Moncada is coming

[Dojji]

Even if Betts and Swihart are still off limits - this move likely puts Devers or Margot into play as a sweetener for a deal that might have less high end big league ready prospect stuff.

 

Not if you're smart. Plenty of room for some prospects for now and more for 3 years from now. Never lean on just one prospect to be The Guy at any one position unless you're given no choice.

 

If I'm honest I'd rather sacrifice wins this year to keep that prospect roster intact. I think this team has more potential to grow from within at the moment than it does to mortgage talent for wins and win the World Series. Our team infrastructure is a little too old and has too many flaws for me to be comfortable with a team decision to be in GFIN mode.

[Spudboy]

Not if you're smart. Plenty of room for some prospects for now and more for 3 years from now. Never lean on just one prospect to be The Guy at any one position unless you're given no choice.

 

If I'm honest I'd rather sacrifice wins this year to keep that prospect roster intact. I think this team has more potential to grow from within at the moment than it does to mortgage talent for wins and win the World Series. Our team infrastructure is a little too old and has too many flaws for me to be comfortable with a team decision to be in GFIN mode.

 

Well Dojji I can see how you can feel this way to some degree. But the other side of the coin is that so many prospects never realize much if any at all success in the bigs.

 

At some point a team may weigh its options and determine that a current need justifies sacrificing "the possible" down the road.

 

I like the idea of home grown talent very much, don't get me wrong. I want organizational depth at all positions. But those guys are currency that may need to be used to help build a winner one way or another.

[Kimmi]

It's a good signing. Even with the crazy overinflation of Cuban prospects, this seems like a premium one.

 

 

I was not at all expecting the Sox to sign him, but the more I read about him, the more I like the signing. This signing gives the Sox so much flexibility, both in terms of the positions that he can play and in terms of making trades more possible.

[Kimmi]

I am pissed off to all hell on this one. The most recent SR I saw on this kid put him as a corner IFer rather than SS. Yankees put him through 3 workouts, presumably to see how he'd fare as a MIF. My guess is they didn't think he'd stick. Regardless, this kid is 19 and possesses a now bat. He has plus power projection and could probably hold his own today if he had to. He is only going to get better. My guess is he is your 3B of the future with Panda moving to 1b after Napoli moves on. I wanted him in NY in the worst way. A total cost of $60 mil would be complete chump change if the sox get the ceiling out of him, which he apparently isn't far away from. And, this isn't your typical FA contract. This is a bonus, meaning the kid isn't even on the 40 man and is controlled like any INTL signee. The sox are probably going to stash him in AA for the season and start him in the bigs when he is fully ready, and THEN they will have 6 years of control. This is a great move for Boston.

 

 

Thank you for having the integrity to post that. Believe me, I know it's not easy to watch a player that you want sign with the 'enemy'. For a Yankees fan, you're ok.

[sk7326]

Not if you're smart. Plenty of room for some prospects for now and more for 3 years from now. Never lean on just one prospect to be The Guy at any one position unless you're given no choice.

 

If I'm honest I'd rather sacrifice wins this year to keep that prospect roster intact. I think this team has more potential to grow from within at the moment than it does to mortgage talent for wins and win the World Series. Our team infrastructure is a little too old and has too many flaws for me to be comfortable with a team decision to be in GFIN mode.

 

You don't sacrifice big league wins at the prices they are charging us. This is not license to be dumb, but no reason to act like we don't have more poker chips than other people. I'd like to hold on to the every kid I think can be a superstar. I'm not even advocating moving Devers (heavens no) or Margot. But you don't make big league decisions on something 3 years away - not unless you are in an actual teardown. If the right piece is there (quality + control), you have to look at your "I love them but they haven't even left Salem yet" kids and make the calculation.

[Kimmi]

I like the Good Doctor but I am very interested to see how this kid fits into the chart!!!

 

 

I've seen a couple of references to "the chart". What chart might that be?

