A-Rod's Future (Bans, Injuries and Fraud)

[Emmz]

One last point before bed time:

 

Andy Pettite doesn't need to be demonized, he didn't kill anyone, and I'm not treating him like he did. He did HGH to get a competitive edge. It really isn't that big of a deal, but one thing I do have a problem with is that a lot of Yankees fans, not necessarily you, are constantly defending Pettite's character or in this case, using his supposedly exceptional character to try and illustrate that he's probably not lying. There's been a LOT of evidence of the contrary, and I could have gone in any number of directions to demonstrate that he's at least dishonest.

 

Div was actually the one who brought Andy's exceptional character and devoutness into the discussion:

 

Andy is a honest and decent guy, which is why he stepped up and made these admissions, he's also deeply religious. I think it's likely he was in fact telling the truth.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Emmz

[Divinity]

No one is perfect, people make mistakes. A major aspect of his religion (Christianity) is atonement.

 

If he was going to atone, lying to everyone is not the best way to start that process. I have no reason to think he wasn't truthful when he made those admissions.

 

I really don't think he was a chronic HGH user who primarily used it to try gain a competitive edge as Emmz claims. If he was truly looking for an edge he would have used steroids along with it.

[Emmz]

No one is perfect, people make mistakes. A major aspect of his religion (Christianity) is atonement.

 

If he was going to atone, lying to everyone is not the best way to start that process. I have no reason to think he wasn't truthful when he made those admissions.

 

I really don't think he was a chronic HGH user who primarily used it to try gain a competitive edge as Emmz claims. If he was truly looking for an edge he would have used steroids along with it.

 

Using HGH to return from an injury faster is using to get a competitive advantage.

 

I don't know if he's a chronic user of HGH, or if he used it before or prior to that supposed one time that he admitted to, and I'm not even speculating about that.

 

Do you honestly think that it's okay to lie to everyone just because a guy from your church dips you in water and tells you that you're cleansed of all of your sins? Again, his faith is not being questioned here. Andy Pettite is being questioned. His faith is being used to show that, if anything, he's been even more dishonest with us than just the HGH situation.

 

I think I already said it isn't that big of a deal, I don't pass any real personal judgment onto Andy Pettite since I don't know him, and he could be a really great guy. If I ever had a conversation with him though, I'd always have it in the back of my mind that this is someone who cheated, lied, and told on his supposed best friend. Those are some tough things to overcome when you're trying to demonstrate that you have good character.

[a700hitter]

well damn, 48% of American's have admitted to trying marijuana. I guess by definition nearly half of our population are criminals.

 

How am I being a homer? I don't think any player who used HGH prior to 2005 when it was offically banned cheated. Regardless of what team they played for. Stop being a hater.

Pettitte engaged in a criminal act to gain an unfair advantage in his profession. That is cheating. It is not at all like smoking pot. It is more like insider trading. It is indisputable that he is a liar. He completely changed his story depending on the venue and the evidence. Because he lied on numerous occasions anything else he says on the issue has little credibility.

 

I couldn't give a rats ass about his religiosity. I don't count it in his favor or hold it against him. He is a hypocrite nevertheless. The whole act about wanting to be near his family because he was missing precious years with his kids was exposed as complete hypocrisy when he returned to the skanks. His lies and deceit are not limited to PEDs, so he has no integrity.

 

Lastly, he is a despicable rat who turned on his best friend. He was okay with lying to protect himself and his reputation, but the minute he got caught, he flipped on his best friend and mentor. Even then he wasn't truthful. He gave the investigators just enough in an affidavit to get them off his back and put the heat on Clemens. He opted to do an affidavit, because he was too gutless to testify in open session with Clemens present. That was cowardly. Because he is incapable of telling the whole truth, his affidavit was completely watered down, and it did not hold up in Clemen's case. I believe that later he claimed that he could not remember.

 

Let's add to the list of his attributes that he is a rat and a coward. Summing up, he is a lying cheating hypocrite criminal cowardly rat. That is not my opinion. It is all established by facts. A man with all of these bad qualities is a man of low character and untrustworthy. He may not be a murderer, but he is a despicable person.

[Divinity]

Using HGH to return from an injury faster is using to get a competitive advantage.

 

I don't know if he's a chronic user of HGH, or if he used it before or prior to that supposed one time that he admitted to, and I'm not even speculating about that.

 

Do you honestly think that it's okay to lie to everyone just because a guy from your church dips you in water and tells you that you're cleansed of all of your sins? Again, his faith is not being questioned here. Andy Pettite is being questioned. His faith is being used to show that, if anything, he's been even more dishonest with us than just the HGH situation.

