Dombrowski in Cherington Out

[iortiz]

Theo left Boston for the same reason Ben did. They left a mess.

[a700hitter]

He lauded over him after the Crawford signing.

 

Lol! Yes, I did. Crawford was ahead of Jeter at the same point in their careers for hits, runs etc. His career was on a trajectory easily for 3,000 hits. I didn't know that his skin was so thin, and I never expected him to turn into the dog that he has become. He used to play so hard, and he used to kill us. I liked Theo's off season moves that year and was very vocal about it. If Tito hadn't run a beach vacation camp and they had been somewhat ready to play at the opening bell, I still believe that team would have steamrolled. As it was, it took an epic collapse to lose on the final day of the season.

 

My criticism of Theo that season was that he sat on his hands as the epic collapse was unfolding. I don't think he believed it could happen. It took a worse case scenario to lose that season. With one or two breaks, the collapse doesn't happen. The team played horribly and for the entire month of September every break went against us. Theo didn't plan for the worst case scenario. On the last weekend of the season after it was too late, he was desperately trying to get Bruce Chen and Chris Capuano to start the final games. As with any GM, there are moves that I like and moves that I don't like. The difference is they all go on his record, not mine. Ben made a few moves that I liked, but he stubbornly sat on his hands as obvious problems went unaddressed. That was his biggest fault. He only addressed issues after it was too late. His last set of moves were atrocious and no set of stats or metrics can prove otherwise. I don't care what Panda's WAR was and how that equates with salary. If Ben had any thoughts of getting Hanley, Panda never should have been signed. Just terrible planning. If he couldn't get Hanley, he should have rode it out with Holt at third and he should have used the money to address the real problem -- the pitching.

[mvp 78]

Now that Larry is out of the pitcher, I just hope baseball ops is autonomous enough to make all decisions and not be coerced into flashy signings like Crawford, Hanley, Panda, etc.

 

If Theo didn't leave in a gorilla suit, they wouldn't have made the Beckett/Lowell trade and most likely would not have won in 2007. We really have no idea how much Larry pressured Theo into the 2011 signings. However, Theo has set the Cubbies up for ling term success. Has Ben set up the Sox in a similar manner? That remains to be seen. Ben did great with the MILB rosters, but struggled in putting together a 40 man roster that could compete every year.

 

Honestly, I doubt any GM's are significantly better than all of the others. It's more about organizational philosophy and the size of the checkbook.

[a700hitter]

Now that Larry is out of the pitcher, I just hope baseball ops is autonomous enough to make all decisions and not be coerced into flashy signings like Crawford, Hanley, Panda, etc.

 

If Theo didn't leave in a gorilla suit, they wouldn't have made the Beckett/Lowell trade and most likely would not have won in 2007. We really have no idea how much Larry pressured Theo into the 2011 signings. However, Theo has set the Cubbies up for ling term success. Has Ben set up the Sox in a similar manner? That remains to be seen. Ben did great with the MILB rosters, but struggled in putting together a 40 man roster that could compete every year.

 

Honestly, I doubt any GM's are significantly better than all of the others. It's more about organizational philosophy and the size of the checkbook.

 

I really don't care about the inner workings of the organization or their power structure. I also don't want to peer into the kitchens of my favorite restaurants. I judge the moves for or against the FO. Unfortunately in bad times, the GM has the title that carries the responsibility. Their organizational dysfunction is not my concern. Also, my recollection FO the Beckett deal is that Theo was opposed to it.

[Spudboy]

Lol! Yes, I did. Crawford was ahead of Jeter at the same point in their careers for hits, runs etc. His career was on a trajectory easily for 3,000 hits. I didn't know that his skin was so thin, and I never expected him to turn into the dog that he has become. He used to play so hard, and he used to kill us. I liked Theo's off season moves that year and was very vocal about it. If Tito hadn't run a beach vacation camp and they had been somewhat ready to play at the opening bell, I still believe that team would have steamrolled. As it was, it took an epic collapse to lose on the final day of the season.

