2014 Offseason Thread

[cp176]

I'm in for Zimmerman.

 

I would not trade Betts. It would pain me to see Owens or Swihart traded but if one of the two went (Owens for me) and they could sign Zimmerman to an extension It would be a power move I think.

[mvp 78]

I would not trade Betts. It would pain me to see Owens or Swihart traded but if one of the two went (Owens for me) and they could sign Zimmerman to an extension It would be a power move I think.

 

Yup. It's only worth their while if they can get the extension. I'd give up Owens if JZ is signed through 2019.

[cp176]

Yup. It's only worth their while if they can get the extension. I'd give up Owens if JZ is signed through 2019.

 

I would do that deal. Hypothetically speaking, if this was the start of 2016 season, we might be in a better position to keep Owens. By then, I think that the catching situation will start to clarify and one our two youngsters very well might get moved.

With what they have already done, trading a young pitching prospect for a fairly young proven power arm makes sense to me.

[a700hitter]

I think they could get close to that value for Zimmerman if they fall out of the race during the season. He could help them win a World Series in 2015 and then they could get a draft pick for him. I think the price will be higher.

[SeanJohn93]

I have always wanted to go to spring training. Is it fun to go to?

[cp176]

I think they could get close to that value for Zimmerman if they fall out of the race during the season. He could help them win a World Series in 2015 and then they could get a draft pick for him. I think the price will be higher.

 

I think that if it were me which it certainly isn't, I don't think that I would give up prospects just for the one year. If I didn't think that I could sign him for 4 or 5 years, I would make a huge play for Shields. Probably wind up grossly over paying for maybe 3 good years. You would have to eat some years I think like many of the super rich owners have, but you would keep your prospects and get a solid arm to go with the rest. I still think that the Sox are in a power position. I don't care when they take advantage of it I just hope they do.

[cp176]

Yup. It's only worth their while if they can get the extension. I'd give up Owens if JZ is signed through 2019.

I also meant to say that losing Owens I think gets covered by Rodriguez. Personal choice but if I had to pick between those two, I would be keeping Rodriguez.

[iortiz]

Couple of things that I have learned today - iortiz should be in contact with some of my golfing buddies. Fall football usually pays for their next years memberships. You can get banned from the site? If you want to get back on, do you have to go to a counseling group? Appropriate internet behavior. once again - some great posters here. When I first started paying attention to this forum, I think that I came in right in the middle of a series of squabbles. They affected me and I reacted in a way that I normally wouldn't. I am sorry for that. Since that time -today is a good example of that- I have realized there are some very good posters here who rarely dwell on the negative. I now have no one on ignore and don't intend to. If someone disagrees with me, I am ok with that. If they get nasty and personal, I might even react. Really, there are very few who tend to do that. It is obvious to everybody on the board. I think the forums have been pretty good for a very down time for us all. I also hope that XB gets it done this year. I believe that he will hit. His fielding will be what it is. He would not be on my no-trade list.

 

haha...Well, I'm not a golfing guy but it would be great to learn a bit and share with you and your friends a couple of shots of bourbons with a cigar while talking about baseball cp.

 

Regarding JZ he would be a nice addition but again... why would we give up top prospects when Shields is still around, and he only would cost money. On the other hand, if they land JZ AND Shields (pipe dream) I'm all for it regardless the names of the prospects.

[Palodios]

The Red Sox's entire rotation is righthanders, and all of their top tier starting prospects are lefthanders.

[cp176]

The Red Sox's entire rotation is righthanders, and all of their top tier starting prospects are lefthanders.

 

Betting on any prospect always is a little shaky but I do like the Rodriguez kid. Owens gets a lot of hype and rightfully so but I think Rodriguez could move quickly. Both 22 - Wow

[Kimmi]

How is that different than here ? Obviously less extreme, but the sides are general well defined. Fellowship of the Miserable has a good ring to it.

 

 

Fellowship of the Miserable has a great ring to it, and it's so fitting for some Red Sox fans.

 

I've only been here a short while, but I like what I've seen so far. The posters here seem very knowledgeable and level headed, for the most part. As someone else mentioned, what can be better than talking Red Sox baseball with a bunch of other fans who are as passionate as you are?

