2014 Offseason Thread

[seabeachfred]

I wish I could see this somewhere. It is the type of thing I would like to see. I am pretty sure that they wouldn't trade for him if they didn't think that they could sign him. They could put a good package together that wouldn't kill the farm. Cost a little but they would be replaceable. If they were able to sign both Zimmerman and Porcello to extensions, I think that it would be a coup for this team.

 

Zimmermann would make me very happy.

[iortiz]

iortiz, I didn't know you were a Daddy Warbucks. Well I know who I can count on if I want to come into some needed cash.:cool: You might try telling me what you thinks the odds are for our getting out of the cellar and having a good season. And, good luck, keep winning and let the money keep rolling in. And keep posting. I like having you around.

Thank you Fred, anytime I could give you some picks and hopefully help you win some extra cash but mostly put extra pepper and excitement to the game.

[cp176]

Read a report of trade talks involving Craig, Kelly, Barnes and other mid level prospects. That just sounds like a too good to be true offer.

 

Got to get into this one. Not sure I like seeing Kelly go particularly but it certainly depends upon what they can get for them. I don't think that is going to get us that pitcher. Bullpen help? Good bullpen help. I think if you give up kelly in a deal, you need to get some good return.

[a700hitter]

Read a report of trade talks involving Craig, Kelly, Barnes and other mid level prospects. That just sounds like a too good to be true offer.

The Nats need a first baseman. What about Napoli?

[Kimmi]

The problem is we don't have enough information to make a definitive decision. Career numbers, especially for young pitchers, can change if there's a break out year. The team could do very well as is, or stay in contention long enough to make a deadline deal, or they could fall flat, or an acquisition now could fail and represent a gross overpay, or do very well. It comes down to gambling, making a bet, and hoping for the best. Hindsight is 20/20. Even simultaneously playing these numerous scenarios in parallel universes wouldn't be definitive proof because a different outcome would probably happen if they were played through again. That may be a conversation killer, but it's reality. Ultimately, people will make a moral argument on what they think should happen and try to convince others of their certainty. The trouble is . . . it's a crapshoot. There is no certainty.

 

 

It is a crapshoot, to a certain extent. There is risk involved in any move, but obviously, some moves are much riskier than others. It's very easy to judge a move based on hindsight, but IMO, that's usually unfair. It's much more difficult to anticipate a move going in.

 

Often, at the time of the move, the move is considered to be a great move by most fans and analysts. If the move does not pan out, for whatever reason, I don't understand all the criticism the FO then receives. Just because a move doesn't work out doesn't mean that it was a bad move. As you said, there is no certainty.

[example1]

Got to get into this one. Not sure I like seeing Kelly go particularly but it certainly depends upon what they can get for them. I don't think that is going to get us that pitcher. Bullpen help? Good bullpen help. I think if you give up kelly in a deal, you need to get some good return.

 

It's an interesting proposal. Kelly would be nice to have over the next 5 years, but I think Owens is will have least a marginally better career than Kelly, with the chance to have a much better career than Kelly. It would be a loss, but not in 2 years when Owens could be their #2 or #3 pitcher.

 

A package like Kelly, Barnes, Cecchini and Bradley Jr would be a great return for the Nationals long-term. I'm not sure they need to "win" a deal from a big name standpoint (getting Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart). They have a great team already and they're only offering a one year ace--not a 25 year old first year arb player.

[seabeachfred]

It's an interesting proposal. Kelly would be nice to have over the next 5 years, but I think Owens is will have least a marginally better career than Kelly, with the chance to have a much better career than Kelly. It would be a loss, but not in 2 years when Owens could be their #2 or #3 pitcher.

 

A package like Kelly, Barnes, Cecchini and Bradley Jr would be a great return for the Nationals long-term. I'm not sure they need to "win" a deal from a big name standpoint (getting Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart). They have a great team already and they're only offering a one year ace--not a 25 year old first year arb player.

 

Ex---I loved that idea you put forth until I heard about that "one year" deal for Zimmermann. I would like to get his name on an extension so we would have a least a few veteran starting pitchers for the next few years instead of having to dive for pitchers again next off season. Having failed to get an extension, I would still make the deal but would leave out Kelly and maybe put Renaudo in the deal instead. Kelly might be better than some of us think he is. The good news is that the Zimmermann talk is starting to get some legs. There might be something brewing there and as I've droned on for the past month, we really need that No. 1 guy.

[pruneface]

It is a crapshoot, to a certain extent. There is risk involved in any move, but obviously, some moves are much riskier than others. It's very easy to judge a move based on hindsight, but IMO, that's usually unfair. It's much more difficult to anticipate a move going in.

 

Often, at the time of the move, the move is considered to be a great move by most fans and analysts. If the move does not pan out, for whatever reason, I don't understand all the criticism the FO then receives. Just because a move doesn't work out doesn't mean that it was a bad move. As you said, there is no certainty.

 

All I ask, Kimmi, is for an informed risk. Don't throw money blindly. Do your homework, press the button and hope for the best, with full realization that there are probably other alternatives with a measured amount of reward to offset the risk, as well. Since there are limits, they only have one choice out of many.

