2016 Red Sox Hot Stove Discussion Thread

[a700hitter]

It's interesting that on the one hand Henry said that the Sox relied too heavily on numbers, then on the other hand he said that the Sox weren't as much into analytics as most people thought.

It's not contradictory at all.

[mvp 78]

It's interesting that on the one hand Henry said that the Sox relied too heavily on numbers, then on the other hand he said that the Sox weren't as much into analytics as most people thought.

 

He clarified it by saying they paid too much to previous performance and struggled with projecting future performance.

[cp176]

No one has ever said otherwise.

 

 

thank you I guess - I wasn't being accusatory just making a statement. You have been very outspoken in your beliefs, I have not. If you are saying that you believe in a healthy balance then I think that is great. Quite possibly I have misunderstood your feelings about the role advanced metrics play. I have gotten the impression that you have have placed far more value on them than i certainly have. I am very pleased that our primary owner believes that moderation and balance are very important.

[User Name]

Henry is an expert at speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He should shut said mouth, and open the checkbook. Letting Theo go because of his attachment to Lucchino is the worst move he ever made.

[Spudboy]

Henry is an expert at speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He should shut said mouth, and open the checkbook. Letting Theo go because of his attachment to Lucchino is the worst move he ever made.

 

Amen. I have no respect for him.He makes my skin crawl.

[SoxHop]

Seeing people claim there is a lot of pressure on this team to do well early, especially Farrell. Putting pressure on players doesn't seem to be Farrell's managing style.

 

I'm interested in seeing how this goes down and wonder if the sense of a needed fast start will effect the team at all.

[Spudboy]

Seeing people claim there is a lot of pressure on this team to do well early, especially Farrell. Putting pressure on players doesn't seem to be Farrell's managing style.

 

I'm interested in seeing how this goes down and wonder if the sense of a needed fast start will effect the team at all.

 

 

This is something I wonder about for sure.

 

Things could turn to s*** very quickly if they don't start well.

 

We could be in for another lost season.

[SoxHop]

This is something I wonder about for sure.

 

Things could turn to s*** very quickly if they don't start well.

 

We could be in for another lost season.

 

With two lost seasons behind us, the reporters and fans are ready to pounce for sure. This could really turn ugly if it starts bad. That the manager is in a position where he has to look over his back is not a good place to be.

 

I do think this team will keep stride with the pack at least, so I hope there isn't a problem. And Price seems like one of those veterans that could help an uneasy club calm down and play ball.

 

My big question is if the added pressure to perform is a hindrance, or a motivator for this team.

[SoxnCycles]

thank you I guess - I wasn't being accusatory just making a statement. You have been very outspoken in your beliefs, I have not. If you are saying that you believe in a healthy balance then I think that is great. Quite possibly I have misunderstood your feelings about the role advanced metrics play. I have gotten the impression that you have have placed far more value on them than i certainly have. I am very pleased that our primary owner believes that moderation and balance are very important.

 

Dude, nobody uses "I" more than you do on this site. Everyone is aware of how you feel about sabermetrics, along with every other topic brought up.

Kimmi has said on more than one occasion that teams need to use a combination of scout and stats, to run a successful organization.

There's no "possibly misunderstood", you're either not paying attention or have reading comprehension issues.

[Bellhorn04]

Amen. I have no respect for him.He makes my skin crawl.

 

Sure, he's a little on the creepy side, but as long as he wants to win titles and is willing to spend like this I'll consider him a great owner.

[SoxnCycles]

Henry is an expert at speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He should shut said mouth, and open the checkbook. Letting Theo go because of his attachment to Lucchino is the worst move he ever made.

 

Agreed. He really needs to keeps away from the mics.

And Lucchino was good at a lots of things, but helping to build a roster is not one of them.

[sk7326]

Scouting and Analytics represent a stupid (and false dichotomy). You don't assemble a premium farm system using analytics - that's just finding great athletes and baseball skills and bringing in talent. (between the uselessness and unreliability of high school statistics, and the simple matter that you are only getting wood bat looks at a small number of American kids)

 

Nobody has ever used just SPSS and spreadsheets to make all of their player decisions. The analytics complement the scouting (when done right of course). Spreadsheets don't see makeup or physical projection ... scouts don't always know which areas of emphasis really matter to producing good baseball players. The best example (from early on) was the idea of approach. Old timey baseball might have seen it as something coachable - but analytics demonstrated that it is really a "trait" which is very hard to improve. So that goes into what scouts have to think about.

 

I hope these silly Henry comments was just somebody on the NESN side telling him he should probably shed some tears for ratings.

[Kimmi]

thank you I guess - I wasn't being accusatory just making a statement. You have been very outspoken in your beliefs, I have not. If you are saying that you believe in a healthy balance then I think that is great. Quite possibly I have misunderstood your feelings about the role advanced metrics play. I have gotten the impression that you have have placed far more value on them than i certainly have. I am very pleased that our primary owner believes that moderation and balance are very important.

