The search for an ace

[Meh]

Yeah, as a700 said this package is too low--especially given what they just paid for Kimbrel (a reason I don't love that deal, as far as prospects go). And although I'm one to really hold onto prospects like the ones you listed in most circumstances, Fernandez is the first pitcher since Felix Hernandez back in 2008 who I would break the bank on... or at least consider it. The package to make MIA trade him would need to be an obvious win for them. So Devers (great piece), Owens (okay piece) and a 5-10 prospect wouldn't do it. I think you'd need another piece at the Devers level and then not be discerning about the back-end guys... so Moncada, Devers, Owens and another prospect or two for the Marlins to choose from--maybe keeping Benintendi off limits. Could get more interesting if they included Rodriguez or Swihart (or Vazquez) from the start. Maybe Eduardo, Owens, Devers and Espinoza. That's a LOT of talent but if he's healthy Fernandez is as good as they come considering his stuff and his age.

 

If you remember how Theo tried to entice Seattle to move Felix it was basically "here's our top 20 prospects, choose six". The sox might be able to put one or two guys off limits but not very much.

 

I've been reading trade offers on forums since 2005. I was the admin for one of the largest baseball forums for 2 years. I got to say congrats as you might be the only person on the internet ever to come to the realization that teams won't just hand over their top player for either 12 meh players or one top prospect and 4 c level guys. Moncada, Devers, Owens plus another prospect and maybe Swihart or JBJ depending on the 4th prospect sounds like a legit offer.

[User Name]

I've been reading trade offers on forums since 2005. I was the admin for one of the largest baseball forums for 2 years. I got to say congrats as you might be the only person on the internet ever to come to the realization that teams won't just hand over their top player for either 12 meh players or one top prospect and 4 c level guys. Moncada, Devers, Owens plus another prospect and maybe Swihart or JBJ depending on the 4th prospect sounds like a legit offer.

 

Do you even read this site then? Because half the people here have said they don't think the Sox even have the pieces to pry Fernandez away from the Marlins, let alone acquire him for a weak package. Your post is just meh.

[Meh]

Do you even read this site then? Because half the people here have said they don't think the Sox even have the pieces to pry Fernandez away from the Marlins, let alone acquire him for a weak package. Your post is just meh.

 

Sox have the pieces to get him. Example's post was pretty spot on.

[cp176]

I would trade just about any of our so called young prospects right now for the "right deal or deals". Trading unproven young talent for proven young talent ? Not much of a downside for me there. That being said, I would be hesitant to give away too much for someone whose durability as well as attitude might come with question marks. No question that if he is healthy and could stay healthy, that Fernandez has the goods. There are concerns there though that would make me push a little harder for the free agent market. I still like Price.

[Soxfan83]

Thanks for the input fellas. Ya, that's too much imo. Our scouts are pretty good at finding talent. I'd rather keep our farm. I wonder if DD has his eyes on Price, or Grienke.

[Soxfan83]

Ya I really like Price also. It just bothers me a bit that his playoff record is awful.

[cp176]

Ya I really like Price also. It just bothers me a bit that his playoff record is awful.

 

I get through that pretty well by looking at the number of games pitched and balls thrown during the regular season. He is a horse. You have to get to the big party before you can win it. The addition of Price and some more work on that bullpen and we will at least be heading in the right direction.

[Soxfan83]

I get through that pretty well by looking at the number of games pitched and balls thrown during the regular season. He is a horse. You have to get to the big party before you can win it. The addition of Price and some more work on that bullpen and we will at least be heading in the right direction.

 

I agree. Having a rotation of Price, Buch, Porcello, Erod, and either Miley, Kelly, or Owens would give us a shot. I think Erod will continue to impress and we need a bounceback from Buch.

[a700hitter]

I agree. Having a rotation of Price, Buch, Porcello, Erod, and either Miley, Kelly, or Owens would give us a shot. I think Erod will continue to impress and we need a bounceback from Buch.

 

I just don't know what to make of Buch anymore. Would a bounce back season for him be a good half season or a mediocre almost full season? I just don't know.

[Soxfan83]

I just don't know what to make of Buch anymore. Would a bounce back season for him be a good half season or a mediocre almost full season? I just don't know.

 

Ya I know what you mean. I think the main thing is for him to eat some major innings this year. If he is mediocre but pitches most the year healthy, then I'd be ok with that.

[Dojji]

Count on nothing from Buchholz. His spot in the rotation might as well be filled by a sign saying "This spot reserved for rookie replacement."

 

I just hope Owens is ready to go when (not if) Buchholz falters

[cp176]

I agree with your take on Buchholz. Owens will get a chance but is he going to be the one for us going forward? A solid mid-rotation guy maybe.

[Bellhorn04]

There's an old saying that applies to Buchholz: his 'reputation precedes him.'

 

If another starter had Buchholz's 2015 season (113.1 innings of 3.26 ERA, totally legitimate season-ending injury), we would feel much more upbeat about them.

[Kimmi]

Ya I really like Price also. It just bothers me a bit that his playoff record is awful.

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in his playoff record. Price has shown that he is a very good pitcher and his playoff sample is too small to draw any conclusions from. Playoff performance is not at all a concern for me in deciding whether to sign him or not.

[Kimmi]

Count on nothing from Buchholz. His spot in the rotation might as well be filled by a sign saying "This spot reserved for rookie replacement."