[a700hitter]

I still have not read any reports that Red Sox and Nats are discussing Zimmerman. Does anyone have a link?

[Bellhorn04]

The source might be a little dubious, I don't know.

 

http://baseballhotcorner.com/red-sox-prepared-make-move-jordan-zimmermann/

[mvp 78]

That's where I read it too. Have never seen this blog before. That's in part why I thought the deal was too good to be true.

[Bellhorn04]

In other speculation, Alex Speier suggests that the size of the Scherzer deal takes the Red Sox out of next year's free agent market for pitchers.

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/21/max-scherzer-deal-likely-takes-red-sox-out-next-year-free-agent-market/PYwynMmOEst7IA5rA6OvtO/story.html?event=event25*

Edited January 22, 2015 by Bellhorn04

[a700hitter]

I have always wanted to go to spring training. Is it fun to go to?

Yes. This will be my 12th straight season. It's pure baseball without all the press and fanfare. It's a very relaxed atmosphere where winning is not a worry and you get to see a lot of the kids that about which you have been reading. There are no pink hat fans at Spring Training. Everyone in the stands is a harcore fan-- many of whom know more about our minor leaguers than most fans know about the big club.

[User Name]

Again, I can't wait for pitchers and catchers to report. It will make for far more interesting discussion here.

 

I wonder if Hanley will report on time or if he is stupid enough to pull a Manny? If I were him I would have been shagging fly balls all off season and show up early to do even more of it.

 

I wonder if Bradley and Graig have been in the cage at all in the off season.

 

What happens if one of the new starting pitchers shows up with an injury or becomes hurt in spring training? Who takes his place?

 

I have lots of questions.

 

Hanley's here in Santo Domingo, and he's working out with Papi. I go to an expensive gym here in the city with a friend of mine every other Sunday, and have seen the two of them working out a couple of times.

[a700hitter]

The source might be a little dubious, I don't know.

 

http://baseballhotcorner.com/red-sox-prepared-make-move-jordan-zimmermann/

Thanks Bells.

 

I would do that trade in a heart beat. In my opinion, a package of Some of Allen Craig, Joe Kelly, Garin Cecchini, Matt Barnes, Jackie Bradley is a collection of garbage and spare parts. The best player in that package is Kelly and the Nats are alread stacked with pitching. They would have no use for him. Cecchini is most likely blocked for a long time by Rendon/Zimmerman.

[a700hitter]

I'm not sure they need to "win" a deal from a big name standpoint (getting Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart). They have a great team already and they're only offering a one year ace--not a 25 year old first year arb player.

Will Ryan Zimmerman be moving to 1B for the Nats this season. If not, they could use a first baseman. Maybe Napoli would be a good fit.

[cp176]

It's an interesting proposal. Kelly would be nice to have over the next 5 years, but I think Owens is will have least a marginally better career than Kelly, with the chance to have a much better career than Kelly. It would be a loss, but not in 2 years when Owens could be their #2 or #3 pitcher.

 

A package like Kelly, Barnes, Cecchini and Bradley Jr would be a great return for the Nationals long-term. I'm not sure they need to "win" a deal from a big name standpoint (getting Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart). They have a great team already and they're only offering a one year ace--not a 25 year old first year arb player.

 

Everything that I have read so far seems to be absolute speculation. Almost like writers trying to create news - something like us. No better - no worse. Zimmerman, Strasburg (sp), Fister are all thrown out there. I think that Owens certainly has a chance to someday pitch at the same level Kelly is at. I would trade either or both though. Not sure that we have seen Kelly's ceiling. He is still a young man. I would not trade Rodriguez. Of the pitchers on the farm - Barnes, Johnson, Owens, and Rodriguez, you may someday have some inning eating middle of the rotation guys. Of that group Rodriguez intrigues me the most. It's a fairly young group with no sure things. Going to take some time. I am thinking that the Nats are going to look hard for up the middle help.

[mvp 78]

I am thinking that the Nats are going to look hard for up the middle help.

Pedroia for Zimmerman. Get it done Ben!

[cp176]

A little harder

[BSN07]

Pedroia for Zimmerman. Get it done Ben!

 

I love Pedey but that trade wouldn't disgust me since they have Betts. Pedroia's health issues are a big concern as he starts his extension. If they could get out from under that deal it should be considered. I don't see it as likely tho and I know you were most likely just kidding around but it's something to consider.

[dupree]

Pedroia's health is a big issue. But 1st off I couldn't imagine the Sox without him and 2nd trading him for one year of Zimmerman is not smart. Peedy is the heart and sole of this team, hurt or not he is the emotional leader alongside Papi. His power numbers are definitely down, but I hope he comes into camp health a starts hitting doubles off the Monster this year.

 

I think we should just sign Shields now and then throw the propects out there at the deadline and bring in a #2. Hamels, Zimmerman, Strasburg, Price and any other top tier pitchers will cost too much to make a trade now.

[cp176]

He wouldn't kid about a thing like that would he?

[mvp 78]

I love Pedey but that trade wouldn't disgust me since they have Betts. Pedroia's health issues are a big concern as he starts his extension. If they could get out from under that deal it should be considered. I don't see it as likely tho and I know you were most likely just kidding around but it's something to consider.

