Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[sk7326]

Putting it simply, the Red Sox Brand is take and rake - but if you're only going to have one, you want the rake.

[a700hitter]

The strategy going into the season was to stay competitive and hang with the pack while addressing issues and needs during the season. We have stayed within striking distance up to this point despite playing awful in every aspect of the game. The O's, Yankees and Toronto are all playing well right now and the pack is leaving us behind. Now, is the time to address the needs. That was the strategy... right?

[sk7326]

The strategy going into the season was to stay competitive and hang with the pack while addressing issues and needs during the season. We have stayed within striking distance up to this point despite playing awful in every aspect of the game. The O's, Yankees and Toronto are all playing well right now and the pack is leaving us behind. Now, is the time to address the needs. That was the strategy... right?

 

Yes - although the team on the field has made it complicated. I think the idea was that the issues entering the season were known and finite (in other words, the rotation). The OTHER problems have been genuine surprises - which leads to a more complicated question as to whether this roster can be saved. That's why management gets the big bucks. It's not like trading for Johnny Cueto is going to make the bats perk up.

[cp176]

Yes - although the team on the field has made it complicated. I think the idea was that the issues entering the season were known and finite (in other words, the rotation). The OTHER problems have been genuine surprises - which leads to a more complicated question as to whether this roster can be saved. That's why management gets the big bucks. It's not like trading for Johnny Cueto is going to make the bats perk up.

 

I am beginning to doubt that the people managing this franchise truly are capable of making the decisions that need to be made to turn the program around. It can't be just all about bad luck here. I may sound a little entitled but I find it difficult to understand. Supposedly our minor league system is one of the best in baseball. We have one of the very highest payrolls in the game. We aren't competitive. I don't get it. The situation sounds so good.

[Spudboy]

I am beginning to doubt that the people managing this franchise truly are capable of making the decisions that need to be made to turn the program around. It can't be just all about bad luck here. I may sound a little entitled but I find it difficult to understand. Supposedly our minor league system is one of the best in baseball. We have one of the very highest payrolls in the game. We aren't competitive. I don't get it. The situation sounds so good.

 

There is why we feel frustrated. With such an advantage we should expect more output. The FO guys are human too. They make mistakes in judgment. But counting on this team to turn it around now is a bit much to ask of most of the fans.

 

The Sox FO has dug a hole for itself.

[a700hitter]

There is why we feel frustrated. With such an advantage we should expect more output. The FO guys are human too. They make mistakes in judgment. But counting on this team to turn it around now is a bit much to ask of most of the fans.

 

The Sox FO has dug a hole for itself.

Spud, Ben had better try to dig out of the hole. His survival depends on it. You and I are old, but I have never seen 3 last place finishes in 4 seasons. That is historically bad, and it is inexcusable considering the size of our payroll. If they finish last again, heads will roll all over the organization.

[Spudboy]

Spud, Ben had better try to dig out of the hole. His survival depends on it. You and I are old, but I have never seen 3 last place finishes in 4 seasons. That is historically bad, and it is inexcusable considering the size of our payroll. If they finish last again, heads will roll all over the organization.

 

I agree Ted. I think both Farrell and Ben are here until the season is over and then something should be done.

 

You know how much I am amused by sports talk radio!!!! Today while driving I had the good fortune to listen to Felger and Mazz. Talk about being on acid! Felger proposed firing Farrell and bringing in Ozzie Guillin ( sp ). Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

[a700hitter]

I agree Ted. I think both Farrell and Ben are here until the season is over and then something should be done.

 

You know how much I am amused by sports talk radio!!!! Today while driving I had the good fortune to listen to Felger and Mazz. Talk about being on acid! Felger proposed firing Farrell and bringing in Ozzie Guillin ( sp ). Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

I have heard people mention Ozzie's name on these shows. Oye!

[a700hitter]

I agree Ted. I think both Farrell and Ben are here until the season is over and then something should be done.

 

You know how much I am amused by sports talk radio!!!! Today while driving I had the good fortune to listen to Felger and Mazz. Talk about being on acid! Felger proposed firing Farrell and bringing in Ozzie Guillin ( sp ). Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

The lame duck scenario would suck, because that would mean a lost season with nothing to look forward to until Thanksgiving when some FA talks heat up.

[cp176]

Spud, Ben had better try to dig out of the hole. His survival depends on it. You and I are old, but I have never seen 3 last place finishes in 4 seasons. That is historically bad, and it is inexcusable considering the size of our payroll. If they finish last again, heads will roll all over the organization.

