who is largely invisible. I am not so sure Dombrowski is the right fixer for this team. He signed Price to the 3d or 4th highest annual salary in MLB history, and he is nowhere near that value so far. And he traded Espinoza for Pomeranz, which so far doesn't look that smart. Kimbrel and Ziegler and Young and Hill have sort of worked out, but those weren't big moves.

[moonslav59]

While I agree Dombrowski replaced LL, I think these days he doubles as the GM, who is largely invisible. I am not so sure Dombrowski is the right fixer for this team. He signed Price to the 3d or 4th highest annual salary in MLB history, and he is nowhere near that value so far. And he traded Espinoza for Pomeranz, which so far doesn't look that smart. Kimbrel and Ziegler and Young and Hill have sort of worked out, but those weren't big moves.

 

I think the Kimbrel move was big, because not only did we part with two top 90 prospects (Margot & Guerra) but also 2 others (Allen & Acosta), but almost as imprtant was that we are paying Kimbrel near top FA closer money as well.

 

It's like we signed a FA and lost top prospects.

[Kimmi]

Stick around, notin. Your insights are greatly appreciated.

 

I concur.

[Kimmi]

While I agree Dombrowski replaced LL, I think these days he doubles as the GM, who is largely invisible. I am not so sure Dombrowski is the right fixer for this team. He signed Price to the 3d or 4th highest annual salary in MLB history, and he is nowhere near that value so far. And he traded Espinoza for Pomeranz, which so far doesn't look that smart. Kimbrel and Ziegler and Young and Hill have sort of worked out, but those weren't big moves.

 

As I said in another thread, I can't blame Dombrowski for the underperformances of the players. IMO, he overpaid for Price, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz, but acquiring an 'ace', a closer, and a solid middle rotation pitcher were all necessary. All 3 of those guys should have been upgrades.

 

Were there other routes that Dombrowski could have taken instead of the ones he chose? Probably, but we don't know what those other routes were and how much they would have cost. At this point, it's all speculation and second guessing.

 

All that said, I really think that Cherington should have been given more time to see his vision come to fruition.

[Kimmi]

I think the Kimbrel move was big, because not only did we part with two top 90 prospects (Margot & Guerra) but also 2 others (Allen & Acosta), but almost as imprtant was that we are paying Kimbrel near top FA closer money as well.

 

It's like we signed a FA and lost top prospects.

 

I agree. It was like a double whammy with Kimbrel, an overpay in both prospects and money.

[mvp 78]

I agree. It was like a double whammy with Kimbrel, an overpay in both prospects and money.

 

Not an overpay if ypu saw what happened at the deadline.