Rating Ben Cherington

[seabeachfred]

Cherington grade: A, this season ... and it can't be separated from the ownership for the first time in 2 or 3 years, focusing on letting the baseball ops work on their own time horizons.

 

Cherington will have to be looked upon as a serious candidate for Executive of the Year for his work last off season in getting the reinforcements that made the Red Sox a team with a tremendous chemistry along with their terrific recovery from the dregs of the 2012 season. Needless to say to those of you who remember my deep distrust and disrespect of this guy after his less than stellar handling of the 2012 personnel, this is a mea culpa on my part. I don't know where this season is going the next month or so, but for a team that was 69-93 and dead last in the AL East last year to come back and be one win away from an AL East Title with a 93-61 record this season, well it stands to reason the guy has done a helluva job. He got players that knew how to win, who knew how to get along, who created a positive atmosphere in the clubhouse, and who had a pride in playing for the Red Sox. He deserves a lot of credit and will get just that.

 

I might add, though, that it appears from what I've read here and on other boards and blogs that this season Lucchino, Werner and Henry kept their grimy hands off the baseball part of the operation and let Farrell and Cherington run the show. The lack of meddling certainly didn't hurt a bit.

[User Name]

So Fred, correct if i'm wrong, but are you saying that Ben Cherington is not a (quote) procrastinating errand boy piece of s*** (/quote)?

 

Are you saying that, after giving the guy some time instead of rushing to judge and s*** all over him, it turns out the guy is actually competent?

 

Are you saying that you and your buddies who came to s*** on the parade of anyone who dared had a positive outlook on the team after last year's disaster were completely and utterly wrong?

 

Is that what you're saying?

[mvp 78]

I like this new and improved Fred. He should stick around.

[Palodios]

I was wondering that too. My guess was that Palodios was only counting free agents. Carp was a trade, though not for much.

 

Right -- the Cherrington Seven does not include trades. Mostly because his other trades have been meh.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

You have to say the proof is in winning the AL East. He has done an excellent job assembling a very cohesive team.

[seabeachfred]

So Fred, correct if i'm wrong, but are you saying that Ben Cherington is not a (quote) procrastinating errand boy piece of s*** (/quote)?

 

Are you saying that, after giving the guy some time instead of rushing to judge and s*** all over him, it turns out the guy is actually competent?

 

Are you saying that you and your buddies who came to s*** on the parade of anyone who dared had a positive outlook on the team after last year's disaster were completely and utterly wrong?

 

Is that what you're saying?

 

I figure you are educated and intelligent enough to glean what I said and come up with a conclusion. Please don't tell me that you believed the team would win the AL East User, but, yes, I was wrong....and as you ought to know by now if I am wrong I will admit it. I was wrong. And glad I was. IMHO, though, I think Ben was helped this season when John Henry gave him the keys to the baseball operation and let him and Farrell run the show on the field. Up to know it has been a smashing success and I will guarantee you no one is more happier than I am right now......as happy, certainly, but not any more.

[Orange Juiced]

Well, even if they lose in the ALDS (which I don't think they will), this season has already been a smashing success, in every conceivable way. I thought they'd win roughly 88-90 games and be in the playoff hunt at the end of the season. I thought that was their ceiling, and if they got into the playoffs somehow, well great, anything can happen. But win the division in dominating fashion? No way. I didn't think they'd win upper 90's games.

 

I was arguing before the season started that they viewed this as a bridge year (I hate the term, but you know what I mean) to when all these prospects would start coming up and making an impact. I thought they wanted to field a competitive team without giving away any of their young studs. I thought they wanted to structure their payroll so that they wouldn't be locked into any gruesome Crawford-type deals, and that when this bridge was crossed, they'd have been competitive, but ready to turn it over to the next generation of homegrown stars. That was the plan, I thought.

 

I did NOT think they would come out and just dominate baseball this year. I didn't expect Buchholz to be undefeated with a sub-2 era. I expected Lackey to be pretty decent, but not this good. I didn't expect Uehara to be the best reliever in the game. I'm just amazed at how this all came together. Other than the injuries, and the struggles of Middlebrooks (who I thought would have a better season), pretty much everything has fallen into place for them this year. This is magical.

 

And I don't think they're done yet. I think they win the ALDS and play in the ALCS. From there....who knows. But what a ride it's been.

 

And it's all happened without forfeiting any of their young stud prospects, so the future looks just as bright (brighter, even) as it did during spring training.

