Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[a700hitter]

Enough with the baby s***-----they've coddled this guy year to year. A little tough love and tough talk from a Dutch uncle is now needed to get this candy ass to either shape up or barf out.

Dean, you can really turn a phrase.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier: It seems early to react to Red Sox pitching numbers. Less than the equivalent of one game in a football season has been played. But...

 

@alexspeier: ...in '14, the 4 AL teams that gave up the most R/G thru 10 days finished the year as the 4 worst in run prevention.

[SoxnCycles]

Fred's a regular Walt Whitman.

[seabeachfred]

Dean, you can really turn a phrase.

 

Once in awhile I even surprise myself Ted. Thanks for the advice on posting my Dean title. Somehow I got it on the bottom of the page instead. I had it in both boxes but they added the one in the large one. I think if I hadn't put it there they would have used the one I had in the small box and it would have been where I really wanted it. Clue me in if you can. And thanks.

[Northern Star]

Fred's a regular Walt Whitman.

 

only older.

[Kimmi]

That's the going rate. Guys who are more injury-prone and have had less recent success (Brett Anderson) got similar guarantees. Whether it pisses you off or not, that is the market.

 

For a team with the resources the Red Sox have, these are high-risk plays they can afford to make. The funny thing is that when they don't spend money, then the whining about "penny-pinching" comes into play. Let them spend.

 

 

And the deal is only for one year. If it were a multi-year deal, that would be another story. Someone like Masterson is worth the risk for one year. If he bombs, his contract is not going to handcuff the Sox in any way.

[Kimmi]

And they're going to get more games "gifted" to them from bad teams.

 

All decent teams do, over the course of the season.

 

I love how fans were so non-committal to this team being good, one turn through the rotation, but now that we've had not quite two, we all know they're screwed.

 

 

We have had some good breaks, which the Sox were able to capitalize on. I've said before, the division is so tight that the division winner could very well be the team that gets the most favorable breaks. You take those wins any way you can.

[Spudboy]

I realize that many here think that Brandon Workman is of little consequence. His efforts to become a starter last year were close to a disaster and all.

 

However, he was a pretty big piece of the winning puzzle in 2013 and looked "poised" to become a key component for subsequent years.

 

A couple of days ago Dr. Andrews injected Workman's elbow with platelets ( just as Tanaka received last year ). Of course I do not understand the severity of his elbow issue but my guess is that he can no longer be thought of as a potential pen arm this year.

 

This sucks big time, I think. I like power arms and the Sox have very few.

 

Oh well. Just wanted to bring this up in case anyone missed it.

[Palodios]

I realize that many here think that Brandon Workman is of little consequence. His efforts to become a starter last year were close to a disaster and all.

 

I'm very surprised this hasn't come up yet. We have a guy who was an excellent reliever that the Red Sox failed to convert to a starter, thus ruining the player. Seems like a FO move that that would have been heavily blasted by now.

[User Name]

Workman was a starter that got some relief work in. Not nearly the same situation as Bard.

[Palodios]

Workman was a starter that got some relief work in. Not nearly the same situation as Bard.

 

Workman had all the signs of a pitcher who should be relieving. People around here talk about "pitchers who lose it the second and third through a rotation" and 9 times out of 10 have no real data behind. Workman's numbers last year actually support it.

[User Name]

Workman had all the signs of a pitcher who should be relieving. People around here talk about "pitchers who lose it the second and third through a rotation" and 9 times out of 10 have no real data behind. Workman's numbers last year actually support it.

 

You're still conflating two entirely different situations. Whther or not he had all the "signs" Workman was viewed by the org as a potential swingman, at worst.

[seabeachfred]

Workman had all the signs of a pitcher who should be relieving. People around here talk about "pitchers who lose it the second and third through a rotation" and 9 times out of 10 have no real data behind. Workman's numbers last year actually support it.

 

Right again Pal. Workman looked like a very good candidate for a bullpen job but for some reason Farrell and Co. insisted he could start and he couldn't. By the second time through the lineup he became human cannon fodder. Though the similarities between him and Bard are not so similar we see a mistake in trying to make a person with one talent try to become one in another. Workman is a reliever.

[User Name]

Right again Pal. Workman looked like a very good candidate for a bullpen job but for some reason Farrell and Co. insisted he could start and he couldn't. By the second time through the lineup he became human cannon fodder. Though the similarities between him and Bard are not so similar we see a mistake in trying to make a person with one talent try to become one in another. Workman is a reliever.

 

Fred, do you know how valuable a swingman is? Good teams usually have one of those. If they wanted to turn Workman into one, they had to keep him stretched out.

Edited April 19, 2015 by User Name?

[sk7326]

Right again Pal. Workman looked like a very good candidate for a bullpen job but for some reason Farrell and Co. insisted he could start and he couldn't. By the second time through the lineup he became human cannon fodder. Though the similarities between him and Bard are not so similar we see a mistake in trying to make a person with one talent try to become one in another. Workman is a reliever.

 

Are you sure? They seem like different cases ...

 

Bard was tried at a starter, failed and then converted to a reliever. That he could recover starter chops was the mistake.

