The search for an ace

[Dojji]

I would be very much interested in Matt Harvey if I thought the price was right.

[mvp 78]

@redsoxstats: ESPN has a story up: "Harvey-for-Betts would be a good fit for Mets" I have a story up: "Trout-for-Betts would be a good fit for Red Sox"

[jung]

That describes the issue though. Mets dangle Harvey and will end up very likely insisting on either XB or Betts in a deal for Harvey if the deal is going to be with us and I would not even consider either of those guys for anything less than deGrum and I don't really want to go there either.

 

If you can get Harvey for a basket of offerings that maybe include two top prospects, possible one major league talent...fine. But any insistence by the Mets on either Betts or XB for Harvey IMO should be rejected out of hand. Harvey improves the pitching assets here. So Harvey is a fine target.

 

I just think everybody in baseball knows our Achilles Heel and is going to make resolving our issues very painful.

 

Mets infield is so laughably bad that I could believe they would be interested in a package that included Merrero maybe JBJ who is more of an NL fit anyway, Owens because you have to load a pitcher into any deal that is going to get you a pitcher back. Still would take more guys than that.

 

How damaged is Wright? He really has battled injury for a couple of years now. Are the Mets about to have a hole at 3rd and would they consider Panda as part of that package if we paid a bunch of salary? Panda is probably another guy that would welcome a return to the NL. The Mets may laugh any bunch of players that did not include either XB or Betts right off the table for all I know.

 

The vulnerability for the Mets is that they MIGHT think they are good enough to possibly get all the way back next year and are thus interested in guys that they think yield short term AND long term benefit. I actually don't think they are as that team has more holes than a 5 lb swiss cheese.

[Kimmi]

It failed miserably. They could have finished last at half the cost.

 

The short term plan failed miserably the last 2 years. It was unbelievably successful in 2013. The long term plan is right on track.

[Kimmi]

To me all the pieces are there to get a franchise caliber young arm. I would blow some team out of the water. I've seen discussion about the Mets moving one of their starters. Seems like a long-shot. They're ready to win now. I would go hard for a guy like Jose Fernandez from Miami. Owens + Swihart + Bradley for Fernandez? He's only 23 and seems like the kind of pitcher who I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was the best pitcher in the league in 5 years. I mean, what does Miami have going for them? Yes, they have some good young players but they're in no position to hold on to anyone at all costs. "Fine, Owens, Swihart, Bradley, Devers, whatever." Even a deal like this would leave the Sox with pretty good farm system (Moncada, Margot, Benintendi still there).

 

Chris Sale would be another top preference.

 

None of this would preclude them making a big FA splash but I'm not sure it would have to be this year. I'm still pretty intrigued by Stephen Strasburg, who is a FA next year at 28. He may get less than Price does, be younger, and potentially as dominant.

 

There's a good chance none of these guys end up with the Sox, but I just have a hard time believing that Dombrowski will be satisfied with a 30+ year old, $25m year old pitcher as his big acquisition--especially because it will still leave him with more prospects than he can find room for. I don't think they should move Betts or Bogaerts under any circumstances. They have enough resources to get this player without either of them.

 

Solid post Ex1. I read that the Marlins are not happy with Boras and his "butting in" when it comes to how the Marlins plan to handle Fernandez, deepening the rift between the two parties. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but perhaps the Marlins would be more inclined to trade Fernandez due to their frustration with Boras.

[Kimmi]

Can you link this article?

 

Here is the link: https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/11/10/could-red-sox-make-work-with-hanley-ramirez-roster/EHgjm7MpcyILdcbNMlgCdM/story.html

 

And here is the pertinent quote:

 

In speaking to several executives, it’s clear that Ben Cherington will not lack for employment opportunities. The consensus is that many of his moves will pay off long-term for the Red Sox and that several mistakes made on his watch were the product of decisions made above him.

[Kimmi]

Luchinno clearly pulled the trigger on all the bad deals as Cherington brilliantly rebuilt the farm system sans pitchers. Don't you know anything?

 

A few TalkSox members have fatheads of BC on their walls. LOL!

 

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."

 

~Socrates

[Kimmi]

I don't agree that it's irrelevant who wanted Pablo and Hanley.

 

What you're leaving out is the failure of the remade pitching staff. I suspect that is what cost Ben his job.