 

Absolutely amazing season. Well done, everybody.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

I keep hearing as an excuse that obviously we exceeded expectations because Henry & Co. left Ben alone to run things. I find this an interesting theory, but wonder where is the proof? I'm not doubting anyone who is using this excuse to being wrong about Cherington. What I am asking is where is the proof to this idea? Just curious since a lot of people on here seem to know what is definitely going on in the inner workings of the Red Sox.

(Also, did you feel the same way when Cherington made the moves he did in the offseason?)

[SoxSport]

Ben is getting a lot of media waves, but he was also the GM last year and contributed to the fiasco. Henry bailed him out with the Dodger deal. Plus a few FO additions, including re-hiring James. He has a ton of money to work with, and used it up pre-season signing almost anybody who would take 3 years or less. And it's worked out. You got to give him credit for getting pieces that fit--for the most part. This is now a $170 million team that plays like it should.

 

Farrell and the coaches made the real difference vs the previous year. He deserves MOY to this point. And you can't underestimate the coaches--Nieves and the two guys he brought with him from Toronto--especially the bench coach. Further, he had the support of the whole organization--everybody working in sync. That was not the case last year.

 

In my view, the execs that deserve the most credit are the ones that do it with little or no money. That would be Billy Beane, the no-name Pirate GM, the KC and TB GMs, and even Dan Duquette of the Os. Anybody can buy FAs with an open wallet. These guys do it with smarts and a farm system. The media has yet to make that distinction.

[SoxSport]

I keep hearing as an excuse that obviously we exceeded expectations because Henry & Co. left Ben alone to run things. I find this an interesting theory, but wonder where is the proof? I'm not doubting anyone who is using this excuse to being wrong about Cherington. What I am asking is where is the proof to this idea? Just curious since a lot of people on here seem to know what is definitely going on in the inner workings of the Red Sox.

(Also, did you feel the same way when Cherington made the moves he did in the offseason?)

 

You're absolutely right. Nobody knows what goes on upstairs. The media isn't telling--even if they know. You have to judge for yourself what people do and what they say in public. And disregard media opinion, some of which is agenda ridden.

[Bellhorn04]

Ben is getting a lot of media waves, but he was also the GM last year and contributed to the fiasco. Henry bailed him out with the Dodger deal. Plus a few FO additions, including re-hiring James. He has a ton of money to work with, and used it up pre-season signing almost anybody who would take 3 years or less. And it's worked out. You got to give him credit for getting pieces that fit--for the most part. This is now a $170 million team that plays like it should.

 

Farrell and the coaches made the real difference vs the previous year. He deserves MOY to this point. And you can't underestimate the coaches--Nieves and the two guys he brought with him from Toronto--especially the bench coach. Further, he had the support of the whole organization--everybody working in sync. That was not the case last year.

 

In my view, the execs that deserve the most credit are the ones that do it with little or no money. That would be Billy Beane, the no-name Pirate GM, the KC and TB GMs, and even Dan Duquette of the Os. Anybody can buy FAs with an open wallet. These guys do it with smarts and a farm system. The media has yet to make that distinction.

 

More dopey nonsense.

 

Cherington wanted Farrell as manager going back to last year. Cherington is responsible for the coaching changes.

 

And opening the wallet for FA's doesn't always work. Just ask the Angels.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cherington should win GM of the last 14 months or so. His trade with LA might be the best trade of all time from a chemistry and financial perspective. And while none of his moves we're flashy, they were all effective

[User Name]

You're absolutely right. Nobody knows what goes on upstairs. The media isn't telling--even if they know. You have to judge for yourself what people do and what they say in public. And disregard media opinion, some of which is agenda ridden.

 

This is posted right after a post where you make an assessment based on something you now claim nobody knows. You sure as hell don't, but don't think twice about making s*** up. Please stop.

[Dojji]

Cherington should win GM of the last 14 months or so. His trade with LA might be the best trade of all time from a chemistry and financial perspective. And while none of his moves we're flashy, they were all effective

 

that trade had the benefit of being a win win. Arguably, the trade between Boston and LA put both teams in position to contend.

 

Which is great. It should mean that the next time cherington picks up the phone and calls down to LA, he'll get a good reception.

[Behindenemylines]

Not a lot of things have gone wrong for B.C. since the trade last August. It seems when something went wrong (Early closing duties) something fell in place (Uehara) to correct it. I can't see any other G.M. that has reversed his team's coarse over the last year.