 

I just hope Owens is ready to go when (not if) Buchholz falters

 

I agree that you can't build a rotation depending on him to be an ace or to make it through an entire season. At the very least, he should be able to give Owens the time in AAA to become more seasoned. At best, he can be an ace for the team for a half season or more. As long as Dombrowski gets us our #1, Clay is worth that risk for $13 mil, no?

[Kimmi]

There's an old saying that applies to Buchholz: his 'reputation precedes him.'

 

If another starter had Buchholz's 2015 season (113.1 innings of 3.26 ERA, totally legitimate season-ending injury), we would feel much more upbeat about them.

 

Fair point about Buchholz reputation preceding him. The value in Buchholz' deal is that it's only for one year. If he ends up being the "bad Buchholz", it will be easy enough to eat that contract.

[cp176]

There's an old saying that applies to Buchholz: his 'reputation precedes him.'

 

If another starter had Buchholz's 2015 season (113.1 innings of 3.26 ERA, totally legitimate season-ending injury), we would feel much more upbeat about them.

 

His reputation defines him. I don't expect any transformation. He is ours at least for the time being. I'm going to be hoping for the best. I am going to be a little cautious with my expectations though. When healthy, he has not always pitched like an ace. We have seen flashes of brilliance. I think we take what he gives.

[User Name]

Sox have the pieces to get him. Example's post was pretty spot on.

 

Having them and being able to part with them are two entirely different things. Use common sense.

[mvp 78]

Having them and being able to part with them are two entirely different things. Use common sense.

 

Common sense? What's that?

[GomesBeard]

I find it interesting all the love for Jose Fernandez, while there is a lot of concern about Matt Harvey's arm due to TJ surgery. Harvey pitched a full season last year, and pitched well, with spectacular games thrown in. I think he proved his arm is fine. And since pitchers typically take 2 years to recover, he should be better this year. I like Fernandez a lot, and both having Boras certainly makes that a wash. Fernandez being younger is a benefit, but I haven't seen him pitch enough to be able to judge how he pitches with no stuff - does he battle and scratch his way through? I've seen Harvey pitch a lot and really like him. I think it's more likely you could get him than Fernandez.

[example1]

It's a shame Buchholz hasn't quite lived up to his potential. From a stuff standpoint he's capable of matching anyone in the game. He has always just been frail. When he's pitching and seems comfortable he is like a #1. He could be that again this year. But as others have noted it's just a matter of time until he's injured again. You can't really build a championship around that.

 

For my rotation I like:

 

New Starter

Buchholz

Porcello

Miley

Rodriguez

(Owens)

 

But if someone gets injured, or traded, then Owens would make me perfectly comfortable in there. Kelly in the pen.

[Soxfan83]

It's a shame Buchholz hasn't quite lived up to his potential. From a stuff standpoint he's capable of matching anyone in the game. He has always just been frail. When he's pitching and seems comfortable he is like a #1. He could be that again this year. But as others have noted it's just a matter of time until he's injured again. You can't really build a championship around that.

 

For my rotation I like:

 

New Starter

Buchholz

Porcello

Miley

Rodriguez

(Owens)

 

But if someone gets injured, or traded, then Owens would make me perfectly comfortable in there. Kelly in the pen.

 

Ya I mentioned in another thread about Kelley thriving in the back of the pen. Maybe a 7th inning/ hold type. I like that rotation. Maybe trade Miley and throw Owens as the 5th starter and bump up E-Rod

[Gringo]

Betts cash and prospects for Sale

[Soxfan83]

Betts and Boegarts are off limits for me. Premium position players with good contracts and lot of upside.

[SoxnCycles]

Betts and Boegarts are off limits for me. Premium position players with good contracts and lot of upside.

 

Yup, I think I'd give up JBJ and Swihart before giving up Bogaerts or Betts.

[User Name]

Betts and Boegarts are off limits for me. Premium position players with good contracts and lot of upside.

 

Does Miley owe you money? Why the hurry to get rid of him?

[Elktonnick]

I find it interesting all the love for Jose Fernandez, while there is a lot of concern about Matt Harvey's arm due to TJ surgery. Harvey pitched a full season last year, and pitched well, with spectacular games thrown in. I think he proved his arm is fine. And since pitchers typically take 2 years to recover, he should be better this year. I like Fernandez a lot, and both having Boras certainly makes that a wash. Fernandez being younger is a benefit, but I haven't seen him pitch enough to be able to judge how he pitches with no stuff - does he battle and scratch his way through? I've seen Harvey pitch a lot and really like him. I think it's more likely you could get him than Fernandez.

 

Remember Fernandez is a little more than a year away from TJ surgery which he had in 2014. I believe there is also some question of elbow tendinitis. He'll probably be on some inning limitations. All that being said Fernandez would be a fine pickup but the Sox need to pursue other top notch starters before Fernandez who has too many possible health issues to suit me.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather have Miley than Buchholz.

[cp176]

Price and Grienke in that order for me. I don't think that you go wrong going with either one. I like Price's age, his fastball, and his cockiness. Grienke is just flat out good. The detractors would point to Price's struggles in the post season. Meaningless dribble. You got to get there first. For Grienke, it seems to be about his past issues with anxiety and depression. Some think he could not handle the scrutiny of the Boston press and the Boston fanbase. Joke - they play baseball in a few other fairly raucous places where the press and fans have been known to be just as obnoxious us we can be. He wins a lot more than he loses also. We tend to like guys like that.

[Soxfan83]

Does Miley owe you money? Why the hurry to get rid of him?

 

I dot have anything against Wade. Just think we have to many middle to back of rotation pitchers and think we could get more value from him. I won't be mad if he stays.