 

My criticism of Theo that season was that he sat on his hands as the epic collapse was unfolding. I don't think he believed it could happen. It took a worse case scenario to lose that season. With one or two breaks, the collapse doesn't happen. The team played horribly and for the entire month of September every break went against us. Theo didn't plan for the worst case scenario. On the last weekend of the season after it was too late, he was desperately trying to get Bruce Chen and Chris Capuano to start the final games. As with any GM, there are moves that I like and moves that I don't like. The difference is they all go on his record, not mine. Ben made a few moves that I liked, but he stubbornly sat on his hands as obvious problems went unaddressed. That was his biggest fault. He only addressed issues after it was too late. His last set of moves were atrocious and no set of stats or metrics can prove otherwise. I don't care what Panda's WAR was and how that equates with salary. If Ben had any thoughts of getting Hanley, Panda never should have been signed. Just terrible planning. If he couldn't get Hanley, he should have rode it out with Holt at third and he should have used the money to address the real problem -- the pitching.

 

Yup.

[Dojji]

Lol! Yes, I did. Crawford was ahead of Jeter at the same point in their careers for hits, runs etc. His career was on a trajectory easily for 3,000 hits. I didn't know that his skin was so thin, and I never expected him to turn into the dog that he has become. He used to play so hard, and he used to kill us. I liked Theo's off season moves that year and was very vocal about it. If Tito hadn't run a beach vacation camp and they had been somewhat ready to play at the opening bell, I still believe that team would have steamrolled. As it was, it took an epic collapse to lose on the final day of the season.

 

My criticism of Theo that season was that he sat on his hands as the epic collapse was unfolding. I don't think he believed it could happen. It took a worse case scenario to lose that season. With one or two breaks, the collapse doesn't happen. The team played horribly and for the entire month of September every break went against us. Theo didn't plan for the worst case scenario. On the last weekend of the season after it was too late, he was desperately trying to get Bruce Chen and Chris Capuano to start the final games. As with any GM, there are moves that I like and moves that I don't like. The difference is they all go on his record, not mine. Ben made a few moves that I liked, but he stubbornly sat on his hands as obvious problems went unaddressed. That was his biggest fault. He only addressed issues after it was too late. His last set of moves were atrocious and no set of stats or metrics can prove otherwise. I don't care what Panda's WAR was and how that equates with salary. If Ben had any thoughts of getting Hanley, Panda never should have been signed. Just terrible planning. If he couldn't get Hanley, he should have rode it out with Holt at third and he should have used the money to address the real problem -- the pitching.

 

I really think if he'd gotten neither Hanley nor Panda we'd have seen Bogaerts at third whether he liked it or not, with either Marrero or a big league all glove guy covering short. I'll leave it up to people wiser than I to decide whether or not we would be better off with that configuration, it all depends on whether the shortstop can put up mediocre offensive numbers rather than putrid ones and whether Bogaerts manages to be psychologically fragile enough that he'd actually continue to find ways to fail to hit at third base.

 

Either way I think the team values Holt's flexibility and I don't think his bat (while fine up the middle) would satisfy them at a corner position.

[reYoukilis]

I think they have settled the issue of where XB should play once and for all. In 2014 I was for keeping Drew and keeping XB at third to see if we could replicate 2013 success but once that showed itself to be far from the truth, they put XB back at SS and he has blossomed since then. Trust me, I'm with you, I want the best defense behind the pitching but am satisfied with pretty darn good. Dont mess with pretty darn good. Just get a gold glove caliber third baseman

[Dojji]

Our defense is not pretty darn good. It is pretty darn average in fact.

[sk7326]

Our defense is not pretty darn good. It is pretty darn average in fact.

 

Here is the funny thing - they were among the league's best in 2013 and 2014. And Bogaerts was the CLEAR weak link in the 2014 alignment. And that has improved signficantly. Really, their defensive uh-ness is driven by exactly two positions. Fixing it is not difficult.