 

Of course you were being accusatory. Accusation is implied whenever you make a statement like that. Otherwise, there's no need to make suck a statement. Also, you are very outspoken in your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't kid yourself into believing otherwise.

 

I believe that advanced metrics play a very important role in baseball, probably more so than anyone else on this board. However, I have never even remotely suggested that scouting isn't very important as well. Neither has Ben, or Theo, or Bill James, or any other analytics types.

[Kimmi]

Henry is an expert at speaking out of both sides of his mouth. He should shut said mouth, and open the checkbook. Letting Theo go because of his attachment to Lucchino is the worst move he ever made.

 

Letting Theo go and firing Tito was pure lunacy and over reaction.

 

Firing Ben and hiring Dombrowski is over reaction 2.0.

[Kimmi]

With two lost seasons behind us, the reporters and fans are ready to pounce for sure. This could really turn ugly if it starts bad. That the manager is in a position where he has to look over his back is not a good place to be.

 

I do think this team will keep stride with the pack at least, so I hope there isn't a problem. And Price seems like one of those veterans that could help an uneasy club calm down and play ball.

 

My big question is if the added pressure to perform is a hindrance, or a motivator for this team.

 

Take a look at the articles written about the Red Sox and the posts that have been made here. Reporters and fans have already pounced. Things are already ugly, and the team hasn't even played its first ST game.

 

I very much enjoyed this article titled "Even For Boston, Red Sox Negativity Reaches Embarrassing New Lows"

 

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/02/25/embarrassing-red-sox-coverage-boston-media/

 

 

Can we at least see Sandoval actually failing to bend over, and Ramirez Buckner-ing grounders on a nightly basis, in actual games, before declaring them (and, by extension, the team) utter failures? Can we take it down one or twelve notches until something truly troubling actually happens? The first preseason game is on Monday; if Ramirez boots a grounder, open the floodgates all you want. But I believe in second chances, and this year is just that for Ramirez and Sandoval.[/Quote]

 

This is pretty much what I was saying a couple days ago. At least give Pablo (and Hanley) chance to actually stink before crucifying him.

[Kimmi]

Dude, nobody uses "I" more than you do on this site. Everyone is aware of how you feel about sabermetrics, along with every other topic brought up.

Kimmi has said on more than one occasion that teams need to use a combination of scout and stats, to run a successful organization.

There's no "possibly misunderstood", you're either not paying attention or have reading comprehension issues.

 

Thank you.

[Kimmi]

Scouting and Analytics represent a stupid (and false dichotomy). You don't assemble a premium farm system using analytics - that's just finding great athletes and baseball skills and bringing in talent. (between the uselessness and unreliability of high school statistics, and the simple matter that you are only getting wood bat looks at a small number of American kids)

 

Nobody has ever used just SPSS and spreadsheets to make all of their player decisions. The analytics complement the scouting (when done right of course). Spreadsheets don't see makeup or physical projection ... scouts don't always know which areas of emphasis really matter to producing good baseball players. The best example (from early on) was the idea of approach. Old timey baseball might have seen it as something coachable - but analytics demonstrated that it is really a "trait" which is very hard to improve. So that goes into what scouts have to think about.

 

I hope these silly Henry comments was just somebody on the NESN side telling him he should probably shed some tears for ratings.

 

As always, solid post.

 

I like the quote from one of the rival execs who asked for our analytics guys' phone numbers after Henry made this statement.

[Spudboy]

]Letting Theo go and firing Tito was pure lunacy and over reaction.[/b]

 

Firing Ben and hiring Dombrowski is over reaction 2.0.

 

Two guys ideally suited for this market. Just bad business.

[Spudboy]

The negativity is understandable from the fans. Who wants to see the same failed players again this year? How about building a rotation that functions now?

 

The Sox have dug a f***ing hole in this town. Even so, the fans, while negative, remain attentive. Imagine if it were another market where MLB was not such a large part of the local culture.

 

Pro sports and pro sports reporting are big business here. The media plays to the fans.

 

The Sox need to play winning baseball for the vibes to be more pleasant. Until then most of the negativity is warranted. That's just the way it is in this region.

[Kimmi]

The negativity is understandable from the fans. Who wants to see the same failed players again this year? How about building a rotation that functions now?

 

The Sox have dug a f***ing hole in this town. Even so, the fans, while negative, remain attentive. Imagine if it were another market where MLB was not such a large part of the local culture.

 

Pro sports and pro sports reporting are big business here. The media plays to the fans.

 

The Sox need to play winning baseball for the vibes to be more pleasant. Until then most of the negativity is warranted. That's just the way it is in this region.