 

No, I'm on board with this deal. Pedroia's contract is too high. He plays in a manner that will shorten his career. They have a replacement in waiting.

[Dojji]

I love Pedey but that trade wouldn't disgust me since they have Betts. Pedroia's health issues are a big concern as he starts his extension. If they could get out from under that deal it should be considered. I don't see it as likely tho and I know you were most likely just kidding around but it's something to consider.

 

yeah. Nothing is sacred in baseball and there's more than a few warning signs with Pedroia. I know people don't necessarily want to see them but they're right there anyway.

[Dojji]

Pedroia's health is a big issue. But 1st off I couldn't imagine the Sox without him and 2nd trading him for one year of Zimmerman is not smart. Peedy is the heart and sole of this team, hurt or not he is the emotional leader alongside Papi. His power numbers are definitely down, but I hope he comes into camp health a starts hitting doubles off the Monster this year.

 

I think we should just sign Shields now and then throw the propects out there at the deadline and bring in a #2. Hamels, Zimmerman, Strasburg, Price and any other top tier pitchers will cost too much to make a trade now.

 

Not against signing shields, but I'm definitely in favor of testing the waters on Pedroia as well as Napoli. Quite frankly, this team isn't close enough to being a contender that we should be afraid to shake things up.

[dupree]

I would trade Betts now. I have said that time and time again. I just see him slumping as the previous prospects before him in his sophomore season and his value drops so far that he could of pulled us in a starting pitcher we need.

 

Peedy is here to stays for years to come and hell he plays all the time hurt or not.

So he is blocked at playing 2nd.

 

The outfield is a log jam. Hanley is gonna be in left that's a given unless Bogey sucks it up. Betts don't have big enough bat the play there. They just signed Castillo and he is to play CF but is said to be a Five Tool player well I can see the argument of allowing him hit in the bottom 1/3 of the lineup to allow him to adjust. Then they have JBJ in the minors who is gold glove defense and if he hits just a lil with the power in this lineup his glove may fit. So I don't see Betts playing there. Only spot I see is right field. But Victorino is said to be healthy and between him, Nava, & Craig one will have to hit for some power and be more of an asset than having Betts hitting at the top of the lineup. A platoon of two of those players will be more productive than Betts alone. His value is as high as it will ever be and now is the time to move him.

 

I could be totally wrong I'm no expert and I will definitely eat crow if Betts comes in a adds the spark to this lineup at the top that we need. I see the leadoff as Castillo spot to lose. Why pay him that much if hes not up to it? It's gonna be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks. I see the Sox trading before they sign Shields in my opinion. I'd do both but that's a pipe dream. I'd say Hamels will be a Sox before it's over. I'm not saying he will fair well in the AL east but I think Ben makes that trade.

[User Name]

Not against signing shields, but I'm definitely in favor of testing the waters on Pedroia as well as Napoli. Quite frankly, this team isn't close enough to being a contender that we should be afraid to shake things up.

 

You're kidding right? This team's an above average starter and a couple decent relievers away from being the hands-on favorite to win the East.

[User Name]

I would trade Betts now. I have said that time and time again. I just see him slumping as the previous prospects before him in his sophomore season and his value drops so far that he could of pulled us in a starting pitcher we need.

 

Peedy is here to stays for years to come and hell he plays all the time hurt or not.

So he is blocked at playing 2nd.

 

The outfield is a log jam. Hanley is gonna be in left that's a given unless Bogey sucks it up. Betts don't have big enough bat the play there. They just signed Castillo and he is to play CF but is said to be a Five Tool player well I can see the argument of allowing him hit in the bottom 1/3 of the lineup to allow him to adjust. Then they have JBJ in the minors who is gold glove defense and if he hits just a lil with the power in this lineup his glove may fit. So I don't see Betts playing there. Only spot I see is right field. But Victorino is said to be healthy and between him, Nava, & Craig one will have to hit for some power and be more of an asset than having Betts hitting at the top of the lineup. A platoon of two of those players will be more productive than Betts alone. His value is as high as it will ever be and now is the time to move him.

 

I could be totally wrong I'm no expert and I will definitely eat crow if Betts comes in a adds the spark to this lineup at the top that we need. I see the leadoff as Castillo spot to lose. Why pay him that much if hes not up to it? It's gonna be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks. I see the Sox trading before they sign Shields in my opinion. I'd do both but that's a pipe dream. I'd say Hamels will be a Sox before it's over. I'm not saying he will fair well in the AL east but I think Ben makes that trade.

 

You probably are and i'd buy some BBQ sauce to put all over that crow.

[mvp 78]

You probably are and i'd buy some BBQ sauce to put all over that crow.

 

I'd prefer Tapatio or Sriracha.

[dupree]

BBQ is fine. Sweet Baby Rays.

 

It's just gonna have to be a wait and see with Betts.

 

I'd rather have to eat crow and apologize and be totally wrong about him and the Sox do well than him sucking and be able to say i told you so. Let me just be the 1st to clarify that.