Cespedes on the block

[Bellhorn04]

Both the Dodgers and Red Sox suffer from outfield glut, making peddling Cepedes for a decent return a challenge. Nevertheless it must be done in my view

 

I think it's pretty clear the Red Sox will deal Cespedes, and probably could have dealt him already to more than one team, but they're holding out for a better offer.

[User Name]

I'd kinda hate to see Victorino go. While there is a log jam of outfieders, he is the most proven talent we have in the out field. And When you look at our potential line up.... Shane Victorino is the one true lead off hitter we have. He has had time to get healthy and will be playing for a contract....... getting rid of him would be a mistake.

 

Betts is a better lead-off hitter than Victorino right now, because he can actually be in the lineup to hit first.

[iortiz]

iortiz, I hate to give you some bad news but it isn't going to be as easy as you think to peddle Cespedes to anybody. He has only one year left on his contract, will no doubt go FA after 2015, is not the best fielder in Christendom, has a miserably low OBA and has been catalogued as a problem in the clubhouse. If we can get a decent No. 3 for him we need to do it or we'll be stuck with him in 2015 in a crowded outfield which will lead to dissension and dissatisfaction on the bench and clubhouse. I saw that our here in California with the Dodgers problems with too many outfielder for too few positions----and we have more than they did. And don't buy into this nonsense about having a large surplus is a good problem to have. It is not. It is a recipe for a fractured team. Having said that, good to see you back posting here. I missed you.

Hi Fred, how are you? Hoping everything is doing right with you my friend.

 

The way I see the thing is... You have Betts and Castillo, who are unproven at MLB level. I would go slow with them. Then you have two injury-prone players in Victorino and Hanley. Also, I'm crossing fingers and hoping that Xander and Craig do not underperform again.

 

All I'm saying is that Cespedes could help you a lot if something goes wrong. On the other hand, if we can get a legit and solid arm no named Leake, Porcello or Latos, use a package around Cespedes to bring that arm.

 

We'll see how this ends up though. If we do not sign Lester, they will push for Shields aggressively IMO, and probably will try to trade for Hamels or Cueto.

 

In the end we need at least 2 legit 1st-tier arms to get it done, otherwise we will suffer again with our pitching next season.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd kinda hate to see Victorino go. While there is a log jam of outfieders, he is the most proven talent we have in the out field. And When you look at our potential line up.... Shane Victorino is the one true lead off hitter we have. He has had time to get healthy and will be playing for a contract....... getting rid of him would be a mistake.

 

I'll say this - he shouldn't be written off. When he's healthy he can be a hell of a player. I think we're all just very cynical about his health issues ever going away.

[Spitball]

I think it's pretty clear the Red Sox will deal Cespedes, and probably could have dealt him already to more than one team, but they're holding out for a better offer.

 

I believe Cespedes has limited trade value at this point. He is not a disciplined hitter, and his walk rate has slipped to well below league average. His OBP is in steadily getting worse. His power has peaked and is starting to decline. He has experienced regression in home run power and batted ball distance.

 

With the acquisition of Hanley Ramirez, every team realizes the Red Sox have to unload Cespedes. Left to right in the outfield, the starting three has to be Ramirez, Betts, and Castillo. That leaves an expensive Cespedes, Craig, and Victorino on the bench. Of the three on the bench, Cespedes is the most likely to be a negative influence on team chemistry. He has to go.

 

It is true the Red Sox need a number one and a number two starter...but Cespedes alone is not enough talent to bring either to Boston. If he can bring a Rick Porcello or Mike Leake, we should celebrate. Both were number 4 or 5s last year, but both were in among the best starting rotations in baseball. After the Lester and Lackey trades, both would have been the best pitchers on last year's Red Sox team.

[seabeachfred]

Fred I think that it's a safe bet that one way or another the Sox will rid themselves of the outfield congestion before spring training. If Lester does not come back it makes it almost certain that one, two, or even three OF will be dealt. At least I hope so.

 

I don't wish to see Victorino go but maybe he can be part of a package or two that includes Cespedes and Graig. In this way the Sox eliminate a potential problem in the OF with playing time and can lower the payroll at the same time. This could help in paying for quality arms for the top of the rotation.

 

This, to me makes sense. I hope that the FO can see this too.

 

I'd like to see that too Spud but if we lose on Lester and have to go for Hamels he is not going to be had for a combo of Cespedes and Craig or Craig and Victorino. The Phils had Vic and he is too old for a team that is rebuilding and Cespedes is a one year rental and will go FA and the Phils are not going to take a chance that they can sign up long term. Craig? We don't know how much his value has shrunk since his bad season this year, though I have a feeling he might have a good comeback year. No, if we go for Hamels you better believe the names you're going to hear from Philadelphia are Betts, Marrero, Owens, Swihart and Coyle........some combo of those three. Bank on it.

