Daniel Nava Vs Josh Hamilton

[User Name]

Average is nearly worthless. OBP and SLG% (as noted by how good OPS is at determining offensive value) are the most important indicators of offensive performance. Nava can be above average in both, considering that although he won't hit many homers, he can hit his fair share of doubles.

 

But he needs to be used in a role he can excel in, and they need to avoid overexposing him.

[Dojji]

Agreed with UN. Nava's biggest limiting factor is his size, which plays a big role in both stamina and ability to avoid injury. It's going to hurt his ability to get the job done if he's playing every day, like it did last year. Little guys can't all be Dustin Pedroia, and Pedey gets his share of injuries too the way he throws himself around.

 

That said, if he's sorted out whatever was holding him back last year from the right side, a switch hitter with that kind of ability to make contact and get on base can be EXTREMELY useful on the bench.

[seabeachfred]

While I'll admit he isn't the ideal corner outfielder because he doesn't possess tremendous power but he does contribute with a decent average and OBP. Those are probably the two most important statistical categories for an offense player to excel in. I'm content with him in the starting line-up everyday as long as his OBP is over .350, like it has been for the last two years. Power and speed are nice to have but I wouldn't take power and speed over AVG and OBP.

 

The last two seasons Nava has started out fast and then faded, not tragically but faded nonetheless. I think this is a case where his experience has made him more confident and able to read pitches better than in the past. No, he is not a Hamilton. Josh is capable of hitting over 40 homers and driving in 130 runs, not to mention hit for a solid average. Didn't he win the batting title a couple of years ago?

 

It is unfair to Nava to make such a comparison since Josh has a tremendous natural talent advantage over him. If Nava can maintain a consistent pace this season, say hit around 290with about 15 homers and 65-70 RBI's we ought to be fine with that. Of course, that also means other like WMB, Pedroia, Napoli, Papi and Shane must hit up to par themselves.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nava is not even in the same galaxy as Hamilton. He is what he is, a short guy with a nice swing who seems to tire with lots of playing time. He's also a guy who is slow to adjust and can be pitched to. Farrell is using him masterfully. You ride him while he's hot and then stash him once his bat cools

[SoxFanForsyth]

Average is nearly worthless. OBP and SLG% (as noted by how good OPS is at determining offensive value) are the most important indicators of offensive performance. Nava can be above average in both, considering that although he won't hit many homers, he can hit his fair share of doubles.

 

But he needs to be used in a role he can excel in, and they need to avoid overexposing him.

 

OPS is even a very flawed stat because it weighs SLG and OBP the same, when its actually much more difficult to get to 1B than it is to get extra bases rather than just to first base. See: Salty

 

wOBA and wRC+ are much better indicators of offensive value than OPS in my opinion.

[User Name]

OPS is even a very flawed stat because it weighs SLG and OBP the same, when its actually much more difficult to get to 1B than it is to get extra bases rather than just to first base. See: Salty

 

wOBA and wRC+ are much better indicators of offensive value than OPS in my opinion.

 

But unlike wOBA and wRC+, OPS and OPS+ are a lot more simple to understand and interpret for the casual fan. I bet you can't give me a layman's term explanation for either of those stats that i could explain to, say, my litle brother, who can certainly understand OPS and OPS+.

 

Also, in reality, when valuating OPS, because SLG is always, by definition, higher than OBP, the real value of a point in OBP is about 1.2 SLG% points. Mathematically speaking.

[SoxSport]

Well, for starters, Hamilton isn't a switch hitter.

[SoxFanForsyth]

But unlike wOBA and wRC+, OPS and OPS+ are a lot more simple to understand and interpret for the casual fan. I bet you can't give me a layman's term explanation for either of those stats that i could explain to, say, my litle brother, who can certainly understand OPS and OPS+.

 

Also, in reality, when valuating OPS, because SLG is always, by definition, higher than OBP, the real value of a point in OBP is about 1.2 SLG% points. Mathematically speaking.

 

Generally speaking, yes. But there are cases like Salty, where it's almost 2.0 SLG%, and others like a typical Nava or a guy like Iglesias where it's more around 1:1 ratio, but OPS doesn't account for those differently.

 

I 100% agree that wOBA and wRC+ are much more in depth stats, I just have grown to really dislike OPS because of the weight issues.

[mvp 78]

Nava has started off hot every year then fallen back to Earth. Enjoy his production while it lasts...

[Bellhorn04]

So the panicky Halos dropped Hamilton from 4th to 5th in the order for last night's game. He goes 4 for 4. In the bottom of the 9th they're losing 7-6 with a man on first. Mark Trumbo, the new #4 hitter, makes the last out with Hamilton standing in the on-deck circle.

 

Sometimes baseball is so poetic.

[jung]

Oh the humanity!

[Lord Snow]

So the panicky Halos dropped Hamilton from 4th to 5th in the order for last night's game. He goes 4 for 4. In the bottom of the 9th they're losing 7-6 with a man on first. Mark Trumbo, the new #4 hitter, makes the last out with Hamilton standing in the on-deck circle.

 

Sometimes baseball is so poetic.

 

To be fair being dropped from 4 to 5 is kind of a useless move. It's not like it's a major demotion say from 4 to 7, 8, or 9. The 5 hole is still a key slot in the batting order.