 

It remains unknown who was behind the Lester low ball fiasco, but IMO, trading for Porcello sounds like a Ben move. If Porcello continues to pitch as badly as he did last year, that one is on Ben.

[Kimmi]

Was reading earlier that Jose Quintana might be a better trade target than Sale. Quintana's numbers are not as good as Sale's, but they are very good nonetheless, and Quintana would come cheaper. Quintana has a very reasonable contract through 2018 with two very reasonable option years. Also, scouts are more confident with his body type over Sale's.

[a700hitter]

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser."

 

~Socrates

who is slandering anyone? You need to look up the definition. Toughen up kid. You personalize everything. You are not the only Ben pom pom waver here.

[a700hitter]

Here is the link: https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/11/10/could-red-sox-make-work-with-hanley-ramirez-roster/EHgjm7MpcyILdcbNMlgCdM/story.html

 

And here is the pertinent quote:

He is happily employed as a Gym teacher. No slam against gym teachers, but it is probably the dream of most gym teachers to be the GM of a professional sports franchise. Just my opinion.

[example1]

Hey E1, how is it going. My recollection is that you live in Seattle. Palodios is now your neighbor. You guys can start your own Seattle Chapter of TalkSox.

 

With regard to your post, I would be thrilled if DD could pull off a deal for Fernandez for either of the packages you suggest. I don't see that happening. Fernandez when healthy may be th best pitcher in baseball. He is definitely top 5, and he is just a baby.

 

Hey a700. I'm in Portland, actually. So won't run into him at the grocery store.

 

I just said Fernandez because he's about the top of the market in my opinion. Is there a better 23 or younger pitcher in baseball? Maybe Syndergaard? Those are the kinds of guys DD should be looking to build around.

 

I'm not convinced the Sox would have to give up Betts or Bogaerts, especially for Fernandez. Syndergaard would probably take Betts because the Mets need offense now, but shouldn't take much more. If he does then it's too rich for my blood. Betts can play 2B and adds a lot of pop for that position. NY can find a CF/OF elsewhere and have a great team. Fernandez, on the other hand, is on a team that has a wide range of needs that the Sox can fill without taking away from their current team. Overall I suspect people are overestimating how many deals would actually require Betts or Bogaerts. Bogaerts especially. The kid has all the makings of a franchise anchor for the next 7-10 years--it's obvious. People outside of Boston realize this. Any team getting hung up and killing a deal because Betts or Bogaerts aren't included deserves to keep losing, given how much talent is behind them and available. I don't really like the idea of Harvey for one of those guys. The Sox can do better, at least in terms of what they give up.

 

I love the talk about Aroldis Chapman. He's pretty much must-watch pitching. If they can move some pieces that aren't critical to the future then they should do it, even if they're not in "win now" mode. If they're having a hard time next year they can trade him at the deadline and probably get a good return. Hell, they got Eduardo Rodriguez for a few months of Andrew Miller.

[example1]

The problem with Cueto is the way the Reds used/overused/abused him the last few seasons. It must have been clear to them that they were not going to try to resign him and they just piled the innings on.

 

There is a very good chance that the next team that signs him pays the price for that in DL time and possible surgical repairs.

 

But our pitching assets are so much of an issue at this point that we really can't afford to be that picky. If we can sign a guy like Cueto and simply overpay without getting raped, he improves our overall pitching asset and we are at a point now where we have to improve there period. If it moves the rock farther down the road without being totally unreasonable, make the deal...,,move on, make the next one.

 

Yes, this is pretty much how I feel. Without a massive payday he'd be a fine addition. Even with pretty big contract I'd roll the dice with him, as long as they trade for another pitcher and go from there. He'd be a damn good #2 and has earned his payday... I might just prefer that the risk of that payday belong to someone else.

[Palodios]

Hey a700. I'm in Portland, actually. So won't run into him at the grocery store.

 

PNW Chapter then?

[SoxnCycles]

who is slandering anyone? You need to look up the definition. Toughen up kid. You personalize everything. You are not the only Ben pom pom waver here.

 

LOL

That's rich.

You put everyone you can't bully on ignore.

 

THAT'S thin-skinned.

[jacksonianmarch]

Back on topic.

 

Everyone must commit here. Who is the "ace" the sox will trot out on opening day this year?