[Kimmi]

Here is the funny thing - they were among the league's best in 2013 and 2014. And Bogaerts was the CLEAR weak link in the 2014 alignment. And that has improved signficantly. Really, their defensive uh-ness is driven by exactly two positions. Fixing it is not difficult.

 

Left field has already been fixed. Pablo has been playing much better defense in the 2nd half, more like what the FO expected him to do when he was signed.

 

Hanley at first base next season does concern me though.

[cp176]

Bogaerts is one of the top shortstops in the game today. He has played more games, gotten to more balls, and made fewer errors than almost all of them. We all know that he stays at short. We are not weak up the middle. Since Ramirez has been out, our defense has gotten substantially better. Imagine that. I still think that there is a pretty fair chance that he will not be with us next season.

[Kimmi]

Bogaerts is one of the top shortstops in the game today. He has played more games, gotten to more balls, and made fewer errors than almost all of them. We all know that he stays at short. We are not weak up the middle. Since Ramirez has been out, our defense has gotten substantially better. Imagine that. I still think that there is a pretty fair chance that he will not be with us next season.

 

If Hanley cannot play first base decently, he would pretty much have to be traded. What else are the Sox going to do with him? It's a shame too, because I think he's going to turn it around with his bat.

[Spudboy]

If Hanley cannot play first base decently, he would pretty much have to be traded. What else are the Sox going to do with him? It's a shame too, because I think he's going to turn it around with his bat.

 

Just very bad planning by the Sox.

 

He was already a poor defender with health issues. Now his bat is dead. He is of no use at all unless he is league average at 1st and can hit about .290/340 +.

 

He will suck at 1st.

 

Move his ass.

[Kimmi]

Just very bad planning by the Sox.

 

He was already a poor defender with health issues. Now his bat is dead. He is of no use at all unless he is league average at 1st and can hit about .290/340 +.

 

He will suck at 1st.

 

Move his ass.

 

I still don't think it was poor planning. It was a good plan that went very bad on both the offensive and defensive fronts. He should have been capable of playing a decent LF, and he should be one of the best hitters in baseball.

[Spudboy]

I agree that he should have hit well.

[reYoukilis]

I still don't think it was poor planning. It was a good plan that went very bad on both the offensive and defensive fronts. He should have been capable of playing a decent LF, and he should be one of the best hitters in baseball.

Even if he was up to par, the outfield was too crowded and we could have used that for pitching. What good is hitting if we give any lead we may have had up because we have no bullpen. Also why should he have been a good outfielder, nothing in his past suggests that.

[a700hitter]

Even if he was up to par, the outfield was too crowded and we could have used that for pitching. What good is hitting if we give any lead we may have had up because we have no bullpen. Also why should he have been a good outfielder, nothing in his past suggests that.

 

Because history shows that major league outfielders with all their limbs shouldn't be as bad as Hanley. Of course every other major league outfielder has lots of outfield experience and scouting before they put him in the OF. They don't just pluck a guy with no experience and plop him out there.

 

It was negligence period.

[sk7326]

Even if he was up to par, the outfield was too crowded and we could have used that for pitching. What good is hitting if we give any lead we may have had up because we have no bullpen. Also why should he have been a good outfielder, nothing in his past suggests that.

 

Because LF is an easy position - players hit fly balls to shortstops allegedly, and guys have gone from the middle infield to the outfield before (Yount, Biggio, Chipper Jones a few). He also played a little CF many years ago at AAA when the Sox were trying to figure out how to unblock him. He was remarkably bad in LF - and combine that with his poor offense, you can't make a Ryan Klesko-esque case for him.

[Kimmi]

Even if he was up to par, the outfield was too crowded and we could have used that for pitching. What good is hitting if we give any lead we may have had up because we have no bullpen. Also why should he have been a good outfielder, nothing in his past suggests that.

 

I wasn't expecting him to be a good outfielder, but I was expecting him to be decent, meaning that his offense would be good enough to overcome whatever defensive shortcomings he would have. You're taking an athlete who could play SS well enough not to be an overall liability to his team, and moving him to one of the easiest positions on the defensive spectrum. You would expect see an improvement, or at the very least not see any dropoff from where he was.

