JBJ: Part of the 2016 Sox plan or do you trade him to rebuild the pitching?

[mvp 78]

What is the grounds for their suspicion? Are they just saying it because he is playing well?

 

Basically. "He never slugged over .375 in a month before!!!"

 

Garbage.

[a700hitter]

Basically. "He never slugged over .375 in a month before!!!"

 

Garbage.

That is very irresponsible. Crap like that has a way of sticking and following a player.

[Bellhorn04]

Basically. "He never slugged over .375 in a month before!!!"

 

Garbage.

 

I'm surprised I haven't heard more about this. I guess radio *******s can get away with more s*** than *******s who put their stuff in print.

[Orange Juiced]

A rotation of Cueto-Rodriguez-Shields-Miley-Porcello backed up by Owens/Wright/Johnsonn sounds decent to me.

 

Whither Buchholz?

[Orange Juiced]

That is very irresponsible. Crap like that has a way of sticking and following a player.

 

First thought: Totally agree, 700. It's an outrageous thing to speculate about with zero evidence.

 

Second thought: JBJ's emergence (is it real?) and Hanley's pending move to 1b (yes!) really solves virtually all the Red Sox' position player issues in one fell swoop. Castillo/Betts/JBJ in the OF, Hanley/Pedroia/Bogaerts/Panda in the IF, Vazquez/Swihart/Hanigan combo at C. Tons of flexibility and athleticism. Hugely improved defense. And, frankly, improved offense as well. The team is now 3rd in MLB in runs scored (112 behind MLB leader Toronto), and 3rd in MLB in runs scored post-all star break (just 2 behind MLB leader Toronto).

 

2016 Player Positions

C - Swihart, Vazquez

IF - Hanley (1b), Pedroia (2b), Bogaerts (SS), Sandoval (3b), Holt (IF), Shaw (1b/3b)

OF - Castillo (LF), Betts (CF), Bradley (RF)

DH - Ortiz

 

All you need is a backup OF. After all, all three OF guys can play any of the three OF positions, so there's tons of flexibility there. Holt can play anywhere. Shaw can play either corner position (and perhaps LF in a pinch). There's power (Ortiz, Hanley can hit 25+; Shaw, Pedroia, Betts, Bradley can hit perhaps 15+). There's speed (Betts, Castillo, JBJ, Pedroia, even Holt and Swihart). There's outstanding defense (Swihart, Vazquez, Betts, Bradley, Bogaerts, Pedroia).

 

This allows them to invest their offseason resources on pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

[Kimmi]

I see them going hard after Johnny Cueto this offseason. It's the most rational possible move in my honest opinion.

 

I think that the move to deal Betts for pitching would be misguided on two fronts. First of all we don't have an athlete that can do what Betts has the potential to do, to replace him. Secondly, as Jacko alluded to, Betts hasn't reached his full value yet and won't solve the pitching problem by himself. I think moving Betts this offseason would be selling low. Trading him will see him have his best years in another uniform and that's the last thing we want.

 

That said, I would target Cueto in the offseason and look to possibly pick up a high quality inning burner. James Shields wasn't the ace we needed last offseason, but he'd make a fantastic #2 if we could get him off the Padres, which I doubt. Either way we need one more deep innings guy to keep the pressure off the rookies, however we can get him.

 

I have my reservations about signing Cueto to the huge contract that he will command, but outside of that, I agree with this post. My preference would be making a trade for a young, cost-controlled pitcher, but obviously, you have to give to get. I do not want trade Betts. I don't like the idea of trading JBJ or Swihart either, though that would be less of a tough pill to swallow than losing Betts.

[Kimmi]

First thought: Totally agree, 700. It's an outrageous thing to speculate about with zero evidence.

 

Second thought: JBJ's emergence (is it real?) and Hanley's pending move to 1b (yes!) really solves virtually all the Red Sox' position player issues in one fell swoop. Castillo/Betts/JBJ in the OF, Hanley/Pedroia/Bogaerts/Panda in the IF, Vazquez/Swihart/Hanigan combo at C. Tons of flexibility and athleticism. Hugely improved defense. And, frankly, improved offense as well. The team is now 3rd in MLB in runs scored (112 behind MLB leader Toronto), and 3rd in MLB in runs scored post-all star break (just 2 behind MLB leader Toronto).

 

2016 Player Positions

C - Swihart, Vazquez

IF - Hanley (1b), Pedroia (2b), Bogaerts (SS), Sandoval (3b), Holt (IF), Shaw (1b/3b)

OF - Castillo (LF), Betts (CF), Bradley (RF)

DH - Ortiz

 

All you need is a backup OF. After all, all three OF guys can play any of the three OF positions, so there's tons of flexibility there. Holt can play anywhere. Shaw can play either corner position (and perhaps LF in a pinch). There's power (Ortiz, Hanley can hit 25+; Shaw, Pedroia, Betts, Bradley can hit perhaps 15+). There's speed (Betts, Castillo, JBJ, Pedroia, even Holt and Swihart). There's outstanding defense (Swihart, Vazquez, Betts, Bradley, Bogaerts, Pedroia).