 

EVERY prospect (guy with a major league ceiling) starts as a starter. Workman at this point is not a starter - but the Sox were absolutely right to try it until he proved otherwise conclusively. (it means turning a lineup over at least twice like you said, and usually a credible third pitch)

[Spudboy]

As it turns out Bard has legit physical reasons why he started to suck.

 

I'm not happy that Workman's arm is injured and may go pop. I think that he could be a good set up man or even closer some day. But his window is now closing.

[iortiz]

Wonder what is the worst ERA that a RS rotation posted in all time.

[mvp 78]

Wonder what is the worst ERA that a RS rotation posted in all time.

 

2012

[iortiz]

2012? I thought we had uglier years in this regard, reason why I just put 10 Y haha.

 

It's still April and all but sincerely I do not see a significative change in the coming future, actually I see pretty much the same coming.

[seabeachfred]

2012? I thought we had uglier years in this regard, reason why I just put 10 Y haha.

 

It's still April and all but sincerely I do not see a significative change in the coming future, actually I see pretty much the same coming.

 

And I remember well Israel that you were the loudest in saying we not only needed one quality starting pitcher entering the season---you said we needed two. You're started to look smarter by the minute until things get so bad we might need three. I keep hearing some of our colleagues saying just wait until the trade deadline. Yea, then what? What if we are dead in the water by then? What if some of the smarter teams don't pull a Prune Face-Lester debacle and resign their pitchers? What if the asking price remains high and we refuse to pay the price? We had better start winning games in bunches real soon or we will be talking about next year in June or July and some of us here will be on the warpath for Cherington's scalp while fire rages from some of our noses and steam erupts from our ears.

[Northern Star]

So did Ben even notice Miley's WHIP and ERA trending up the last three years straight? And still not just traded for him, but dished out an extension no questions asked?

[iortiz]

And I remember well Israel that you were the loudest in saying we not only needed one quality starting pitcher entering the season---you said we needed two. You're started to look smarter by the minute until things get so bad we might need three. I keep hearing some of our colleagues saying just wait until the trade deadline. Yea, then what? What if we are dead in the water by then? What if some of the smarter teams don't pull a Prune Face-Lester debacle and resign their pitchers? What if the asking price remains high and we refuse to pay the price? We had better start winning games in bunches real soon or we will be talking about next year in June or July and some of us here will be on the warpath for Cherington's scalp while fire rages from some of our noses and steam erupts from our ears.

 

What worries me more now Fred is the BP. The SP staff is not going deep in games, at this pace what is going to happen, say by July.

[TedWilliams101]

Call guys up, make moves, and blow this rotation up. Let Buccholz suck in AAA, I'm sick of his s***.

[iortiz]

Call guys up, make moves, and blow this rotation up. Let Buccholz suck in AAA, I'm sick of his s***.

 

But it's too early, stop bitching! Haha

 

How are you doing TW101?

 

Yup, This pitching staff is and will be nightmare.

[User Name]

Oh look, a bunch of reactionary posts and the usual suspects whining and claiming "being right" in broken English in April. What are the odds.

[iortiz]

Oh look, a bunch of reactionary posts and the usual suspects whining and claiming "being right" in broken English in April. What are the odds.

 

... Reactionary? Nah it was a matter of time. It doesn't matter it is April, this pitching staff is and will be horrible.

 

And yup, I'm right about my projections thus far. Whata about yours?

 

If you are still that confident, accept the bet regarding Porcello, and stop this cheap talk. Whata about 300 USD? Or maybe You are just blah, blah.

Edited April 29, 2015 by iortiz

[TedWilliams101]

Oh look, a bunch of reactionary posts and the usual suspects whining and claiming "being right" in broken English in April. What are the odds.

 

I'm just being a good Red Sox fan, It's not like we have a decent pitching staff going through a rough patch. The rotation is embarrassingly average on paper, with lots of question marks. It's really no surprise that they've imploded and there isn't any evidence to suggest they are going to just magically become competent. One middle-of-the-rotation starter, 2 projects, a semi-disaster (Masterson), and then Buccholz... puke...

Edited April 29, 2015 by TedWilliams101

[User Name]

Lots of things:

 

Who's down on the farm, Farrell's terrible managing, misuse of mojo, how awesome Hanley is and why he actually needs a bigger helmet, among other things. The problem is you literally only sign in to complain about s***.

[iortiz]

I'm just being a good Red Sox fan, It's not like we have a decent pitching staff going through a rough patch. The rotation is embarrassingly average on paper, with lots of question marks. It's really no surprise that they've imploded and there isn't any evidence to suggest they are going to just magically become competent. One middle-of-the-rotation starter, 2 projects, a semi-disaster (Masterson), and then Buccholz... puke...

 

You can not point out nothing when something's wrong with the team, don't you get it? It is blasphemy, Damn you!

[a700hitter]

I'm just being a good Red Sox fan, It's not like we have a decent pitching staff going through a rough patch. The rotation is embarrassingly average on paper, with lots of question marks. It's really no surprise that they've imploded and there isn't any evidence to suggest they are going to just magically become competent. One middle-of-the-rotation starter, 2 projects, a semi-disaster (Masterson), and then Buccholz... puke...

It's all part of Ben's master plan.