Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[iortiz]

Miley and Porcello were great additions to the team. The rest of the rotation seems like it has a lot of question marks. Buchholz and Masterson both had awful 2014s. Kelly has potential, but he has never broken 120 IP in the majors.

 

Who is depth for those guys? The Red Sox traded the only prospects who saw major league starts in Webster, Ranaudo, RDLR. Wright and Barnes are next on the list, but they didn't get playing time last September. The rotation seems very unfinished.

 

 

I do not like Porcello at all. I think Miley and Kelly at No. 3/4 roles are oks to me. Masterson and Buch are huge ?s in my book, nothing to rely on... and that's it. They will call me negative and all but sorry this is how I really feel!

[Bellhorn04]

I do not like Porcello at all. I think Miley and Kelly at No. 3/4 roles are oks to me. Masterson and Buch are huge ?s in my book, nothing to rely on... and that's it. They will call me negative and all but sorry this is how I really feel!

 

Please explain exactly what you didn't like about Porcello's 2014 season.

[iortiz]

Please explain exactly what you didn't like about Porcello's 2014 season.

 

I think it was fluke year. 2009-2013 tells me more about the kind of pitcher he really is. Sure, he is young and could improve but I do not see a 3.4 ERA pitcher at all going forward. At very best around 4.0.

Edited January 30, 2015 by iortiz

[mvp 78]

Yup stats from 20-24 are far more important than stats from age 25.

 

\s

 

This guy is only going to get better.

[seabeachfred]

A couple of good arms wouldn't hurt anybody mostly to one of the highest payrolls in baseball, problem is and has been the strategy/distribution of the payroll.

 

I responded to this question on another thread and I'm with you Israel. Yes, we could get by with what we currently have as our rotation if they all pitch to their ability and two or three of them have big seasons minus crippling injuries. However, I still believe we would be much better served with a quality No. 1 guy because can we really count on Buchholz to give us a full year of good pitching with his history of weird and long lasting and slow healing injuries? How will Miley fare coming from a weak hitting division into a very strong hitting league, and what about Masterson? Has he recovered his health and arm from that fraud we saw last season? A quality ace might alleviate a lot of worries. That being said, a solid performance from most of that rotation and we could win the AL East. After that, who knows?

[iortiz]

Yup stats from 20-24 are far more important than stats from age 25.

 

\s

 

This guy is only going to get better.

 

Sure, probably he is not going to be a 5.0 ERA anymore but I do not see a 3.0 ERA either. My bet as I said is around 4.0.

[iortiz]

I responded to this question on another thread and I'm with you Israel. Yes, we could get by with what we currently have as our rotation if they all pitch to their ability and two or three of them have big seasons minus crippling injuries. However, I still believe we would be much better served with a quality No. 1 guy because can we really count on Buchholz to give us a full year of good pitching with his history of weird and long lasting and slow healing injuries? How will Miley fare coming from a weak hitting division into a very strong hitting league, and what about Masterson? Has he recovered his health and arm from that fraud we saw last season? A quality ace might alleviate a lot of worries. That being said, a solid performance from most of that rotation and we could win the AL East. After that, who knows?

 

Probably I'm a little bit more greedy my friend. I would have signed Lester and Shields. I would have liked as well to see Miley and Kelly with less pressure at 3/4 roles, while we prove some of our prospects in the depth side. That would have been my approach even if that would have meant not signing Panda and HR but you already had Cespedes in this scenario.

 

Anyways... Let's see how this work out.

Edited January 30, 2015 by iortiz

[Kimmi]

It is fine to be optimistic and all but come on LOL.

 

Sorry but this is the worst rotation I ever seen entering into a season, but that's me.

 

 

Here's the way I see it.

 

All the projection systems that I have looked at (Davenport, PECOTA, and Fangraphs) have the Sox winning (or tied w/ TB) the division. Now I realize that projections don't really mean much, but ON PAPER, the Sox have the best team in the AL EAST. They are a contender.

 

Of course anything can happen, and they still have to play the games, but isn't the goal of the GM during the offseason to assemble a good team on paper? Our FO has done that.

[Kimmi]

A lot would have to go right to be in this position. I would say that it is a long shot that Buch and Masterson stay healthy and perform as top of the rotation pitchers. Also, I can see Porcello as a solid #3 with the possibility of raising his game to a #2, but it is a very long shot that he performs like a #1.

 

 

I agree, we need a lot to go right. I would feel a lot better if we added another SP before the season starts. However, the team is good enough that it can afford to wait until after the season starts to assess what their needs are at that time.

[iortiz]

Here's the way I see it.

 

All the projection systems that I have looked at (Davenport, PECOTA, and Fangraphs) have the Sox winning (or tied w/ TB) the division. Now I realize that projections don't really mean much, but ON PAPER, the Sox have the best team in the AL EAST. They are a contender.

 

Of course anything can happen, and they still have to play the games, but isn't the goal of the GM during the offseason to assemble a good team on paper? Our FO has done that.