[seabeachfred]

I'd kinda hate to see Victorino go. While there is a log jam of outfieders, he is the most proven talent we have in the out field. And When you look at our potential line up.... Shane Victorino is the one true lead off hitter we have. He has had time to get healthy and will be playing for a contract....... getting rid of him would be a mistake.

 

If Shane is healthy and I hope he is, I would hate to see him go too. He is a gamer, he is a leader, he is a winner, he is a champion. Those kind of guys are hard to get and harder to replace.

[seabeachfred]

I believe Cespedes has limited trade value at this point. He is not a disciplined hitter, and his walk rate has slipped to well below league average. His OBP is in steadily getting worse. His power has peaked and is starting to decline. He has experienced regression in home run power and batted ball distance.

 

With the acquisition of Hanley Ramirez, every team realizes the Red Sox have to unload Cespedes. Left to right in the outfield, the starting three has to be Ramirez, Betts, and Castillo. That leaves an expensive Cespedes, Craig, and Victorino on the bench. Of the three on the bench, Cespedes is the most likely to be a negative influence on team chemistry. He has to go.

 

It is true the Red Sox need a number one and a number two starter...but Cespedes alone is not enough talent to bring either to Boston. If he can bring a Rick Porcello or Mike Leake, we should celebrate. Both were number 4 or 5s last year, but both were in among the best starting rotations in baseball. After the Lester and Lackey trades, both would have been the best pitchers on last year's Red Sox team.

 

I think the Red Sox had better wake the hell up and realize what you said---Cespedes does have limited trade value for all the reasons you stated and he would be a negative influence on a fractured clubhouse unless he is traded and pronto. The Sox have to realize they are not going to get a No. 1 or even a number two pitcher for him and should settle for a number three.

[mvp 78]

If Shane is healthy and I hope he is, I would hate to see him go too. He is a gamer, he is a leader, he is a winner, he is a champion. Those kind of guys are hard to get and harder to replace.

 

You weren't saying this during Spring Training 2013.

[Spudboy]

Both the Dodgers and Red Sox suffer from outfield glut, making peddling Cepedes for a decent return a challenge. Nevertheless it must be done in my view

 

Yeah but the Sox outfield is much cheaper than say, Kemp. That should make it easier to unload them with more potential suitors.

[Bellhorn04]

I believe Cespedes has limited trade value at this point. He is not a disciplined hitter, and his walk rate has slipped to well below league average. His OBP is in steadily getting worse. His power has peaked and is starting to decline. He has experienced regression in home run power and batted ball distance.

 

With the acquisition of Hanley Ramirez, every team realizes the Red Sox have to unload Cespedes. Left to right in the outfield, the starting three has to be Ramirez, Betts, and Castillo. That leaves an expensive Cespedes, Craig, and Victorino on the bench. Of the three on the bench, Cespedes is the most likely to be a negative influence on team chemistry. He has to go.

 

It is true the Red Sox need a number one and a number two starter...but Cespedes alone is not enough talent to bring either to Boston. If he can bring a Rick Porcello or Mike Leake, we should celebrate. Both were number 4 or 5s last year, but both were in among the best starting rotations in baseball. After the Lester and Lackey trades, both would have been the best pitchers on last year's Red Sox team.

 

His trade value is limited as you said, but I think there are a number of teams interested in him. 100 RBI's still means something.

[a700hitter]

His trade value is limited as you said, but I think there are a number of teams interested in him. 100 RBI's still means something.

 

Here we go with an RBI debate. Lol!

[wyo-sox]

Betts is a better lead-off hitter than Victorino right now, because he can actually be in the lineup to hit first.

 

 

I'd be lying if I said his health wasn't a concern for me also.... but really with the exception of last year he's done a good job of staying on the field. 2010-2013 he averaged 138 games a year. The last 5 years Pedroia averaged 134, Ortiz 132, and Napoli 124. So let's hope he is healed up with essentially missing all last year. But like I said his health does concern me.

[mvp 78]

I'd be lying if I said his health wasn't a concern for me also.... but really with the exception of last year he's done a good job of staying on the field. 2010-2013 he averaged 138 games a year. The last 5 years Pedroia averaged 134, Ortiz 132, and Napoli 124. So let's hope he is healed up with essentially missing all last year. But like I said his health does concern me.

 

He's 34 and had nagging injuries/been out of the lineup the past 2 years. It's only downhill from here. I think he's the 4th OF.

[User Name]

An excellent 4th OF mind you, who can play exceptional defense all over the OF, and hammer lefties.

[mvp 78]

An excellent 4th OF mind you, who can play exceptional defense all over the OF, and hammer lefties.

 

Yup. Giving him a little extra rest would go a long way to keep his production up too. Great clubhouse guy. Great defense to sub in. Really no downside to having him stick around. His trade value is low and it'd be silly to dump him for a low ceiling AA guy.

[BSN07]

Only problem is he is already saying if he is healthy he wants the RF job. Not sure he would be ok with 4th OF duties

[mvp 78]

I'd rather have a motivated Victorino than a guy who says "oh, I'll just sit on the bench and enjoy my fat paychecks." I hope he earns a starting job.