 

I think I already said it isn't that big of a deal, I don't pass any real personal judgment onto Andy Pettite since I don't know him, and he could be a really great guy. If I ever had a conversation with him though, I'd always have it in the back of my mind that this is someone who cheated, lied, and told on his supposed best friend. Those are some tough things to overcome when you're trying to demonstrate that you have good character.

 

Is it really a competitive advantage though when he used it during a time when it wasn't banned by MLB, and any injured player could have, and in a lot of cases they did the same thing?

 

He admitted to using it two days in 2002 and one day in 2004 to treat an injury.

 

 

I think watching this youtube video would help you understand it from his point of view, he starts to talks about the HGH situation a minute into the video.

 

Edited July 30, 2013 by Divinity

[Bellhorn04]

This is just my own personal take completely. I do believe in degrees of crime. I think in the PED's scale what Pettitte did was clearly wrong and punishable, but just not in the same category as what Clemens did. Clemens used PED's to win 3 Cy Young awards and then denied it to the world. Maybe Pettitte doesn't look so bad to me because I compare him to Clemens. And I probably like the fact that he ratted on Clemens.

[VA Sox Fan]

This is just my own personal take completely. I do believe in degrees of crime. I think in the PED's scale what Pettitte did was clearly wrong and punishable, but just not in the same category as what Clemens did. Clemens used PED's to win 3 Cy Young awards and then denied it to the world. Maybe Pettitte doesn't look so bad to me because I compare him to Clemens. And I probably like the fact that he ratted on Clemens.

 

I'm with you. He cheated and admitted it. Can't think of one other player that did. No comparison between him and some one like Braun, ARod etc. IMO.

[User Name]

I'm with you. He cheated and admitted it. Can't think of one other player that did. No comparison between him and some one like Braun, ARod etc. IMO.

 

Giambi.

[User Name]

Is it really a competitive advantage though when he used it during a time when it wasn't banned by MLB, and any injured player could have, and in a lot of cases they did the same thing?

 

He admitted to using it two days in 2002 and one day in 2004 to treat an injury.

 

 

I think watching this youtube video would help you understand it from his point of view, he starts to talks about the HGH situation a minute into the video.

 

 

It is a competitive advantage. Why are you even arguing this? It's like saying that jumping in water doesn't make you wet. Stop.

[mvp 78]

It is a competitive advantage. Why are you even arguing this? It's like saying that jumping in water doesn't make you wet. Stop.

 

Coming back early from an injury is definitely advantage.

 

I just can't follow the logic here. He cheated, end of story.

[Bellhorn04]

Coming back early from an injury is definitely advantage.

 

I just can't follow the logic here. He cheated, end of story.

 

Of course he cheated. But I have no idea why that makes it end of story. Do we live in a simple black-and-white world? I don't think so.

[User Name]

In this case, it makes it end of story because there's no way to justify his actions. He may be less of a cheater than Clemens, but he's still a cheater.

[Bellhorn04]

In this case, it makes it end of story because there's no way to justify his actions. He may be less of a cheater than Clemens, but he's still a cheater.

 

Well, yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. He's less of a cheater. I guess it's a subjective thing whether being less of a cheater has any relevance or not.

[User Name]

Well, yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. He's less of a cheater. I guess it's a subjective thing whether being less of a cheater has any relevance or not.

 

The issue here is the line of discussion. Divinity is arguing that because Petitte only used HGH to come back from injury (allegedly) he didn't "cheat". That is borderline retarded. He cheated, he came clean about cheating, and he is a cheater.

[mvp 78]

Jason Giambi is the only player that I can really think of in which they signed a known PED user?

 

Pettitte isn't a horrible human being. The response to the above statement is what makes this "black and white."

[Bellhorn04]

The issue here is the line of discussion. Divinity is arguing that because Petitte only used HGH to come back from injury (allegedly) he didn't "cheat". That is borderline retarded. He cheated, he came clean about cheating, and he is a cheater.

 

Right. I just re-read Divinity's posts, and he refuses to admit that Pettitte cheated.

[a700hitter]

His original admission was a lie. He changed his story when he went to Congress. He suddenly remembered that he had used it more than the 2 times he had admitted. Lying in an admission after you get caught isn't an honorable act.

[a700hitter]

Facts:

1. He used an illegal substance to gain an unfair advantage on the field.

2. He didn't admit it until he was caught and confronted with evidence.

3. His admission was a lie as he changed his admission when forced to testify under oath.

4. He implicated his best friend as part of a deal with law enforcement

5. He made his implicating statements in a affidavit because he did not want to make the statement at the public Congrressional inquiry attended by Clemens

 

My conclusion is that he is not a man of integrity.