 

I'm older than you both (chronologically of course). I had more fun listening to day games with my Grandfather in 1960 in the barn. I want the young guys. Swing a deal for one more really good young arm. Together with E-Rod the future would look good. Make sure that roster has leaders with good character.

[User Name]

I agree Ted. I think both Farrell and Ben are here until the season is over and then something should be done.

 

You know how much I am amused by sports talk radio!!!! Today while driving I had the good fortune to listen to Felger and Mazz. Talk about being on acid! Felger proposed firing Farrell and bringing in Ozzie Guillin ( sp ). Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

 

If Bobby V couldn't last more than a year, Guillen wouldn't last three months in Boston.

[cp176]

Don't need Ozzie Guilen - I actually think that farrell is a better disciplinarian behind those closed doors than we think.

[Behindenemylines]

I'm older than you both (chronologically of course). I had more fun listening to day games with my Grandfather in 1960 in the barn. I want the young guys. Swing a deal for one more really good young arm. Together with E-Rod the future would look good. Make sure that roster has leaders with good character.

 

If we are going to lose I rather let the kids play. E Rod gives hope about building a rotation. Let Swihart continue to get most of the innings behind the plate. Bogaerts is starting to show signs. Even though the average isn't there Betts gives you a lot. Nap and Ramirez no longer fit. I don't know if a contender would take Ramirez as a right handed power bat at DH. Sox pick up some of the money maybe something could get done. My eyes hurt watching him play left. Routine fly balls have become adventures. Nap is on final year of contract and just looks lost. If B. Johnson is ready for a shot do so. Kelly as a starter is not working. A guy who can throw gas for one inning would be a plus at the back end of the bullpen.

[cp176]

If we are going to lose I rather let the kids play. E Rod gives hope about building a rotation. Let Swihart continue to get most of the innings behind the plate. Bogaerts is starting to show signs. Even though the average isn't there Betts gives you a lot. Nap and Ramirez no longer fit. I don't know if a contender would take Ramirez as a right handed power bat at DH. Sox pick up some of the money maybe something could get done. My eyes hurt watching him play left. Routine fly balls have become adventures. Nap is on final year of contract and just looks lost. If B. Johnson is ready for a shot do so. Kelly as a starter is not working. A guy who can throw gas for one inning would be a plus at the back end of the bullpen.

 

Johnson goes tonight for the Pawsox.

[Northern Star]

If we are going to lose I rather let the kids play. E Rod gives hope about building a rotation. Let Swihart continue to get most of the innings behind the plate. Bogaerts is starting to show signs. Even though the average isn't there Betts gives you a lot. Nap and Ramirez no longer fit. I don't know if a contender would take Ramirez as a right handed power bat at DH. Sox pick up some of the money maybe something could get done. My eyes hurt watching him play left. Routine fly balls have become adventures. Nap is on final year of contract and just looks lost. If B. Johnson is ready for a shot do so. Kelly as a starter is not working. A guy who can throw gas for one inning would be a plus at the back end of the bullpen.

 

Sox would have to pick up more than some at $22mil/year.

[cp176]

Sox would have to pick up more than some at $22mil/year.

 

 

they stand to lose a lot more than that if they don't make some moves.

[Northern Star]

they stand to lose a lot more than that if they don't make some moves.

 

I only realized today exactly how much they are paying Hanley to play out of position. Wow.

[Palodios]

I don't understand why people believe Hanley is untradeable. He has a career .870 ops, he's still young and 3/60 isn't an insane contract, especially for a 31 year old. What other middle of the order bats are going to be available at the trade deadline ?

[Kimmi]

I don't understand why people believe Hanley is untradeable. He has a career .870 ops, he's still young and 3/60 isn't an insane contract, especially for a 31 year old. What other middle of the order bats are going to be available at the trade deadline ?

 

I'm not sure why people want to trade Hanley. People are using revisionist history in their assessments of both the Hanley and Pablo deals.

 

In 2013 and 2014, Hanley was worth 5.1 and 3.3 WAR, despite playing in only 86 and 128 games, respectively, and despite his poor defense. His contract is more than reasonable.

 

Also, in terms of the question of why anyone would think he would be okay in LF, left field is the 2nd easiest defensive position to play, while SS is the 2nd hardest defensive position to play. It's not uncommon or unreasonable to think that moving a poor or aging SS to LF will make him a better defender, if even only slightly. Outside of possible concerns with his attitude, there was nothing wrong with the Hanley contract, and there were good reasons to believe that his attitude would not be a problem. Personally, I don't think it is.