[a700hitter]

Ruben Amaro Out As Phillies GM

By Steve Adams [september 10, 2015 at 11:16am CDT]

 

The Phillies announced today that they will not extend the contract of general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. According to a team press release, assistant GM Scott Proefrock will take over as interim GM, effective immediately. The team’s search for a new, permanent GM begins today, per the release.

 

 

“It’s never an easy decision to make a change,” said president-to-be Andy MacPhail in the press release. “Ruben has had a direct impact on some of the best years in the team’s history. He helped to create some great memories for Phillies fans with his accomplishments, but in order to return to a top-contending club, we believe this is the right thing to do as we continue the rebuilding process.”

 

The writing has been on the wall for quite some time that Amaro’s days as GM were numbered. It’s been widely expected that in the wake of the team’s collapse over the past four seasons, MacPhail would seek to hire a new GM to guide the Phillies — possibly one that will bring a stronger commitment to analytics to the organization.

 

Amaro, 50, has been the Phillies’ general manager since the 2008 offseason, when he succeeded Pat Gillick. The Phillies made a World Series run in Amaro’s first full year as GM, ultimately coming up short to the Yankees, and went on to reach the postseason in the 2010 and 2011 campaigns as well. However, a number of the trades made by Amaro that were aimed at keeping the team in contention served, instead, to only deplete the farm system while failing to pay significant on-field dividends. Some of the more notable names moved in his time as GM include Carlos Carrasco, Travis d’Arnaud, Jarred Cosart, J.A. Happ, Vance Worley, Trevor May, Domingo Santana and Jon Singleton.

 

While Amaro does deserve some credit for acquiring Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee without surrendering any players that have, to this point, gone on to stardom (some would suggest that Carrasco is well on his way — an argument I’d support), it can also be said that he committed too strongly to an aging core when seeking younger alternatives would have been more prudent. Specifically, the Ryan Howard contract and Carlos Ruiz signings stand out as missteps that are still haunting the team (with Howard’s $125MM extension serving as perhaps the most egregious error of his tenure). Ruiz, Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley all could have been allowed to hit free agency (or been traded in the final season of their previous contracts) but were instead re-signed to deals that ultimately carried negative value. The Phillies have also traditionally not been significant spenders on the international front, although that’s begun to change in recent signing periods (including this summer’s $4MM investment in 16-year-old Dominican slugger Jhailyn Ortiz).

 

In fact, there’s little denying that the Phillies’ farm system as a whole has improved substantially over the past few seasons with Amaro at the helm. J.P. Crawford and Aaron Nola both look to be outstanding top picks, and farmhand Ken Giles has emerged as one of the best young relievers in all of baseball. Maikel Franco looks like a star in the making at third base and should be considered a feather in the cap for Phillies’ international scouts. Trades of several veterans have netted arms such as Ben Lively, Tom Windle, Zach Eflin, Jake Thompson, Jerad Eickhoff, Alec Asher and Nick Pivetta, while position prospects such as Jorge Alfaro, Nick Williams and Darnell Sweeney have entered the picture as well. Odubel Herrera may be the best pick from this past Rule 5 Draft as well.

 

Although that restocking of the farm system falls under the “too little, too late” category for Amaro, it does help to create an appealing job opening for prospective general managers. The Phillies boast a rising farm system, a well-respected president in MacPhail, an excellent 2016 draft position and significant payroll capacity. Beyond that, there are no commitments on the books beyond the 2017 season, save for a $2MM buyout on Matt Harrison‘s club option. As such, the Phillies GM vacancy figures to be a highly appealing position despite the club’s lack of recent success.

 

With the Phillies now in the hunt for a GM, that creates five such openings around the league. The Angels, Mariners, Red Sox and Brewers are all on the hunt for new general managers as well, meaning there will be a significant amount of baseball operations changes in the coming months. Not only will each team employ a new GM, but those five newly minted executives will undoubtedly have some changes in store for the baseball operations departments and the field staffs which they’ll inherit upon taking their new roles.