[User Name]

You don't sacrifice big league wins at the prices they are charging us. This is not license to be dumb, but no reason to act like we don't have more poker chips than other people. I'd like to hold on to the every kid I think can be a superstar. I'm not even advocating moving Devers (heavens no) or Margot. But you don't make big league decisions on something 3 years away - not unless you are in an actual teardown. If the right piece is there (quality + control), you have to look at your "I love them but they haven't even left Salem yet" kids and make the calculation.

 

As usual, sound reasoning SK.

[User Name]

I've seen a couple of references to "the chart". What chart might that be?

 

I'll see if I can find it.

[Kimmi]

I'll see if I can find it.

 

I like charts.

[Jasonbay44]

This is an absolutely huge get for the Sox. I am really excited about the future of this team and this definitely opens up the possibility of a trade for Hamels or another front line starter. However, out of all the guys names being mentioned in rumors I just hope that Mookie Betts isn't dealt.

[seabeachfred]

Probably it is a long shot but... If the Kid is "ready" and X goes to Philly for Hammels, I'll be ok with that.

 

Everyone here knows I still have deep reservations about X, and he either has to really produce this year or his value will sink like a rock a la Middlebrooks and Bradley. If it take Xander to get Hamels I would make that trade in a flash and just go with Holt or someone else at SS this season. Of course, if Bogey starts playing and hitting as most of you think I will have egg on my face. Still, we now have pieces to trade for a solid pitcher.

[Spudboy]

I've seen a couple of references to "the chart". What chart might that be?

 

Regrettably I don't have a copy of The Chart.

 

It was a matrix that a Talksox member came up with and posted that helped us to understand why when the Yankees did something it would be a great thing and when the Sox did something it was the end of the world. So to speak.

 

Sox prospects were bound to fail but Yankee's prospects would be multi-time all stars. That an injury to a Red Sox would signal the end of his productivity but an injury to a Yankee would somehow be okay or even what was best for the player and team.

 

That type of thing.

 

This was about six years ago when the Jacko hate was at it's peak.

 

Things have calmed down since then. But we love to roll our eyes when Jacko "reverts to form".

 

It's all just fun to play with now.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Spudboy

[Palodios]

I'll see if I can find it.

 

I can't seem to find it either. If I recall, the site move screwed up charts -- they seem to cause bugs on mobile devices here. Anyone know exact phrases that it used?

[User Name]

Someone find that damn chart!

[Spitball]

Someone find that damn chart!

 

This is all I can find, but it is not up to date.

 

http://www.soxprospects.com/org.htm

[Kimmi]

Regrettably I don't have a copy of The Chart.

 

It was a matrix that a Talksox member came up with and posted that helped us to understand why when the Yankees did something it would be a great thing and when the Sox did something it was the end of the world. So to speak.

 

Sox prospects were bound to fail but Yankee's prospects would be multi-time all stars. That an injury to a Red Sox would signal the end of his productivity but an injury to a Yankee would somehow be okay or even what was best for the player and team.

 

That type of thing.

 

This was about six years ago when the Jacko hate was at it's peak.

 

Things have calmed down since then. But we love to roll our eyes when Jacko "reverts to form".

 

It's all just fun to play with now.

 

 

Yes, I am all too familiar with that type of thing. It's almost like that is a requirement of being a Yankees fan. LOL

 

I don't know how Jacko was back then, but he doesn't seem that bad now, outside of rooting for the wrong team. At least he acknowledged a good signing for the Sox. The whole chart thing is too funny though.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

[Kimmi]

Someone find that damn chart!

 

LOL It's not that important, so don't go all Fred on me about it.

[Northern Star]

Don't care how much potential he has, he's done nothing. Hasn't hit a pitch of MLB ball, and we're giving him $30 mil?? I hate the economics of the game.

[Gringo]

he'll take over in left when hanley flops/gets hurt/acts up

[cp176]

Don't care how much potential he has, he's done nothing. Hasn't hit a pitch of MLB ball, and we're giving him $30 mil?? I hate the economics of the game.

 

More than twice that much actually. I feel the same way that you do about it. Just going to say though that if anyone thinks that the Sox aren't willing to spend for the players that they want they are crazy. They may not sign the ones that we want but they sure and hell will sign the ones that they want. I have to think that if they had wanted to sign Scherzer or Lester they would have. I do not think that they were in their plans.