 

As far as Pablo goes, I was not a fan of his signing, only because I thought that for the price, there were better options, such as Headley. However, we desperately needed an upgrade at 3B. Based on his numbers from the previous seasons, Pablo should have been a significant upgrade over what we had last season. Pablo represented a key addition to this team, albeit a slightly overpaid one. Obtaining a 3B was a necessity. There is no way anyone could know whether Donaldson to the Sox was a viable option, so blaming Ben for not getting him is ridiculous.

[a700hitter]

There is no way anyone could know whether Donaldson to the Sox was a viable option, so blaming Ben for not getting him is ridiculous.

I am not sure what you mean by this. I am pretty sure that we could have topped a package of Brett Lawrie and Graveman. Toronto fleeced the hugely overrated Billy Beane.

[Bellhorn04]

I am not sure what you mean by this. I am pretty sure that we could have topped a package of Brett Lawrie and Graveman. Toronto fleeced the hugely overrated Billy Beane.

 

Timing is the question. Sandoval signed with us on November 25. Donaldson was traded on November 28.

 

What did Ben know, and when did he know it?

[a700hitter]

Timing is the question. Sandoval signed with us on November 25. Donaldson was traded on November 28.

 

What did Ben know, and when did he know it?

 

It's his job to know these things. He is supposed to make these things happen, not read about them in the newspaper. Are we to believe that Beane would shop Donaldson to only one team or that he was so overwhelmed by the offer of Lawrie and Graveman that he accepted it on the spot.

[Bellhorn04]

The big rumor about the Donaldson trade was that he said something that dissed Beane, Billy freaked out and wanted him traded ASAP.

[iortiz]

It's his job to know these things. He is supposed to make these things happen, not read about them in the newspaper. Are we to believe that Beane would shop Donaldson to only one team or that he was so overwhelmed by the offer of Lawrie and Graveman that he accepted it on the spot.

 

Yup. The more I see the people that have played in our 3B, the more I wonder, why in the hell did we let walk Beltre?

[Bellhorn04]

If Ben knew Donaldson was available and made no play for him, then yes, I agree absolutely, it was a royal f***-up.

[Bellhorn04]

Yup. The more I see the people that have played in our 3B, the more I wonder, why in the hell did we let walk Beltre?

 

The mistake there was betting that Youk would be just fine at third for several more years.

[a700hitter]

If Ben knew Donaldson was available and made no play for him, then yes, I agree absolutely, it was a royal f***-up.

 

It was a royal f*** up for not knowing that he was available. He has a whole organization at his disposal that is supposed to know these things.

[Elktonnick]

While I can agree with about Hanley especially since he is DH in waiting, the Sandoval deal then and now makes little sense. Sandoval defensive skills were sliding before the trade hence SF's reluctance to sign him.

His size and weight means that his defensive skills as a third baseman will likely deteriorate more rapidly then someone with a different height and weight. Given his likely poor future conditioning he is a poor candidate for 1st once his 3rd base skills deteriorate. His future DH role is unlikely if one envisions Ramirez in that position in 2016 and beyond.

 

Furthermore there was ample reporting about Sandoval being well known for having relative poor regular season hitting numbers. Where he really shines is in the playoffs. The Sandoval signing only is rational if Cherrington believed he was an essential piece for success in the playoffs.

 

Given the current total dysfunction that is this club, such thinking can best be described as delusional on Cherrington's part. Which is perhaps why so many now question Cherrington competence to be a Major League GM.

[Spudboy]

Timing is the question. Sandoval signed with us on November 25. Donaldson was traded on November 28.

 

What did Ben know, and when did he know it?

 

I heard that Donaldson and Bean went at it at the ballpark. So that seems to indicate that it happened during the season. If so, I would assume that Ben knew what Toronto knew before Donaldson was traded. We have no way of knowing the exact timing. But if Ben DID know that Donaldson was available while in pursuit of Sandoval then he is one dumb ass motherf***er. That is just very bad business.

 

Who knows, though.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Spudboy

[a700hitter]

I heard that Donaldson and Bean went at it at the ballpark. So that seems to indicate that it happened during the season. If so, I would assume that Ben knew what Toronto knew before Donaldson was traded. We have no way of knowing the exact timing. But if Ben DID know that Donaldson was available while in pursuit of Sandoval then he one dumb ass motherf***er. That is just very bad business.

 

Who knows, though.

 

Ben, one dumb ass mutherf***er! Lol! Love it.