 

I wonder which of the deposed GMs will find new GM positions for next season.

[Bellhorn04]

I would guess that Cherington is a more attractive commodity than Amaro right now.

[dupree]

I just wonder who would want to be our GM when they know that Dombrowski is gonna make most of the calls and the final say?

 

I thought that this would be an extremely sought after GM job but the more I think about it the more I think that most people don't want to have someone over their shoulder making all the calls and they just have a title of GM. I'd say we get an internal option without a lot of GM experience or a close friend of DD who don't care to be a scapegoat in the whole messed up Boston FO next year.

 

If Boston comes out of the gate next year struggling, no matter the offseason moves, the media will call for DD's head and not mention the GM. And I think that everyone on this forum knows that and everyone applying for the Red Sox GM knows that. It will be interesting to see who takes the job.

[a700hitter]

I just wonder who would want to be our GM when they know that Dombrowski is gonna make most of the calls and the final say?

 

I thought that this would be an extremely sought after GM job but the more I think about it the more I think that most people don't want to have someone over their shoulder making all the calls and they just have a title of GM. I'd say we get an internal option without a lot of GM experience or a close friend of DD who don't care to be a scapegoat in the whole messed up Boston FO next year.

 

If Boston comes out of the gate next year struggling, no matter the offseason moves, the media will call for DD's head and not mention the GM. And I think that everyone on this forum knows that and everyone applying for the Red Sox GM knows that. It will be interesting to see who takes the job.

 

I am available to take the open puppet position.

[Kimmi]

I just wonder who would want to be our GM when they know that Dombrowski is gonna make most of the calls and the final say?

 

I thought that this would be an extremely sought after GM job but the more I think about it the more I think that most people don't want to have someone over their shoulder making all the calls and they just have a title of GM. I'd say we get an internal option without a lot of GM experience or a close friend of DD who don't care to be a scapegoat in the whole messed up Boston FO next year.

 

If Boston comes out of the gate next year struggling, no matter the offseason moves, the media will call for DD's head and not mention the GM. And I think that everyone on this forum knows that and everyone applying for the Red Sox GM knows that. It will be interesting to see who takes the job.

 

I have been wondering why there is even a need to hire a GM. Dombrowski is the GM, plain and simple, so why spend money on someone to hold a position in title only?

 

You're probably right. It will either be a good friend of Dombrowski's or someone promoted from within. I've been hearing Hazen's name lately.

[Kimmi]

I like what Dombrowski has done so far in terms of the FO realignment. I was afraid he would go too far in the old school direction, but so far, that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I also like that he seems committed to Castillo, JBJ, and Betts in the outfield.

 

I have my concerns about him, and it remains to be seen what he does this offseason, but so far, so good.

[Spudboy]

He has done nothing to like or dislike so far.

 

Except for possibly hastening the removal of Hanley from lf.

[SoxHop]

Didn't DD just promote some of the scouting squad to top levels?

 

Isn't the scouting squad the major problem with this organization????

[SoxHop]

Let me find that article....

[sk7326]

Didn't DD just promote some of the scouting squad to top levels?

 

Isn't the scouting squad the major problem with this organization????

 

The team has an elite farm system - amateur and pro scouting have been among the league's best (and the staff has been kept together largely). The org is going to have at minimum four Top 50 prospects (Margot, Devers, Moncada, Espinoza) and at least three of them in the Top 20 or higher. And Johnson, Travis and Guerra will all be on somebody's Top 100. The scouting and development have produced four or five guys who'll be starting next season for this team.

[SoxnCycles]

The team has an elite farm system - amateur and pro scouting have been among the league's best (and the staff has been kept together largely). The org is going to have at minimum four Top 50 prospects (Margot, Devers, Moncada, Espinoza) and at least three of them in the Top 20 or higher. And Johnson, Travis and Guerra will all be on somebody's Top 100. The scouting and development have produced four or five guys who'll be starting next season for this team.

 

Cue the "but they haven't developed a decent pitcher since Lester" replies...