[User Name]

he'll take over in left when hanley flops/gets hurt/acts up

 

So you don't like Hanley is what you're saying.

[Spitball]

My guess is he is your 3B of the future with Panda moving to 1b after Napoli moves on.

 

I am late to the party, but I agree with this projection. It I the best likely scenario with the available talent, contracts, and talent. Cecchini becomes a candidate to switch positions or a trade part.

[Spudboy]

So you don't like Hanley is what you're saying.

 

Many people are waiting for the fail from Hanley.

 

I was shocked and disappointment when the Sox suddenly signed him. Now I'm looking forward to seeing his at bats. I want to see what makes him such a special hitter.

 

I really doubt that he will be plagued by injury as the press and ill-informed fans have tried to sell.

 

At the same time, while I know for a fact that he spent a bunch of time with Ortiz this winter ( and received many earfuls ), I am not convinced that he will keep his nose out of trouble while playing here. I think that the kid is still a punk and a twerp.

 

I always rail against big contracts and I am in no mood for the usual lectures of his value given WAR and all that ********. But this is one big contract that I believe may pay decent dividends.

 

If he performs, he will go big and this market will love his ass. If he sucks in anyway he will be branded as just another Crawford and the biggest malcontent in MLB.

[iortiz]

...They don’t need him to become a superstar to justify this price; the $63 million commitment works if his most likely outcome is a good-not-great player, with significant bust potential but also some slight chance of turning into a superstar.

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/why-63-million-for-yoan-moncada-makes-sense/#more-177546

[Ogden]

As I said it is loooong shot... But if the kid is the real deal (very likely) and ready, and they trade XB for Hammels I won't complain although I would have signed a FA. What is interesting is that this signing suddenly happened after a couple of weeks where the Hammels talks were everywhere.

 

 

He has a big body, he's 19, and will be in Class A. Trading Bogaerts shouldn't be given a thought.

[Ogden]

We do have Marrerro waiting in the wings at SS. He is a plus fielding SS.

 

 

But he hits like Don Buddin.

[Ogden]

If Pedroia has another 2 years like last year and Moncada projects as a 2nd baseman, I'd send the dirt dog on his way in 2017 and say thanks for the memories. But if Pedroia regains his form, as Emily Litella once said .....

 

http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4251599/Emily-Litella-Never-mind.jpg

[example1]

As I said it is loooong shot... But if the kid is the real deal (very likely) and ready, and they trade XB for Hammels I won't complain although I would have signed a FA. What is interesting is that this signing suddenly happened after a couple of weeks where the Hammels talks were everywhere.

 

Bogaerts, age 19, between A+ and AA:

127 g, .307/.373/.523/.896; 20 HR, 81 RBI

 

Bogaerts, age 20, between AA and AAA:

116 g, .297/.388/.477/.865; 15 HR, 67 RBI

 

Those are excellent numbers for a player a few years ahead of his competition. I think it would be unrealistic to expect Moncada to do much better than that, wouldn't it? Those numbers and age made Bogaerts a top 10 prospect.

 

Keep them both, maybe use other chips to get a Hamels. They have an enviable young offensive core on their hands. Yes, they need a top pitcher but not at the expense of a core cost controlled offensive player. All of these guys (Betts, Moncada, Swihart, Bogaerts, even Castillo) appear to be either defensively viable or plus, with decent to excellent speed.

 

There are good FA pitchers available next year who won't cost a guy like Swihart. Patience is the best play here.

[cp176]

...They don’t need him to become a superstar to justify this price; the $63 million commitment works if his most likely outcome is a good-not-great player, with significant bust potential but also some slight chance of turning into a superstar.

 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/why-63-million-for-yoan-moncada-makes-sense/#more-177546

 

Read the article and still find it hard to justify that price tag for a 19 year old prospect. I do like the idea of signing the best athletes that you can as opposed to trying to slot them into their playing positions. Clearly an offensive strategy - hope it works out.

[cp176]

On second thought, it looks as though the Red Sox don't have to worry much about justifying a price tag for anything.