[jung]

Not only did the closer thing fall right for BC, but he now has experienced what happens when you try to buy a closer and what happens when you sift one out of the pen.....Hopefully we have seen the last of a Red Sox GM trying to buy a closer, at least for awhile.

 

As for where the credit goes for what is happening on the field.....baseball has turned into a very individualistic, self centered game. In truth, Managers and GM's have very little control over what these guys do with the exception of the guys that are waiting for FA to come around.

 

That the everyday players decided to rally around an offensive process that required tremendous discipline especially over the long haul of the season is amazing to me in this day and age. To be honest, I think the players deserve the bulk of the credit for that. There is nothing but the other players in the clubhouse and each individual's perspective that would prevent a player or players from going off the rails. We have seen what happens when even a few guys go off the rails. It becomes very difficult to keep the rest from also going off the rails.

 

As for Farrell, we are conveniently forgetting the golden rule for managers in contemporary baseball...."first do no harm". Do not make enemies of your ballplayers. Do not foster controversy and angst. Be a fatherly presence and a confidant to the players and set a tone of resisting the temptation to just stick your hands into the locker room mix and shake it up just for the sake of doing it...something V could not resist. Beyond that, it is fill out the lineup card and in-game decisions. Frankly I have not been real thrilled with Farrell's line up decisions and there are parts of his in-game management that were really questionable and cost this team games this year. He is loyal to players but to a fault. First it was Bailey who cost us several games in a row early in the season and more recently it has been Drew favored entirely over XB even in situations where XB should clearly play. But I still contend that the Sox had no idea they were going to be where they are right now and they believed Farrell would grow into the job. I believe he has grown into the job and makes fewer mistakes now than he made at the start of the year. Still don't like some of the running game decisions and the freedom Butterfield has out there and HATE how much they shift.

 

That leaves BC. What I do credit him for is not ignoring the "other side" of these ballplayers. Even when James was not around we seemed to completely ignore who the ballplayer was in favor of what his "numbers" said he might produce on the field and we ended up with a hacked up, f***ed up team for it. In fact it was not a team at all. The result of BC's perspective was a team that would sacrifice for each other, that would to a man stay disciplined for an entire year. Also and finally, he brought us Jake Peavy. It does not matter that Peavy may likely fall to the bottom of a four man post season rotation. The fact of the matter is that Peavy's bulldog, take no prisoners attitude fostered a competitive spirit amongst the rotation guys to the point where I suspect that they now have breakfast together and compete over who can eat the most nails. There is no question as the difference in the rotation guys is palatable since Peavy came aboard. Peavy not only came on board just as it became clear Buch would be gone for awhile but he fostered the kind of rotation and pitching staff attitude that is the pitching equivalent of what the everyday player have. Peavy was IMO a tremendous move.

 

BC should be exec of the year...not even close. Not as sure about Farrell for manager of the year.

[seabeachfred]

Well, even if they lose in the ALDS (which I don't think they will), this season has already been a smashing success, in every conceivable way. I thought they'd win roughly 88-90 games and be in the playoff hunt at the end of the season. I thought that was their ceiling, and if they got into the playoffs somehow, well great, anything can happen. But win the division in dominating fashion? No way. I didn't think they'd win upper 90's games.

 

I was arguing before the season started that they viewed this as a bridge year (I hate the term, but you know what I mean) to when all these prospects would start coming up and making an impact. I thought they wanted to field a competitive team without giving away any of their young studs. I thought they wanted to structure their payroll so that they wouldn't be locked into any gruesome Crawford-type deals, and that when this bridge was crossed, they'd have been competitive, but ready to turn it over to the next generation of homegrown stars. That was the plan, I thought.

 

I did NOT think they would come out and just dominate baseball this year. I didn't expect Buchholz to be undefeated with a sub-2 era. I expected Lackey to be pretty decent, but not this good. I didn't expect Uehara to be the best reliever in the game. I'm just amazed at how this all came together. Other than the injuries, and the struggles of Middlebrooks (who I thought would have a better season), pretty much everything has fallen into place for them this year. This is magical.

 

And I don't think they're done yet. I think they win the ALDS and play in the ALCS. From there....who knows. But what a ride it's been.

 

And it's all happened without forfeiting any of their young stud prospects, so the future looks just as bright (brighter, even) as it did during spring training.

 

Absolutely amazing season. Well done, everybody.