 

I don't know why people are jumping all over Josh Hamilton. He has been an Angel for 3 weeks. Slumping? Yes. But it's not like he's hitting .100 with 0 RBI. His production has been okay for a slump.

[Lord Snow]

Average is nearly worthless. OBP and SLG% (as noted by how good OPS is at determining offensive value) are the most important indicators of offensive performance. Nava can be above average in both, considering that although he won't hit many homers, he can hit his fair share of doubles.

 

But he needs to be used in a role he can excel in, and they need to avoid overexposing him.

 

I disagree. OPS is a good indicator of who is better when comparing one elite hitter to another.

 

Slugging, while nice, is only essential for the 3-6 slots in the batting order in my opinion. You can get by without having big time sluggers as long as they are table setters (e.g. 1 & 2 hitters). And average is important, it's become underrated lately but you still need guys who can hit to drive in runs.

[User Name]

That makes zero sense. OPS is good for comparing any hitter to any hitter. And average is mainly a component of OBP, and while you need to hit the ball to drive runners in, if they don't get on base, you can't drive anyone in unless you SLUG a home run.

[dupree]

I cant believe that this is even a discussion topic. Nava is and never will be in the same galaxies as Josh Hamilton.

[BSN07]

I don't have the stats but on Around the Horn yesterday or the day before Woody Paige mentioned something about Hamilton's slash line in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th spot in the lineup and his line batting 5th was much higher the 3 or 4. I don't know what the hell that means but it was an interesting fact.

[lospunchados]

This thread is hillarious. Obviously Hamilton is a better player, that isn't even a question.

 

Though, for everyone who says watch how Nava fades down the stretch how did Hamilton do last year in the second half ?

 

Nava is a better fit and is needed a lot more than hamilton on the redsox. Nava is a great guy to platoon and grind out at bats against pitchers and has a great swing for Fenway.

 

Hamilton will probably put up his usual monster numbers by seasons end, but is he worth the big cash for the last two years of the deal, who knows if his body can hold out.

 

I'll take Nava,Carp,Victorino, Gomes and Napoli as the #4 or 5 bat that Hamilton would have been for this year, and figure out the next few years later.

[jung]

Well I think we all remember that our view of it was that the decision to bring in the players that were brought in by the Sox was in effect a decision to drop kick decisions on more costly FA's down the road in favor of putting together a team built from short term contract players at somewhat higher salaries.

 

While I was one of those that questioned the wisdom of making what appeared to be such a unilateral decision it could not have worked out better for the Sox brass. Clearly the Sox have done enough in April to whet the fan's appetite and will very likely be enough to bolster ticket dales and future TV revenues to the sorts of levels that make guys like LL and JW go all warm and fuzzy. Regardless of what happens from here on out, those numbers will likely make the grade for the business side of the house.

 

The Sox fan's psyche has been much bolstered by the early faltering of the Jays as well. At the rate the Jays are piling up lose column numbers, they will soon be irrelevant as anything more than a late season spoiler.

[Bellhorn04]

Hamilton went 0 for 8 last night with 3 K's as the Angels fell to 9-16. Ouch.

[Orange Juiced]

Hamilton went 0 for 8 last night with 3 K's as the Angels fell to 9-16. Ouch.

 

It's amazing, with the talent they have on that team, that they're 9-16.

[Bellhorn04]

It's amazing, with the talent they have on that team, that they're 9-16.

 

Their pitching stinks and Weaver is on the shelf. And they're not even winning the slugfests.

[MJantomaso]

It's amazing, with the talent they have on that team, that they're 9-16.

 

People said the same about us last year.

[mvp 78]

People said the same about us last year.

 

People said the same thing about the Angels last year too.

[seabeachfred]

People said the same about us last year.

 

And don't forget the beginning of the 2011 season MJ. We were supposed to play the Phillies in the World Series and we all know painfully how that one turned out. Talent is important to any team, let's not kid ourselves, but it takes more than just that to make a group of players into a real team.

[redsoxbeatz]

Hamilton went 0 for 8 last night with 3 K's as the Angels fell to 9-16. Ouch.

 

they also blew the lead twice (maybe thrice?) and then lost in the 19th... that's even worse

[Youk Of The Nation]

Thrice? Really? Even I'm not that pretentious.

[SoxSport]

Agreed with UN. Nava's biggest limiting factor is his size, which plays a big role in both stamina and ability to avoid injury. It's going to hurt his ability to get the job done if he's playing every day, like it did last year. Little guys can't all be Dustin Pedroia, and Pedey gets his share of injuries too the way he throws himself around.

 

That said, if he's sorted out whatever was holding him back last year from the right side, a switch hitter with that kind of ability to make contact and get on base can be EXTREMELY useful on the bench.

 

Nava is about the same size as Yaz.

[User Name]

Nava has 25 pounds on Yaz' weight during his playing days and a hormonal disorder. Not a valid comparison.

[Dojji]

Nava is about the same size as Yaz.

 

And Yaz was small for a corner outfielder, even a generation ago when the average athlete's height was about 2-3 inches shorter.

 

I certainly don't intend to take anything away from Mr. Yastrzemski. He was a heck of a ballplayer and he deserves to have his number up on the wall, but let's not pretend that a guy putting together a hall of fame caliber career despite his size means that size is not an issue at all.

[a700hitter]

Nava is about the same size as Yaz.

Yaz was listed at 6', but he was only 5'11. Nava is about 5'9"