 

I've even seen a 9/1 odd to win the WS, the best shot I've seen to any team. But again, I do not buy at all.

[Northern Star]

It is fine to be optimistic and all but come on LOL.

 

Sorry but this is the worst rotation I ever seen entering into a season, but that's me.

 

Worst rotation I saw was 2001 Pirates.

[cp176]

I've even seen a 9/1 odd to win the WS, the best shot I've seen to any team. But again, I do not buy at all.

 

I agree with everyone that the offense needed to be upgraded. I am hoping that it is. Sandoval as opposed to Middlebrows is pretty clear. Ramirez as opposed to Cespedes - not so sure. We will wait and see. with respect to the rest of the offense, I think that it hinges on a lot of ifs. i want things to all work out. We shall see. Pitching staff, offense - who knows. I'm a fan so I am hoping for the best. We shall see. And honestly I don't care about what people think the rest of the teams in the east have. I truly am only concerned about one team being as good as they can be.

[seabeachfred]

I agree with everyone that the offense needed to be upgraded. I am hoping that it is. Sandoval as opposed to Middlebrows is pretty clear. Ramirez as opposed to Cespedes - not so sure. We will wait and see. with respect to the rest of the offense, I think that it hinges on a lot of ifs. i want things to all work out. We shall see. Pitching staff, offense - who knows. I'm a fan so I am hoping for the best. We shall see. And honestly I don't care about what people think the rest of the teams in the east have. I truly am only concerned about one team being as good as they can be.

 

The rest of the teams in the East can go take a dive....what does that mean to us? The Red Sox are the only team that counts, and, like you, that is the only team whose interest I'm concerned with.

[Kimmi]

The rest of the teams in the East can go take a dive....what does that mean to us? The Red Sox are the only team that counts, and, like you, that is the only team whose interest I'm concerned with.

 

 

Well whether you care about the other teams in the division or not, what they have or don't have means a lot to the Red Sox. They are our main competitors, after all. Not that the Sox should ever make a reactionary move in response to one of theirs, but the fact that none of the other teams look that strong is all the more reason why the Sox can add another starting pitcher on their own terms. There is not a dire need to add now.

[Kimmi]

I've even seen a 9/1 odd to win the WS, the best shot I've seen to any team. But again, I do not buy at all.

 

 

I don't understand why you're so down on the Sox chances. I'm not saying they're a shoo-in for the World Series, but they have as good a chance as most of the other teams. Other teams may have better rotations, but their weaknesses lie somewhere else.

[User Name]

I don't understand why you're so down on the Sox chances. I'm not saying they're a shoo-in for the World Series, but they have as good a chance as most of the other teams. Other teams may have better rotations, but their weaknesses lie somewhere else.

 

See Kimmi, there's something you still don't understand about TalkSox.....so allow me to enlighten you:

 

Almost everyone here has a schtick: I'm the really blunt guy with really good analytic skills, Spudboy is the resident old timer who's really nice, Palodios/SoxFanForSyth (on hiatus) are the eternal optimists, and iortiz is, well, the opposite of those two. He can find misery inside a puppy's bark. To each his own, i guess.

[User Name]

Owens ETA could be sooner - he's starting the year in AAA after all. But I don't think the org sees him as a taxi squad guy ... whenever he comes up, he ain't going back. The other guys (and Wright is there too) are much more "shuttle-worthy".

 

I meant mid-2015 actually. My bad.

[iortiz]

I don't understand why you're so down on the Sox chances. I'm not saying they're a shoo-in for the World Series, but they have as good a chance as most of the other teams. Other teams may have better rotations, but their weaknesses lie somewhere else.

I see a very unbalanced team Kim. Some probably will go after my throat for this but I see in our team one of the worst 5 rotations in baseball right now Kim. Offense will be fine but unless we score a lot of runs, it will be a looooong season.

 

Sure all teams have their ?s and all but I just can not understand how a high payroll team can go with a pitching staff like this. I just do not get it. As I said, hopefully I eat my words and everything goes fine for us next year.

[iortiz]

See Kimmi, there's something you still don't understand about TalkSox.....so allow me to enlighten you:

 

Almost everyone here has a schtick: I'm the really blunt guy with really good analytic skills, Spudboy is the resident old timer who's really nice, Palodios/SoxFanForSyth (on hiatus) are the eternal optimists, and iortiz is, well, the opposite of those two. He can find misery inside a puppy's bark. To each his own, i guess.

Hahaha come on man! I was pretty optimist entering into 2011 and 2014, at least give me that LOL!

[iortiz]

I agree with everyone that the offense needed to be upgraded. I am hoping that it is. Sandoval as opposed to Middlebrows is pretty clear. Ramirez as opposed to Cespedes - not so sure. We will wait and see. with respect to the rest of the offense, I think that it hinges on a lot of ifs. i want things to all work out. We shall see. Pitching staff, offense - who knows. I'm a fan so I am hoping for the best. We shall see. And honestly I don't care about what people think the rest of the teams in the east have. I truly am only concerned about one team being as good as they can be.

