2014 Offseason Thread

[RedSoxNC84]

I say the Sox do sign Lester.. it's going to be around 150M or maybe a little more.

[User Name]

For the record, "inside sources" suggest the Yanks prefer Scherzer to Lester. That is a reason to be terrified.

[Bellhorn04]

No one said it would be "easy". But it's certainly possible. And even if they got Lester, they still need to trade from their OF surplus. The formula's there, sign and trade, the issue is putting a name on he who shall be signed and he who shall be traded for.

 

It's also clearly not as difficult as you're making it out to be. There are available arms, and the Sox have money and surplus talent. Stop your slow and steady descent into the dark side.

 

I'm not going to the dark side, seriously. About 90% of the time I'm still even-keeled about it all. Some things I do get emotional about. Losing a guy like Lester is one of them. But I'll get over it.

[Palodios]

Yes they can, and they have confirmed as much with their affirmation that they would go over the salary cap if needed. This is the Boston Red Sox we're talking about, not the San Diego Padres.

 

They're pretty close to the luxury cap already at -- what I've read to be -- 181 million. They still need a backup catcher, that's 3-4 million. Maybe another reliever, 3-5 million more. That'll get them to the 220 or 230s, and lock them into the luxury tax for several years. If they trade Betts, they can't pare payroll by trading Vic/Cespedes/Craig. I don't see that happening.

[mvp 78]

Prune Face, I AM already on the Grassy Knoll, but guess what? I for got my ammunition. How about you and BSN bring me some. I can't leave here or I'll blow my cover. All BS aside, I think getting a No. 3 or a No 3-4 type is the best we are going to get for Cespedes unless he is part of a bigger trade for a top notch No. 1 type like Hamels. Even then I think the Phillies would want someone either better than Cespedes and or someone with longer contract obligations to the Phillies. Get Porcello or Kennedy and take our chances.

Our staff has enough 3-4's.

[mvp 78]

Should have said that to Pruney when I answered his post. LIRIANO DOES SUCK AND HE ADDS VERY LITTLE TO OUR ROTATION AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW EXCEPT TO MAKE IT STINK MORE.

 

I'm glad you agree.

[mvp 78]

Is Edes someone who is trustworthy or is he dispensing some more s***? I remember him when he wrote out here for the Los Angeles Times and he had his nose so far up the Dodger front office's ass that he was always gasping for breath. I promised I wouldn't go to the ledge until after New Year's but I don't believe a think I hear from that guy. What actually is he saying?

 

Edes is a dipshit.

[Palodios]

Ben Cherrington saying that he has pursued 15-20 different pitchers. Say what you will, but the guy definitely covers his options.

[mvp 78]

Hey mvp, I hope you don't mind me playing copy cat, but between Rosenthal and Abraham, f*** THAT!!!!!!!!

 

You owe me royalties.

[Spudboy]

From Trade Rumors:

 

East Rumors: Masterson, Byrd, Red Sox

By Zach Links [December 8, 2014 at 9:01pm CST]

 

The latest from the AL and NL East..

 

The Red Sox have made an offer to Justin Masterson, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (on Twitter). The pitcher is also talking with the Rangers, Marlins, White Sox, Royals, Giants, Twins, and others. Earlier today we learned that the Rangers have made an offer to Masterson, their first concrete bid for a free agent starter this winter.

If the Orioles look to the trade market for a bat, Phillies outfielder Marlon Byrd is a name on their radar, sources tell Jayson Stark of ESPN.com (via Twitter).

Red Sox GM Ben Cherington told reporters, including Jason Mastrodonato of The Springfield Republican (via Twitter) that the team has targeted 15-20 starting pitchers via free agency and trade. So far, they’ve had advanced conversations for a few of them.

Phillies GM Ruben Amaro says reports of him asking for too much in trades are “a bunch of malarkey,” according to Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer (on Twitter).

[Spudboy]

15-20 potential targets???

 

Are there that many MLB pitchers available?

[example1]

I haven't been around here very much for the past few years, but is it common to hit reply on 6 posts within about 20 minutes time? Hell, I spend that amount of time on ONE post. (not this one).

 

As for Lester, if he's pushing 7 years and 150m then go ahead and count me out. He's simply not that good. There are plenty of good baseball players in the world. it may impact them in 2015 but think about where this team is poised to go. they have young prime and pre-prime talent scattered all over the field. They have some decent young pitchers who, even if others have written them off, still stand a chance to be pretty good. They have a ton of money.

 

I agree with a700 that SP is at a premium, I just disagree that this means the Sox have to do the equivalent of buying a house when the market is absurdly high. It's too risky. Hell, even if they signed Lester AND traded for Hamels there's no assurance they win a single WS. At some point that's based on luck and other factors unrelated to a single SP being on the team or not. I would prefer Lester, but I'm going to continue being a fan if they don't get him.

[Bellhorn04]

As for Lester, if he's pushing 7 years and 150m then go ahead and count me out. He's simply not that good. There are plenty of good baseball players in the world. it may impact them in 2015 but think about where this team is poised to go. they have young prime and pre-prime talent scattered all over the field. They have some decent young pitchers who, even if others have written them off, still stand a chance to be pretty good. They have a ton of money.

 

I agree with a700 that SP is at a premium, I just disagree that this means the Sox have to do the equivalent of buying a house when the market is absurdly high. It's too risky. Hell, even if they signed Lester AND traded for Hamels there's no assurance they win a single WS. At some point that's based on luck and other factors unrelated to a single SP being on the team or not. I would prefer Lester, but I'm going to continue being a fan if they don't get him.