[Kimmi]

I wonder if Hanley will report on time or if he is stupid enough to pull a Manny? If I were him I would have been shagging fly balls all off season and show up early to do even more of it.

 

I wonder if Bradley and Graig have been in the cage at all in the off season.

 

What happens if one of the new starting pitchers shows up with an injury or becomes hurt in spring training? Who takes his place?

 

I have lots of questions.

 

 

This will be an interesting ST. IMO, there are a lot more questions that need to be answered than there have been in past years.

 

As far as Hanley is concerned, I think (hope) that he has matured from the player that we have heard negative things about. It's a good sign that he reached out to the Sox and that he is willingly moving to left field. It's also a very good sign that he and Papi have a good relationship. I can't see him pulling any negative stunts with Papi (and Pedroia) in the clubhouse.

[Kimmi]

I'm in for Zimmerman.

 

 

I'm in too, depending on the cost, of course.

 

This sounds like something that is doable.

 

Rizzo sounds a lot more realistic in his demands than Amaro does.

 

I hope it gets done!

[Bellhorn04]

The term Fellowship of the Miserable, BTW, was coined by Rick Pitino when he was coach of the Celtics.

[Kimmi]

The term Fellowship of the Miserable, BTW, was coined by Rick Pitino when he was coach of the Celtics.

 

 

Good info Bellhorn. I did not know that.

 

Were his teams really bad?

[Spudboy]

I would not trade Betts. It would pain me to see Owens or Swihart traded but if one of the two went (Owens for me) and they could sign Zimmerman to an extension It would be a power move I think.

 

This is exactly how I see it and feel.

[Spudboy]

Good info Bellhorn. I did not know that.

 

Were his teams really bad?

 

Not as bad as Pitino.

[dupree]

The Red Sox's entire rotation is righthanders, and all of their top tier starting prospects are lefthanders.

 

Wade Miley is lefthanded. And he will be in the starting rotation. So four righties and one lefty.

[seabeachfred]

The problem is we don't have enough information to make a definitive decision. Career numbers, especially for young pitchers, can change if there's a break out year. The team could do very well as is, or stay in contention long enough to make a deadline deal, or they could fall flat, or an acquisition now could fail and represent a gross overpay, or do very well. It comes down to gambling, making a bet, and hoping for the best. Hindsight is 20/20. Even simultaneously playing these numerous scenarios in parallel universes wouldn't be definitive proof because a different outcome would probably happen if they were played through again. That may be a conversation killer, but it's reality. Ultimately, people will make a moral argument on what they think should happen and try to convince others of their certainty. The trouble is . . . it's a crapshoot. There is no certainty.

 

That's what it is Prune Face.....a crapshoot. However, a poster has the right to express his opinion in a free exchange and not be attacked for doing it. That does happen here more than it should, and I'm the sort who will not turn the other cheek when I think I'm attacked unfairly. There are those who think the FUO is doing fine, others think they have dropped the ball with two last place finishes surrounding a WS Title. Say why you disagree with a poster instead of attacking him or getting snarky. I have repeatedly said we need a No. 1 pitcher and some have said they disagree and why.....and that's fine. When it becomes an attack and snarky retort then we get mad at one another. OK, let's see what the front office does and let's see if we can all express ourselves without the thought police telling us what we ought to think.

[seabeachfred]

At Sawxheads I had an intimate look at the one thing that can turn a forum into hell. It's when the posters align into two clearly defined parties - the positives and the negatives, or, as seen by the other side, the Front Office Ballwashers and the Fellowship of the Miserable - and it becomes an all-out war of partisan politics and personal attacks.

 

We were both there and know it very well Bellhorn. That split was necessary because the gulf was too wide to overcome. The two sides agreed on nothing. When one group formed their board and the other group stayed and later went to the Bosox Board site, things stabilized and both sites are now well run boards with definite differing philosophies. This board is much larger and the opinions are not two sided. They run the gamut and sometimes so called "allies" are disagreeing with one another and sometimes "antagonists" are on the same page. I have no gripe to anyone who attacks the front office or some of the players, that should be a given. I do have a very big gripe when someone says you can't to that and winds up attacking you. Let's hope we all respect one another this time around in 2015. All I want is a good Red Sox team that makes a good run into the post season and as a Bosox fan none of us should demand anything less.