 

This allows them to invest their offseason resources on pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

 

I have said many times that this team is not far off from contending next season, and that the position players are more or less set. If Hanley can miraculously be decent at 1B (and I have my doubts), then that could solve a lot of question marks.

 

Having an OF of Betts, JBJ, and Castillo no doubt improves the OF defense. I personally would try to re-sign De Aza as the 4th OF.

 

Pablo is showing signs of being the competent defender that he's always been. I do worry about Hanley at 1B though.

 

I don't think we'll see a duo of Vazquez/Swihart behind the plate. IMO, Hanigan will and should be the back up catcher. Swihart could be moved to 1B if the Hanley at 1B experiment doesn't work, or if one of either Hanley or Pablo is traded.

 

As you said, the FO needs to focus its resources this offseason on pitching.

[reYoukilis]

First thought: Totally agree, 700. It's an outrageous thing to speculate about with zero evidence.

 

Second thought: JBJ's emergence (is it real?) and Hanley's pending move to 1b (yes!) really solves virtually all the Red Sox' position player issues in one fell swoop. Castillo/Betts/JBJ in the OF, Hanley/Pedroia/Bogaerts/Panda in the IF, Vazquez/Swihart/Hanigan combo at C. Tons of flexibility and athleticism. Hugely improved defense. And, frankly, improved offense as well. The team is now 3rd in MLB in runs scored (112 behind MLB leader Toronto), and 3rd in MLB in runs scored post-all star break (just 2 behind MLB leader Toronto).

 

2016 Player Positions

C - Swihart, Vazquez

IF - Hanley (1b), Pedroia (2b), Bogaerts (SS), Sandoval (3b), Holt (IF), Shaw (1b/3b)

OF - Castillo (LF), Betts (CF), Bradley (RF)

DH - Ortiz

 

All you need is a backup OF. After all, all three OF guys can play any of the three OF positions, so there's tons of flexibility there. Holt can play anywhere. Shaw can play either corner position (and perhaps LF in a pinch). There's power (Ortiz, Hanley can hit 25+; Shaw, Pedroia, Betts, Bradley can hit perhaps 15+). There's speed (Betts, Castillo, JBJ, Pedroia, even Holt and Swihart). There's outstanding defense (Swihart, Vazquez, Betts, Bradley, Bogaerts, Pedroia).

 

This allows them to invest their offseason resources on pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

 

I just dont want to trade our future away to do so. If we don't use Hanley or Sandoval that's what we'll end up doing. That or just buying our way to success, which doesn't seem to work any more either. Look at the difference between the ones who try to buy their way to success (Dodgers, Angels, Nationals) and the ones who do it from within (Giants, Royals, Astros, Cardinals).

[Orange Juiced]

I just dont want to trade our future away to do so. If we don't use Hanley or Sandoval that's what we'll end up doing. That or just buying our way to success, which doesn't seem to work any more either. Look at the difference between the ones who try to buy their way to success (Dodgers, Angels, Nationals) and the ones who do it from within (Giants, Royals, Astros, Cardinals).

 

Well the Sox, in the configuration I suggest, would have a TON of homegrown talent. Adding a premier FA starter (like Price) and then a secondary guy wouldn't really change the "this team is loaded with homegrown players" theme.

[reYoukilis]

Well the Sox, in the configuration I suggest, would have a TON of homegrown talent. Adding a premier FA starter (like Price) and then a secondary guy wouldn't really change the "this team is loaded with homegrown players" theme.

 

Yes and they are the few bright spots we have, not the acquisitions, I hope the Sox realize that and keep that prospect pipeline going. I must say I am wary of Dombrowskis ways from looking at the Tigers and Marlins. He seems like a sell the farm for instant gratification type of person and putting Hanley at first is not changing my mind

[Kimmi]

Yes and they are the few bright spots we have, not the acquisitions, I hope the Sox realize that and keep that prospect pipeline going. I must say I am wary of Dombrowskis ways from looking at the Tigers and Marlins. He seems like a sell the farm for instant gratification type of person and putting Hanley at first is not changing my mind

 

I'm a little wary of Dombrowski as well. We'll have to wait to see what he actually does this offseason, but I will not be happy if he dismantles the farm.

[Bellhorn04]

Dombro is saying the right things so far. He wants to move Hanley to first and he likes the idea of a Betts/JBJ/Castillo outfield next year.

[sk7326]

I'm a little wary of Dombrowski as well. We'll have to wait to see what he actually does this offseason, but I will not be happy if he dismantles the farm.

 

I think he will do what ownership tells him - if they want him to make that tradeoff he will. I am going to give him some leeway since he did not do that at Miami or (stepping into the wayback machine) Montreal.

[Kimmi]

Dombro is saying the right things so far. He wants to move Hanley to first and he likes the idea of a Betts/JBJ/Castillo outfield next year.