 

I would say that skepticism is warranted, but the degree of negativity that I've seen before the first game is even play is unwarranted. It's not like ownership is resting on its laurels. They made some huge changes this offseason. I can almost guarantee you that if either Pablo or Hanley are terrible again, there will be a phantom injury placing them on the DL.

 

Pablo and Hanley were terrible last year. As I said, I can understand being skeptical of their ability to rebound. However, they at least deserve a chance to make amends for last season. Players have bad seasons. Give them a chance.

[Spudboy]

I would say that skepticism is warranted, but the degree of negativity that I've seen before the first game is even play is unwarranted. It's not like ownership is resting on its laurels. They made some huge changes this offseason. I can almost guarantee you that if either Pablo or Hanley are terrible again, there will be a phantom injury placing them on the DL.

 

Pablo and Hanley were terrible last year. As I said, I can understand being skeptical of their ability to rebound. However, they at least deserve a chance to make amends for last season. Players have bad seasons. Give them a chance.

 

Give them a chance? Like the chance they had last year? Or the chance they had in the off-season to become more fit and to learn how to play 1st base?

 

Neither of these two guys have done or said anything this spring that has given fans encouragement. They are defiant in what they say or just smile and joke about any need to improve. This is easily seen any time either of them is on TV. They don't take their responsibility seriously. Or at best, not seriously enough.

 

This all ads up to the Boston fans "negativity"

 

I've seen this act before in this town. I seriously doubt that either of them ever succeeds in Boston.

[a700hitter]

Players have bad seasons. Give them a chance.

In the words of Teddy Ballgame, "Teddy Ballgame doesn't have bad seasons."

[Kimmi]

Give them a chance? Like the chance they had last year? Or the chance they had in the off-season to become more fit and to learn how to play 1st base?

 

Neither of these two guys have done or said anything this spring that has given fans encouragement. They are defiant in what they say or just smile and joke about any need to improve. This is easily seen any time either of them is on TV. They don't take their responsibility seriously. Or at best, not seriously enough.

 

This all ads up to the Boston fans "negativity"

 

I've seen this act before in this town. I seriously doubt that either of them ever succeeds in Boston.

 

Yes, give them a chance to play some actual games this season. They stunk last year. Has no player ever rebounded from a bad year?

 

I don't agree with your perception of their offseasons and their attitudes. I get that you don't like what you see. That may or may not translate into how they play this season. They may very well stink as badly as they did last season, but spring season is far too early to write them off.

 

Someone (I think it was you) asked me last year at what point we could write Pablo and Hanley off as lost causes, to which I responded midseason this year. Give them a chance. They may surprise you.

[Kimmi]

In the words of Teddy Ballgame, "Teddy Ballgame doesn't have bad seasons."

 

Teddy Ballgame may not have bad seasons, but other players do.

[a700hitter]

Teddy Ballgame may not have bad seasons, but other players do.

And others just decline. Pablo was not injured. He has just been in decline. He admits that he put in no fielding work in the off season, so why would we expect improvement in that aspect of his game?

[Kimmi]

And others just decline. Pablo was not injured. He has just been in decline. He admits that he put in no fielding work in the off season, so why would we expect improvement in that aspect of his game?

 

Because players often have bad seasons, then rebound. As I said, I can understand the skepticism about whether he can rebound or not. I don't understand the hatred, and quite frankly, that's what it is.

[mvp 78]

He sucked last year and came in looking fat after the Sox were in last place last year. Plus Sox tickets are way too expensive and they got rid of Don. I'm not surprised that many fans are pissed.

[a700hitter]

Because players often have bad seasons, then rebound. As I said, I can understand the skepticism about whether he can rebound or not. I don't understand the hatred, and quite frankly, that's what it is.

I don't think it is hatred. That is your interpretation. I do think that there is a lot of resentment, because he was extremely overweight and underperforming last season, and he has given no effort to address the weight issue. It looks like he is not giving full effort. Fans resent that. If he were my neighbor, I am sure that we would get along famously. I'll bet he has the best BBQs in his neighborhood. So, I don't think anyone hates him. Is he being fat-shamed? Yuh, and I wouldn't be surprised if his team mates tease him about his weight too. Do you think they hate him.

[Spudboy]

No Kimmi. It is not hatred. At least on my part, anyway. It is just an honest reaction to seeing two players being paid over 40 mil a year who act like they just don't care. Of course I want them to rebound and be productive this season.

 

And of course I resent that they don't make the effort to be accountable for their bad performance.

 

For about 3-4 years I have been hoping each season that Pedroia will rebound and be as productive as he had been before the onset of injuries. I am still hoping that he rakes this year. But he is much different from these two guys. He has been one of the best at his position and every year he goes out and plays hard. No one has any doubt about his commitment to being good.

 

In a lesser market Hanley and Pablo can get away with this stuff. Not in Boston.

[Northern Star]

and there you have it.