[a700hitter]

Only problem is he is already saying if he is healthy he wants the RF job. Not sure he would be ok with 4th OF duties

That's okay as long as he doesn't become a disruptive jerk like Jay Payton did a few years ago.

[mvp 78]

@jaysonst: Lester talks aren't just slowing pitching market. Also affecting bat market. Teams in on Cespedes frustrated #RedSox can't move him yet

[Spudboy]

@jaysonst: Lester talks aren't just slowing pitching market. Also affecting bat market. Teams in on Cespedes frustrated #RedSox can't move him yet

 

I see the word "teams" used there. There have been comments here about how Cespedes would have somewhat limited value in trade talks. Lol.

[Bellhorn04]

I see the word "teams" used there. There have been comments here about how Cespedes would have somewhat limited value in trade talks. Lol.

 

It's only limited in the sense of what the best return we can get for him is.

[seabeachfred]

You weren't saying this during Spring Training 2013.

 

Right mvp, I didn't like the three year $39 million dollar contract they gave Shane because I saw him on TV many times during his last two months in the NL with the Dodgers and he looked very bad.....especially hitting or trying to hit from the left side. Of course, what was I saying after the first few months of the 2013 season when he settled it with the team. Did I admit I was wrong about Vic? Did he become one of my favorites on the team. What did I say when I came back home from Boston after the ALCS and first two games of the WS? See, I think if you can remember my negative take on Victorino in the pre-season, you should also be able to remember what I said from June on. But, be honest.....you don't remember the good things I said about him, do you? That's ok, we usually remember when we or others screw up and not when they are right. I guess I'm the same way.

[seabeachfred]

Yeah but the Sox outfield is much cheaper than say, Kemp. That should make it easier to unload them with more potential suitors.

 

Not if the Red Sox try holding other teams up and demand more than he is worth. You don't want an angry and upset Cespedes sitting on the Red Sox bench in 2015 because the clubhouse and team will be fractured beyond recovery because we will have a couple of other players pissed that they should be playing. The Red Sox have to get rid of not one, not two but three of their outfielders if they want harmony on the team.

[mvp 78]

They have to trade 3 OF now? Huh? Crazy talk. JBJ can sit in AAA. Nava and Vic are on bench. Craig is backup 1b. Castillo, Ramirez and Betts start. Cespedes is moved.

 

Am I forgetting about soneone?

[seabeachfred]

They have to trade 3 OF now? Huh? Crazy talk. JBJ can sit in AAA. Nava and Vic are on bench. Craig is backup 1b. Castillo, Ramirez and Betts start. Cespedes is moved.

 

Am I forgetting about soneone?

 

Sounds so easy mvp GM. However, if we lose on Lester we will need a good No. 1 pitcher and that to me is Hamels who has contract that would sit well with Henry, and I like a LH starter heading the rotation. If it comes to that you can bet that we will have to ante up good to get Cole. He and Shields. That's my No. 1 and 2 if we lose on Lester.

[cp176]

Give me some stats to help me out - Isn't Ramirez in left just a hope that he will hit, stay healthy, and maybe just maybe play a descent left field. You see Castillo an automatic in their outfield? I hope that he turns out to be the player everyone wants him to be. Just a couple of years ago JB was fielding and hitting at a major league level in the minors. I don't see both Ramirez and Castillo starting in that outfield unless they move Betts which I hope they don't. 88 mil. to Ramirez? once agin, they must know a lot of things we don't.

[BSN07]

Give me some stats to help me out - Isn't Ramirez in left just a hope that he will hit, stay healthy, and maybe just maybe play a descent left field. You see Castillo an automatic in their outfield? I hope that he turns out to be the player everyone wants him to be. Just a couple of years ago JB was fielding and hitting at a major league level in the minors. I don't see both Ramirez and Castillo starting in that outfield unless they move Betts which I hope they don't. 88 mil. to Ramirez? once agin, they must know a lot of things we don't.

 

That is the hope with Hanley. Castillo has a ML contract and is getting paid. They will both be starting in the OF. Only question who is starting in RF Betts or Vic.

[cp176]

I think that they all have major league contracts and are getting paid. If Victorino is healthy, he will be in right. Ramirez in left I guess. I realize Castillo signed for a good amount and they will plan on having him out there. Was it a good signing? If it was - based on what?

[BSN07]

I think that they all have major league contracts and are getting paid. If Victorino is healthy, he will be in right. Ramirez in left I guess. I realize Castillo signed for a good amount and they will plan on having him out there. Was it a good signing? If it was - based on what?

 

Sorry dude no crystal balls here. We won't know if it was good or not til we see what he can do full time. But with his contract i doubt he's not starting unless he is awful. Vic is signed for a year. If Betts beats him out then Betts beats him out. If Betts doesn't have a good spring he will be in AAA until he gets another shot.