 

I am going with Cueto

[a700hitter]

Hey a700. I'm in Portland, actually. So won't run into him at the grocery store.

 

I just said Fernandez because he's about the top of the market in my opinion. Is there a better 23 or younger pitcher in baseball? Maybe Syndergaard? Those are the kinds of guys DD should be looking to build around.

 

I'm not convinced the Sox would have to give up Betts or Bogaerts, especially for Fernandez. Syndergaard would probably take Betts because the Mets need offense now, but shouldn't take much more. If he does then it's too rich for my blood. Betts can play 2B and adds a lot of pop for that position. NY can find a CF/OF elsewhere and have a great team. Fernandez, on the other hand, is on a team that has a wide range of needs that the Sox can fill without taking away from their current team. Overall I suspect people are overestimating how many deals would actually require Betts or Bogaerts. Bogaerts especially. The kid has all the makings of a franchise anchor for the next 7-10 years--it's obvious. People outside of Boston realize this. Any team getting hung up and killing a deal because Betts or Bogaerts aren't included deserves to keep losing, given how much talent is behind them and available. I don't really like the idea of Harvey for one of those guys. The Sox can do better, at least in terms of what they give up.

 

I love the talk about Aroldis Chapman. He's pretty much must-watch pitching. If they can move some pieces that aren't critical to the future then they should do it, even if they're not in "win now" mode. If they're having a hard time next year they can trade him at the deadline and probably get a good return. Hell, they got Eduardo Rodriguez for a few months of Andrew Miller.

I'd be thrilled to add Fernandez and Chapman. I haven't read or heard any chatter about Fernandez, but the reports are that the Red Sox have genuine interest in Chapman. I have read that Boras and the Marlins are at war regarding Fernandez, so who knows what the Marlins might do.

[mvp 78]

Back on topic.

 

Everyone must commit here. Who is the "ace" the sox will trot out on opening day this year?

 

I am going with Cueto

Cueto.

[mvp 78]

And if they sign Cueto, they should trade for Carrasco too. Edited November 13, 2015 by mvp 78

[cp176]

I like it - they need two - that would look good.

[GomesBeard]

Back on topic.

 

Everyone must commit here. Who is the "ace" the sox will trot out on opening day this year?

 

I am going with Cueto

 

Is Cueto an ace? I'm not sure..... I will say Price. Love to see the 'welcome' text from Big Papi on that one.....

[jacksonianmarch]

Not saying Cueto is an ace. More asking who the opening day starter or the team's "ace" will be for 2016

[Bellhorn04]

Back on topic.

 

Everyone must commit here. Who is the "ace" the sox will trot out on opening day this year?

 

I am going with Cueto

 

I'll go with Cueto as well, and Carrasco by trade.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Back on topic.

 

Everyone must commit here. Who is the "ace" the sox will trot out on opening day this year?

 

I am going with Cueto

 

I'm gonna go bold here and say Chris Sale. If I'm Hahn, I trade Sale this offseason. The franchise is in need of a reboot, and Sale could make that happen. The Sox line up very well with ChiSox on a deal, so I'll go with Sale.

[Palodios]

The most likely opening day starter is Cueto.

 

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Scherzer, Gray, Sale, Carrasco or Price out there either.

[jacksonianmarch]

Scherzer would be an interesting name. The Nats only paid him $15 mil last yr as his back end contract is awful. I was wondering if we would hear his name. I am sure if anyone wanted him and agreed to take on the dead money after the contract, they would have to listen.

[Dojji]

Greinke has the least health concerns. He's the one I want.

[GomesBeard]

Greinke has the least health concerns. He's the one I want.

 

Well, who you want is not exactly the question that Jack asked....

[Bellhorn04]

Scherzer would be an interesting name. The Nats only paid him $15 mil last yr as his back end contract is awful. I was wondering if we would hear his name. I am sure if anyone wanted him and agreed to take on the dead money after the contract, they would have to listen.

 

Scherzer's contract worked out to a present value of something like $27 million per year initially. So far it looks like a fair deal for them. But any team that trades for him will be looking at a higher present value AAV of course.

[Bellhorn04]

Greinke has the least health concerns. He's the one I want.

 

But Greinke has the most mental health concerns. He'll likely be re-signing with the Dodgers.