[VA Sox Fan]

His original admission was a lie. He changed his story when he went to Congress. He suddenly remembered that he had used it more than the 2 times he had admitted. Lying in an admission after you get caught isn't an honorable act.

 

He "misremembered"

[Divinity]

The issue here is the line of discussion. Divinity is arguing that because Petitte only used HGH to come back from injury (allegedly) he didn't "cheat". That is borderline retarded. He cheated, he came clean about cheating, and he is a cheater.

 

According to dictionary.com to cheat you "violate rules or regulations" Pettitte never violated a single rule in MLB by using a few times prior to when it was banned, and he never used it after it was banned, so actually he didn't cheat.

[User Name]

According to dictionary.com to cheat you "violate rules or regulations" Pettitte never violated a single rule in MLB by using a few times prior to when it was banned, and he never used it after it was banned, so actually he didn't cheat.

 

I'm trying to not get personal here, but are you really this dumb? First off HGH was a banned substance, but its use couldn't be punished because there was no testing method at the time. Second, it was a criminal offense to acquire HGH. So not only is he a cheater, he's a criminal. Wake up.

[Divinity]

I'm trying to not get personal here, but are you really this dumb? First off HGH was a banned substance, but its use couldn't be punished because there was no testing method at the time. Second, it was a criminal offense to acquire HGH. So not only is he a cheater, he's a criminal. Wake up.

 

HGH is undetectable in urine, in-season HGH blood testing actually didn't even start until this season, 8 years after it was banned.

 

Show me your source that says it was banned prior to 2005? Because everywhere I look says it was in fact banned in 2005.

 

"When was hGH banned by baseball?

 

It was banned by Major League Baseball in 2005. Steroids testing and discipline resulting from positive results started in 2004. In 2005, the list of banned substances was broadened, and penalties were made harsher."

 

 

HGH is legal by a prescription from a licensed doctor, Pettitte's only mistake wasn't getting a script for it, something he could have easily done.

[Emmz]

Is it really a competitive advantage though when he used it during a time when it wasn't banned by MLB, and any injured player could have, and in a lot of cases they did the same thing?

 

He admitted to using it two days in 2002 and one day in 2004 to treat an injury.

 

 

I think watching this youtube video would help you understand it from his point of view, he starts to talks about the HGH situation a minute into the video.

 

 

It was illegal, dude. It was illegal then as much as it is now, it just wasn't explicitly banned by the rules until 2005.

 

I don't need to have sympathy for the guy man, I already assume that his motivation to use HGH was fairly clean compared to what other players used steroids for. I think you're the one who really doesn't understand, though. MLB banned it for a reason, because it gives a competitive advantage that "regular steroids" can't. Coming back from an injury faster than humanly possible is about the best advantage that you could ever have, and lying about it makes you a liar.

[a700hitter]

According to dictionary.com to cheat you "violate rules or regulations" Pettitte never violated a single rule in MLB by using a few times prior to when it was banned, and he never used it after it was banned, so actually he didn't cheat.

You can't counter one of the facts that I listed, but yet you come to a different conclusion. Most people, other than homers, when presented with those facts would not think that Pettitte had integrity or was a good guy.

[User Name]

HGH is undetectable in urine, in-season HGH blood testing actually didn't even start until this season, 8 years after it was banned.

 

Show me your source that says it was banned prior to 2005? Because everywhere I look says it was in fact banned in 2005.

 

You want more sources than the fact that it was and is illegal to purchase HGH unless it's for a medically approved purpose? Are you for real?

 

 

 

HGH is legal by a prescription from a licensed doctor, Pettitte's only mistake wasn't getting a script for it, something he could have easily done.

 

So you're advocating he get a prescription for it illegally for a purpose other than the one HGH is legally prescribed for (HGH deficiency, like Daniel Nava has)? No wonder you defend his cheating, you advocate for dishonesty and cheating yourself.

[jacksonianmarch]

Who gives a f***. There, that's done. It appears the commish is ready to use the "Best interest of the game" clause to ban ARod for life. That would be pretty harsh, but pretty much un-appealable as Selig is the only one who can hear an appeal if he suspends someone for that.

[Palodios]

Selig has that power? I think it is time to start writing him letters.

[yankees228]

Exercising that sort of unilateral power would make even some of our recent Presidents jealous. And that's saying something.

[User Name]

And he can. But i doubt he will.

[yankees228]

Well there's hardly any use in speculating at this point. We'll know soon enough.