 

No question that no matter what happens from here on in this season has been an outstanding success. I mean, who even dreamed we would have 94 wins and a nine game lead with still seven games to go when the season started? The only thing I dreamed was that since the AL East was wide open this season, 700 Hitter and I thought we might sneak in a take the division with about 84 or 85 wins----that is, if all the breaks came our way. In other words, little if any chance for that to happen. I think we have to keep this whole thing is perspective if things go South for us in the Playoffs. Still, from what I've seen of our club this season, it is going to take a pretty damn good team to stop us. Our chances seem as good as anyone else's.

[Palodios]

Not a lot of things have gone wrong for B.C. since the trade last August. It seems when something went wrong (Early closing duties) something fell in place (Uehara) to correct it. I can't see any other G.M. that has reversed his team's coarse over the last year.

 

I disagree with this. Hanrahan, Bailey, Miller, Wilson were all late inning bullpen options that were hurt. The starting third baseman was very ineffective the first half of the year. Their top CF prospect started in the majors and pretty much fell on his face, and depth option Kalish had season ending surgery again. Their franchise DH started the season on the DL, and the team's ace spent most of the season on the DL as well. The guys he traded away -- Gonzalez, Crawford, Melancon and even Punto have been very successful. Hell, there was a national tragedy one mile away from the stadium.

 

The reason why the Red Sox have been successful is that Ben built a considerable amount of depth. Guys that some called unnecessary, like Drew, Gomes, Dempster may not have been superstars, but when more significant players have been hurt, they've filled in well, and they've played much better than replacement level AAAA guys would have.

[User Name]

I disagree with this. Hanrahan, Bailey, Miller, Wilson were all late inning bullpen options that were hurt. The starting third baseman was very ineffective the first half of the year. Their top CF prospect started in the majors and pretty much fell on his face, and depth option Kalish had season ending surgery again. Their franchise DH started the season on the DL, and the team's ace spent most of the season on the DL as well. The guys he traded away -- Gonzalez, Crawford, Melancon and even Punto have been very successful. Hell, there was a national tragedy one mile away from the stadium.

 

The reason why the Red Sox have been successful is that Ben built a considerable amount of depth. Guys that some called unnecessary, like Drew, Gomes, Dempster may not have been superstars, but when more significant players have been hurt, they've filled in well, and they've played much better than replacement level AAAA guys would have.

 

Gonzales and Crawford have not produced 20 million seasons, and Punto's been deployed in a platoon/part-time role.

[Palodios]

Gonzales and Crawford have not produced 20 million seasons, and Punto's been deployed in a platoon/part-time role.

 

I never said they were worth the money.

[User Name]

I never said they were worth the money.

 

Then how have they been successful? Crawford has pretty much sucked, and Gonzalez has been a mid-tier 1B this season. "Mediocre seasons" is more apropos.

[seabeachfred]

Then how have they been successful? Crawford has pretty much sucked, and Gonzalez has been a mid-tier 1B this season. "Mediocre seasons" is more apropos.

 

Crawford seems to be a shell of the player he once was and I get the strong feeling after watching on TV out here that he has his share of troubles performing in a high tension environment. Keep in mind that he played in the relative graveyard quiet of Tampa Bay all those years where there was little pressure from the press and fans. When he got to Boston he, by his own admission, admitted that it was a lot more expectations arising than he had expected. He seemed to melt from the pressure and along with his injuries was pretty much cheered out of town by everyone----as was Beckett who went from savior to ******** in the space of four seasons. Gonzales could have been a stalwart for us for years but in order to clean the decks we had to let him go, especially when the Bums were willing to take Carl and Josh off our hands. I don't know about you or anyone else but I don't miss them one bit. I do not think they were real Red Sox type players.

[sk7326]

Ben is getting a lot of media waves, but he was also the GM last year and contributed to the fiasco. Henry bailed him out with the Dodger deal. Plus a few FO additions, including re-hiring James. He has a ton of money to work with, and used it up pre-season signing almost anybody who would take 3 years or less. And it's worked out. You got to give him credit for getting pieces that fit--for the most part. This is now a $170 million team that plays like it should.

 

Farrell and the coaches made the real difference vs the previous year. He deserves MOY to this point. And you can't underestimate the coaches--Nieves and the two guys he brought with him from Toronto--especially the bench coach. Further, he had the support of the whole organization--everybody working in sync. That was not the case last year.

 

In my view, the execs that deserve the most credit are the ones that do it with little or no money. That would be Billy Beane, the no-name Pirate GM, the KC and TB GMs, and even Dan Duquette of the Os. Anybody can buy FAs with an open wallet. These guys do it with smarts and a farm system. The media has yet to make that distinction.