[seabeachfred]

How is that different than here ? Obviously less extreme, but the sides are general well defined. Fellowship of the Miserable has a good ring to it.

 

For the most part much less extreme, much less. And let's try to keep it that way.

[seabeachfred]

In all honesty guys, I think that this is a very good site. Most, as in a huge majority of posters, can actually have legit debates

even in disagreement. Fred, whom I happen to think would be a good friend to have, always does his thing. Provides food for thought and good humor - something we all need to have. He has two attackers for sure. Probably they feel compelled to go after him on every occasion for some reason. I think that he is tough enough to deal with it. Ball washer no - ball deflater maybe. Fellowship of the miserable - I like that. Most of us live in New England and that can be miserable. When more is actually going on, there will be more substantive material to talk about. Once again, I could care less if people express their views toward the team and its leadership. When you make that kind of money for doing that kind of work, you probably expect ample amounts of good and bad. A forum board to talk Red Sox baseball - could it get any better.

 

Thanks CP----you hit another one off the Green Monster.

[mvp 78]

Read a report of trade talks involving Craig, Kelly, Barnes and other mid level prospects. That just sounds like a too good to be true offer.

[Northern Star]

You couldn't get a bag of baseballs for Craig right now.

[seabeachfred]

I think you have summed up the place pretty well-- not bad for someone still carrying a "Rookie" designation on this site, although you are surely no rookie when it comes to your knowledge of the Red Sox and baseball.

 

Fred is a really good guy. He is an emotional fan, and he comes here to emote. He will go after players and the FO with strong and colorful opinions. I don't understand the mindset of the few who see red at the sight of his name and avatar. I have talked baseball several times with him on the phone. The conversations have always been pleasant even though we don't always agree on the issues. One thing is for sure-- the guy knows a lot about the game. Those who denigrate his opinion are underestimating the source. He's not right about everything, but he is right more than he is wrong. I hope that he is wrong about Bogaerts being a choker, although XB has done nothing to disprove the notion.

 

On the other side of the TalkSox ledger is Pete (SpudBoy). He's the polar opposite of Fred tempermentally, but he is also a great guy and his baseball knowledge shouldn't be underestimated. He isn't overbearing in his opinions, but he has a great base of Red Sox knowldge.

 

We have lots of smart interesting posters. Example has been back more often recently. To say that we used to push each others buttons would be an understatement, but he is one of the more knowledgeable posters who packs a lot of information into every one of his posts. Gladly, we have come to the point where we appreciate each other's point of view and don't see red when we see each others names.

 

Pal is a great and devoted fan. He has a ton of knowledge about baseball and his enthusiasm and positive attitude grows as each season approaches. I still push his buttons, but that is his issue. Guys like Pal take it the hardest when the team goes down the toilet, because they have convinced themselves of the team's competiveness and the good work of the FO. When it goes bad, it is hard for him to come to grips with the reasons as he doesn't like to assign blame. Pal may be a cockeyed optimist, but he isn't a FO ballwasher and sticks around to commiserate with the rest of us when things turn bad.

 

All in all, this is a great place to discuss the Red Sox. It has a good balance. Any omissions were unintentional when mentioning great posters. Bells, iortiz, Elk and many others add to my enjoyment at TS. And I miss Pumpsie, who was unjustly banned IMO.

 

Glad I got on the board today when I did instead of before our telephone conversation. This is a good board and we have some outstanding people on it. It's too bad there are some personality clashes but it shouldn't be too hard to work out. Let's face it, we all love the Red Sox and we have high hopes for them every season.......and face it further, we are all in this together. You're the man Ted.

[Bellhorn04]

We were both there and know it very well Bellhorn. That split was necessary because the gulf was too wide to overcome. The two sides agreed on nothing. When one group formed their board and the other group stayed and later went to the Bosox Board site, things stabilized and both sites are now well run boards with definite differing philosophies. This board is much larger and the opinions are not two sided. They run the gamut and sometimes so called "allies" are disagreeing with one another and sometimes "antagonists" are on the same page. I have no gripe to anyone who attacks the front office or some of the players, that should be a given. I do have a very big gripe when someone says you can't to that and winds up attacking you. Let's hope we all respect one another this time around in 2015. All I want is a good Red Sox team that makes a good run into the post season and as a Bosox fan none of us should demand anything less.