 

As I said I would have signed Lester and Shields even if that had meant not landing Panda and HR.

 

Offense will be fine. What worries me is that the 2011 phenomena repeats all over again: it didn't matter how many Rs that team score, our pitching wasn't going to let us win, no matter what... And in the end of that season the pitching taxed that momentum to the O. It was scary.

Edited January 31, 2015 by iortiz

[mvp 78]

Lester was the ace of that 2011 team. He couldn't buy a win. Why would you re-sign him then?

[iortiz]

Lester was the ace of that 2011 team. He couldn't buy a win. Why would you re-sign him then?

 

Haha again your captious questions in effect.

Edited January 31, 2015 by iortiz

[a700hitter]

I agree, we need a lot to go right. I would feel a lot better if we added another SP before the season starts. However, the team is good enough that it can afford to wait until after the season starts to assess what their needs are at that time.

People keep saying that they can assess their pitching needs after the season starts. I just don't see that as a realistic option. The last time the Red Sox added a significant starter during a season was ss MVP mentioned, Mike Boddicker around 25 years ago. It's just not that easy to add top pitching during the season.

[Bellhorn04]

My honest attitude about the rotation is this: I don't know jack. This is Cherington's baby. I think the plan was to focus on groundball pitchers because of the studies about the low strike zone and all that. Benny Boy is kind of putting himself on the line. I kind of like that. But I don't know how it's going to play out. I think it should be an interesting season.

[Spitball]

I don't understand why you're so down on the Sox chances. I'm not saying they're a shoo-in for the World Series, but they have as good a chance as most of the other teams. Other teams may have better rotations, but their weaknesses lie somewhere else.

 

You are an excellent addition to this forum, Kimmi. The Sox added two of the best offensive components available with Sandoval and Ramirez while they upgraded their biggest positional holes in the process. They built a starting staff that is a gamble but a sure bet to consistently produce ground ball outs. If problems evolve, they have a deep farm system to bring up youngsters or to trade for solutions to those problems. As I see it, the Red Sox are in a good position to win the AL East.

 

Once in the playoffs, the hottest team will advance. Outside of Bumgarner this season, aces Clayton Kershaw, Jon Lester, Justin Verlander, Max Scherzer and James Shields pitched 57 1/3 innings, allowing 69 hits and 42 earned runs for a 6.59 ERA. In my opinion, the Red Sox are strategically positioned to return to the post season.

[User Name]

There is a clear methodology to the way this rotation was built. They've also given themselves the ability to add a pitcher at any given time if they're so inclined. It is what it is.

[Bellhorn04]

People keep saying that they can assess their pitching needs after the season starts. I just don't see that as a realistic option. The last time the Red Sox added a significant starter during a season was ss MVP mentioned, Mike Boddicker around 25 years ago. It's just not that easy to add top pitching during the season.

 

It's not easy, sure. But last year we saw Lester and Price move at the deadline, and not for earth-shaking amounts of talent. And just because the Sox haven't done it in a while doesn't mean they wouldn't do it this year.

[User Name]

You are an excellent addition to this forum, Kimmi. The Sox added two of the best offensive components available with Sandoval and Ramirez while they upgraded their biggest positional holes in the process. They built a starting staff that is a gamble but a sure bet to consistently produce ground ball outs. If problems evolve, they have a deep farm system to bring up youngsters or to trade for solutions to those problems. As I see it, the Red Sox are in a good position to win the AL East.

 

Once in the playoffs, the hottest team will advance. Outside of Bumgarner this season, aces Clayton Kershaw, Jon Lester, Justin Verlander, Max Scherzer and James Shields pitched 57 1/3 innings, allowing 69 hits and 42 earned runs for a 6.59 ERA. In my opinion, the Red Sox are strategically positioned to return to the post season.

 

So are you, good sir, so are you.

[cp176]

Well whether you care about the other teams in the division or not, what they have or don't have means a lot to the Red Sox. They are our main competitors, after all. Not that the Sox should ever make a reactionary move in response to one of theirs, but the fact that none of the other teams look that strong is all the more reason why the Sox can add another starting pitcher on their own terms. There is not a dire need to add now.

 

I think that you are absolutely right about the patience factor (don't know if that is spelled correctly or not). We are all passionate fans and speaking just for myself I tend to want things yesterday that I can't have until tomorrow. I think it might be a New England trait. We aren't in bad shape many of us just want more I guess. I am willing to wait. We have a young team that could be special. It is nice to be told to stay grounded and to wait by someone in a I decent way. I appreciate it and I am trying to follow that advice.

[User Name]

It's not easy, sure. But last year we saw Lester and Price move at the deadline, and not for earth-shaking amounts of talent. And just because the Sox haven't done it in a while doesn't mean they wouldn't do it this year.

 

And Lackey, and McCarthy, and Masterson, and Samardzija.