 

Last year's fiasco was so out of character from the way the organization had operated until then, that is seems VERY unlikely that the GM was driving on a lot of it. I can't sit here and say Ben was not culpable. But this was arguably the best organization in baseball until essentially attention to non-baseball things threw stuff out of kilter. And even then, it was a bunch of injury-related historical "right end of the bell curve" hooey which drove it. Last year was an overreaction to 2011 - the work of a team which was listening to WEEI instead of actually paying attention to what their people were saying. Fortunately the embarassment was abject enough to essentially undo their mistakes and get back to the apparatus Epstein and company (Ben of course part of said company) put together before. Frankly we were lucky that the opportunity was possible to hire a manager who knew the operation, and that there was a trade to create some financial flexibility. And then that there was a suitor who would take the money. And then that the baseball people figured out how to make the deal a good baseball deal and not just a straight dump.

 

This is not to bash the ownership per se. This is CLEARLY the best ownership the Sox have ever had - the proof is everywhere. But part of their best was hiring and delegating the baseball stuff to the brightest folks. That slipped last season with move after move right out of the Steinbrenner of the 1980s script. Crawford, Gonzalez did not work out - but they were all elite gets of their class, and mistakes that 29 other owners would have made given the chance. You generally do not expect a 29 year old 1B to turn into a pumpkin after one season - nor an elite athletic LF to forget how to play baseball. The good thing was last year's failure was bad enough that the ownership got right with going back to the formula which worked.

 

Farrell has done a good job. He will win manager of the year because seasons like this guarantee that. It is hard to evaluate the "clubhouse" stuff a manager does (and that is a lot of the job) - but he handles the media well, and is not a lunatic fishing for a paycheck. Valentine was such a poor communicator with his coaching staff (let alone his players) that any sort of normal human being would have done well - and frankly this season has been a lot about just things that should work working. Ellsbury being a brilliant CF, Pedroia going back to being Petey, Lester finding his command and confidence, Lackey finding his quasi-Cy form from his Angel days. It has also been about a phenomenal stroke of luck in Victorino's season (driven by a rather fortunate injury which got him hitting from his stronger side full time) which his age:trend combination did not forecast. (even optimistically, "down-ballot MVP" was not in the cards) Farrell has done a good job managing the platoons, getting the right guys out there in the right spots - which is what a manager does more than anything else. His bullpen usage has been curious at times - and a little bit too "Tony LaRussa-ish" at times, but he has generally run the pitching staff well. Most importantly, the coaching staff is on the same page.

 

The funny thing identified about Friedman and Huntington is that they have done it with no money, yes ... but a LOT of very high draft picks - which is also a big edge. It's not that these teams are not spending (or at least prior to the current CBA), it was that they decided to pour the money into the scouting and development and the draft. Duquette did not make the Chris Davis trade nor did he draft Manny Machado (though he does credit for aggressively promoting him). That fell into his lap (Koji Uehara giveth, Koji taketh away). The manager was already there even (and is one of the best at developing kids).

[User Name]

A++, with the team Bodacious Ben assembled a win away from winning it all. The haters can suck it, and the best move of the year was a non-move. Had Ben given in to fan and media pressure and traded Workman or a guy like Doubront for Papelbon, we're probably not in this position right now.

[Youk Of The Nation]

A few months ago I would have said that Cherington was the David Ortiz of the front office. Now the Sox are up 3-2 in the World Series, and I am forced to conclude that David Ortiz is in fact the Ben Cherington of the lineup.

[User Name]

^Sig-worthy.

[Palodios]

A few months ago I would have said that Cherington was the David Ortiz of the front office. Now the Sox are up 3-2 in the World Series, and I am forced to conclude that David Ortiz is in fact the Ben Cherington of the lineup.

 

[Dojji]

It's nice to know that this is an organization that can realize when it's going wrong, and have the humility at the top to turn it around and get things right.

 

You'd be surprised how rare that can be.

[seabeachfred]

It's nice to know that this is an organization that can realize when it's going wrong, and have the humility at the top to turn it around and get things right.

 

You'd be surprised how rare that can be.

 

Well Cherington's critics are going to have to re-evaluate their opinions of him and do it on the fly. I already have. Come what may tonight and or tomorrow, he is Major League Executive of the Year. I'm now sold.

[Orange Juiced]

It's nice when most of your moves work out beyond your wildest imaginations.