 

Nice post, Fred. I especially like the terms 'allies' and antagonists'.

[seabeachfred]

The issue with Fred is of double standards. He calls people out for leaving the board when he has left the board for long stretches of time as well. He calls people that disagree with him "ballwashers, pollyannas and jock sniffers." However, he completely loses his s*** and is offended if he is called a pink hat or a Dodgers fan, which are apparently personal attacks but "ballwasher" is not. At the end of the day, Fred really is no different than everyone else on here, because we all do relatvely the same thing from time to time. The only difference is that the majority of us have not been temporarily banned for being an ******* or had friends permanently banned. If Fred really wants to move on and be the bigger person, he could. It just willmever happen. He pikes going after people. He secretly likes people going after him.

 

The reality is that this place will never change. People will come and go. Imperial will show up and get really wasted and go after A700. People will have disagreements. Game threads will be horrible. People will take things personally. Some people will be banned. Some former posters will post for a day or two.

 

I think we'd all just be a lot happier if NESN were showing ST footage. It's only a few weeks away and we just need to relax. Baseball is coming. Get hyped.

 

mvp, you really believe that tripe you wrote? I like to go after people, I like being attacked? What nonsense. Look, it is really this simple. I first go after the front office or some player and attack them....them, not a poster. Then some poster comes and attacks me personally from where I retaliate. I have rarely gone after a poster in a personal attack and it I have I sure as hell can't remember when. I have the right to attack someone in the Red Sox organization and not get personally attacked back, and, damn it, you know the two people who made a cottage industry of doing just that----one who is no longer here. Me move on? Absolutely....don't attack me personally when I attack the front office. Sure, tell me why you disagree with me without getting personal and you'll get no retort from me. Now let's see start keeping score on that like you like to do. You'll see that I am pretty much spot on with what I just wrote.

[seabeachfred]

I have zero motivation to call Fred. He comes across on the board as someone who relishes in misery and complaints about life. I have better things to do with my free time than to chat with him. If he want to hear someone drone on and on about the bums on the Sox, I'd rather just call my wife's grampa in FL.

 

If he wants to be nice, he can just be nice. If he wants to continue to act the way he acts, that's fine too.

 

The fact that he intentionally tries to goad people into s*** (see his "haha I fooled you comment") he has little ground to stand on when he complains about UN to every new poster.

 

Misery and complaints about life. Sorry mvp, you're knowledge of what I am like isn't worth a warm pitcher of spit. I am a happily married man for over 44 years with a wonderful wife, had a good career as a teacher and coach and am fortunate enough to have made some very nice friends over the years. There isn't one person I know personally who ascribes to me your take on my personality and you couldn't be more wrong if you took a 100 question test and got every one of them wrong. Personally, I'm beginning to think you just enjoy having your pre-conceived notions of what kind of person I am because it puts you in some sort of comfort zone but you are as wrong as you can be.

[seabeachfred]

Thanks Ted.

 

It is just a hobby in order to put more excitement and interest to the game. I began with 100 bucks and after 3 years running this model I have made around 10,000 USD, not bad for a fan huh LOL!. Even if I lose this money (unlikely considering the W tendency), it is still the money of the house haha. I see this just as the stock market... but instead of using economic metrics, I use a combination of basic and advanced baseball metrics arranged in a numeric method suggested by an IBM SPSS software (Recently incorporated to my model). I think I said before but this model works pretty decent (72 % of Hit Rate last season) when you bet on 4 1/2 handicap bets at bet365.com since it gives you an edge to away teams and makes it interesting in parlay/multilines tickets when these away teams are underdogs and their pitchers are at least their No. 2s.

 

iortiz, I didn't know you were a Daddy Warbucks. Well I know who I can count on if I want to come into some needed cash.:cool: You might try telling me what you thinks the odds are for our getting out of the cellar and having a good season. And, good luck, keep winning and let the money keep rolling in. And keep posting. I like having you around.

[seabeachfred]

Then maybe everyone should just call me on the phone and talk to me offline to see what I'm all about then? It's clearly the only way to get to know how people really are on here.

 

OK, send me an e-mail or private note with where I can contact you and I will. Let's see if you're really on the level.