 

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that the market may stay absurdly high for a few more years. There are more teams now with money to throw around. It's at a point where even the richest teams can't find any easy route to upgrading their team.

 

If Cherington can put together a playoff-caliber rotation without blowing the budget sky-high or raping the farm, it'll be his finest hour.

[example1]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that the market may stay absurdly high for a few more years. There are more teams now with money to throw around. It's at a point where even the richest teams can't find any easy route to upgrading their team.

 

If Cherington can put together a playoff-caliber rotation without blowing the budget sky-high or raping the farm, it'll be his finest hour.

 

So they should avoid playing the market at all costs. Strike where the market is lowest and spend only when you absolutely need to. The market can't stay THAT high if there are 10 good SPs instead of only 2.

[a700hitter]

If front line pitching ends up being prohibitively expensive for the Red Sox, they probably should not have spent $200 million on Panda and Hanley. Without a good staff, it is still a 4th place team.

[RedSoxNC84]

Why are they making an offer to Masterson...

[a700hitter]

Why are they making an offer to Masterson...

I guess the dreams of Lester/Shields or Lester/Hamel's were just dreams.

[BSN07]

I haven't been around here very much for the past few years, but is it common to hit reply on 6 posts within about 20 minutes time? Hell, I spend that amount of time on ONE post. (not this one).

 

As for Lester, if he's pushing 7 years and 150m then go ahead and count me out. He's simply not that good. There are plenty of good baseball players in the world. it may impact them in 2015 but think about where this team is poised to go. they have young prime and pre-prime talent scattered all over the field. They have some decent young pitchers who, even if others have written them off, still stand a chance to be pretty good. They have a ton of money.

 

I agree with a700 that SP is at a premium, I just disagree that this means the Sox have to do the equivalent of buying a house when the market is absurdly high. It's too risky. Hell, even if they signed Lester AND traded for Hamels there's no assurance they win a single WS. At some point that's based on luck and other factors unrelated to a single SP being on the team or not. I would prefer Lester, but I'm going to continue being a fan if they don't get him.

 

This^

[iortiz]

If front line pitching ends up being prohibitively expensive for the Red Sox, they probably should not have spent $200 million on Panda and Hanley. Without a good staff, it is still a 4th place team.

 

Unless we have an ace in the farm near to debut, which I doubt it, we have to make us to the idea that we have to compromise 50 + M every year from now for at least 2 solid SPs. I'm tired of this pitching issue. This is the BOS Red Sox we are talking about, not the KCR... So JH surely will overpay if he hits the FA, but every offseason is always the same with big fish FAs anyway, we must get used to that.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Are points of discussion more valid if they're made in all Caps or is there another reason for doing it?

[pruneface]

Are points of discussion more valid if they're made in all Caps or is there another reason for doing it?

For the visually impaired.

[pruneface]

Should have said that to Pruney when I answered his post. LIRIANO DOES SUCK AND HE ADDS VERY LITTLE TO OUR ROTATION AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW EXCEPT TO MAKE IT STINK MORE.

Liriano still strikes out better than a batter per inning. That indicates to me that he still has good stuff. He could be a good gamble as a reclamation project. Better than Masterson, anyway, whom they purportedly gave an offer to. It all depends on what kind of deal Liriano signs for.

 

I agree with most of what example1 wrote above. These numbers and years floating around are insane. Sox shouldn't hamstring their future on one guy. s***, they should have internalized that lesson with Agon and Crawford. Better to get some decent number 3's for the rotation - maybe a number two - and keep building the farm, where the real heart of the organization lies. Sox should be competitive even without a bonafide ace. You never know who'll step it up.

Edited December 9, 2014 by pruneface

[BSN07]

Lester has 6-7 year offers in hand for estimated 150-175M and more owners are getting involved. Think it is time to close the book on Lester and move on.

[mvp 78]

They don't need reclamation projects or gambles (isn't that what Buchholz is anyway). They need 2 front end guys.

[cp176]

If Lester comes our way so be it. If he doesn't - move on. He may be the best #2 starter in the game. A big innings eater but certainly not the best in the game. He isn't worth the kind of $ it looks like he may get. I would like to see him in Boston but the Sox are cash loaded.

[a700hitter]

Lester has 6-7 year offers in hand for estimated 150-175M and more owners are getting involved. Think it is time to close the book on Lester and move on.

Get Scherzer-- better stuff and less innings on his arm.

[mvp 78]

Get Scherzer-- better stuff and less innings on his arm.

 

And it'll be a joy to hear Joe Buck wax poetic about him all game long.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox are mired in “a mess of their own making” after “lowballing” Jon Lester last spring, Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald writes. That reported $70MM offer (which the team later characterized as merely a starting point) got negotiations off on the wrong foot, and the team wound up dealing Lester to Oakland in July. Of course, the Red Sox could still end up signing Lester, and if they don’t, there are alternatives, like Cole Hamels or Max Scherzer. But if they don’t, Silverman writes, their decisions last spring will remain in question

The initial offer of $70 million will end up being less than half of what he will get. That wasn't a reasonable starting point. It didn't show good faith. It demonstrated the opposite. But we will have to move on. That doesn't change the fact that they f***ed this up.

[User Name]

Why are they making an offer to Masterson...

 

Masterson is a good starter who dealt with injuries and bad luck last year. As far as mid-rotation starters go, he's about as sure a thing as you can get. Certainly more consistent and effective than Liriano et al, inability to consistently get lefties out notwithstanding.

[Bellhorn04]

Get Scherzer-- better stuff and less innings on his arm.

 

And you might be able to get him for a hair under $200 million.