 

I love the idea of a Betts/JBJ/Castillo outfield. The idea of Hanley at first, not so much. I am sure he can handle the position physically. It's mentally that I'm concerned with. He just doesn't seem to have the focus to be in the game 100% of the time.

 

That said, if they are going to try it, now is the time to do. If it works out, it would solve both our OF and our 1B questions for next year.

[Kimmi]

I think he will do what ownership tells him - if they want him to make that tradeoff he will. I am going to give him some leeway since he did not do that at Miami or (stepping into the wayback machine) Montreal.

 

Ownership ultimately gets to make the decisions, but I am concerned that Dombrowski will have a lot of influence on their opinions. As you said, Dombrowski gets the benefit of the doubt for now. He may do a very good job.

[Kimmi]

Dombro is saying the right things so far. He wants to move Hanley to first and he likes the idea of a Betts/JBJ/Castillo outfield next year.

 

Dombrowski has stated that if Buchholz is healthy, picking up his option is an easy decision. Score 1 point for him.

[Spudboy]

Dombrowski has stated that if Buchholz is healthy, picking up his option is an easy decision. Score 1 point for him.

 

Never the less he could still trade Buch.

 

Although there will be no evidence other than a physical that Buch is healthy enough to trade for.

[Behindenemylines]

Never the less he could still trade Buch.

 

Although there will be no evidence other than a physical that Buch is healthy enough to trade for.

 

Looks like Buchholz is going to be shut down for the rest of 2015. Hard to trade him if he doesn't pitch and show he is healthy. My prediction is he goes into spring training with the team.

[a700hitter]

Never the less he could still trade Buch.

 

Although there will be no evidence other than a physical that Buch is healthy enough to trade for.

If Buch at $13 million is a good value, it stands to reason that he would be a valuable trade chip too. I am sick of his part time job status. Get him healthy and get rid of him immediately. Don't wait to let him build trade value, because he will get another 2-4 month tweak before you pull the trigger on a trade. Edited August 29, 2015 by a700hitter

[Orange Juiced]

If Buch at #13 million is a ood value, it stands to reason that he would be a valuable trade chip too. I am sick of his part time job status. Get him healthy and get rid of him immediately. Don't wait to let him build trade value, because he will get another 2-4 month tweak before you pull the trigger on a trade.

 

I'm with you. I know it will leave a hole in the rotation, but he's proven to be too inconsistent in both performance and health to rely on year-in and year-out. When he's healthy and on, he's incredible. But that's not something you can count on. So I'd look to deal him. Heck, I was saying they should have dealt him this year before he got hurt. He was pitching very well and his contract was looking good. And then......boom. Down again.

[Kimmi]

Never the less he could still trade Buch.

 

Although there will be no evidence other than a physical that Buch is healthy enough to trade for.

 

He could still trade Buchholz, but seeing as how Buchholz won't pitch again this season, I think that will be difficult to do unless he sells really low on him. I don't see the point of doing that.

[Kimmi]

I'm with you. I know it will leave a hole in the rotation, but he's proven to be too inconsistent in both performance and health to rely on year-in and year-out. When he's healthy and on, he's incredible. But that's not something you can count on. So I'd look to deal him. Heck, I was saying they should have dealt him this year before he got hurt. He was pitching very well and his contract was looking good. And then......boom. Down again.

 

You can't rely on him to give you a full season. This is why you keep Owens in the pen. Also, Buchholz should not be counted on to be the ace of the staff. Dombrowski has to sign or trade for another pitcher to be the staff ace.

[Behindenemylines]

Another double for Bradley today as he pitch hit. As happy as most are to see him hit, very surprised of the power. Its good to see.

[cp176]

Another double for Bradley today as he pitch hit. As happy as most are to see him hit, very surprised of the power. Its good to see.

 

It might be time to move him up in the batting order and assume that this is the JbJ that we all have been waiting for. Also, great to see Swihart steadily becoming a good big league hitter.

[mvp 78]

Lovullo is moving JBJ to CF, Betts to RF.

 

No more OF for Hanley.

 

JBJ is sticking around apparently.

[Kimmi]

Lovullo is moving JBJ to CF, Betts to RF.

 

No more OF for Hanley.

 

JBJ is sticking around apparently.

 

Let's hope his hitting sticks around.

 

If it does, this could be an awesome outfield for years to come.

[Spudboy]

I don't see any value in the De Aza trade.

 

The Sox got an ineffectual Low A pitcher.

 

How does that help now Dave?

[mvp 78]

I don't see any value in the De Aza trade.

 

The Sox got an ineffectual Low A pitcher.

 

How does that help now Dave?

Why do they need help now? I thought DeAza was gone at the end of the year anyway?

[Spudboy]

Why do they need help now? I thought DeAza was gone at the end of the year anyway?

 

My point is if there was a need to trade him now what for ( why ) and how is this of benifit to the Sox going forward?

 

I would like to have seen De Aza back next year as the #4 OF.

 

Whatever.

 

And yes, I am aware of Brock Holt.

[mvp 78]

They can re-sign him this winter if they want to.