Shoring Up the Rotation

[SoxSport]

I never said that I dislike Ben. Criticizing moves or no-moves of Ben is different than hating the guy like you admittedly hate Papelbon. My opinions of Ben's performance are not colored by any personal like or dislike. Your reasoning may be consistent but it is flawed.

 

I guess the warning sign about Ben is his passive demeanor. He's a guy who spent a lot of time in the middle of organizations until those above him were promoted or changed jobs.

Henry lost several guys above him in his organization, and chose not to replace them. He let Ben float to the top. Hazen strikes me as the stronger personality, and he could well be running the show behind the scenes.

 

The other thing is, from what I've read about him, Henry is also a quiet, passive type of guy.

The anti-Steinbrenner. Not surprising that Henry let the organization get away from him.

[Bellhorn04]

I guess the warning sign about Ben is his passive demeanor. He's a guy who spent a lot of time in the middle of organizations until those above him were promoted or changed jobs.

Henry lost several guys above him in his organization, and chose not to replace them. He let Ben float to the top. Hazen strikes me as the stronger personality, and he could well be running the show behind the scenes.

 

Or maybe Ben's 'passive demeanor' is just a front, and he's an absolute ass-kicker behind the scenes. Your guess is as good as mine. All that matters is what's on the field.

[Standing Room]

Or maybe Ben's 'passive demeanor' is just a front, and he's an absolute ass-kicker behind the scenes. Your guess is as good as mine. All that matters is what's on the field.

 

Yup. Unless any of us know Cherington personally, it's pointless to try to speculate on how his personality might affect what happens behind the scenes. I judge GM's on the product they put on the field, not whether I like their personality.

[Standing Room]

From what I've read so far, the guy is supposed to be almost MLB ready. Maybe he's an option to bolster the rotation. At least he won't cost prospects and 25M a year.

 

I haven't been able to find much about him, but from what I understand he won't count against the International Free Agent spending pool money for any teams. The international free agent signing period opens in less than three weeks, perhaps it's time to make a thread. We've been connected to a few guys.

[User Name]

Or maybe Ben's 'passive demeanor' is just a front, and he's an absolute ass-kicker behind the scenes. Your guess is as good as mine. All that matters is what's on the field.

 

And what's on the field so far is a first-place team with a top five farm system. But hey, armchair GM's know everything about Ben without actually knowing him.

[mvp 78]

And what's on the field so far is a first-place team with a top five farm system. But hey, armchair GM's know everything about Ben without actually knowing him.

 

Dey shoulda signed Hamilton, Haren and made da Blue Jays trade.

 

Wake up Ben!

[a700hitter]

More bitchin and moaning about nothing.

[mvp 78]

More bitchin and moaning about nothing.

 

Stop telling me what I can and can't talk about Mr Censorship!

[a700hitter]

Stop telling me what I can and can't talk about Mr Censorship!

It's not all about you. Get over yourself.

 

But since you brought it up, bitching about the players, managers and umps can be an annoying bore. Complaining incessantly and repeatedly about other posters is just something that catty bitches do. It's like listening to a conversation with teenage girls. just sayin.

[seabeachfred]

I don't see you writing ten posts whining about Bill Mueller every time WMB makes an out. That's why. You just answered your own question by the way. We've already presented ad nauseum all the reasons why some think Papelbon should have been retained or let go. It's beating a dead horse on a near-daily basis. It's also the same couple of posters literally stirring the pot every time.

 

You're right on this one User, square on. However, as Dupree said in the post following yours, we most likely are going to need a dependable closer if the one we have doesn't start doing the job on a more consistent basis. With our starting rotation seemingly starting to spring leaks (Doubrant on Saturday, Lackey on Monday and Lester yesterday), a team is hard pressed to slug its way to a title, so when we get a lead in the late innings we have to keep it. OTOH, I wonder if Cherington is on the prowl to see if any starting pitchers may be put up for sale in a month and a half. If so, I hope he is ahead of the game there. All this would be mute if the three aforementioned pitchers had been doing the job on a consistent basis. We can all agree I think, that you win with good starting pitching.

[User Name]

You're right on this one User, square on. However, as Dupree said in the post following yours, we most likely are going to need a dependable closer if the one we have doesn't start doing the job on a more consistent basis. With our starting rotation seemingly starting to spring leaks (Doubrant on Saturday, Lackey on Monday and Lester yesterday), a team is hard pressed to slug its way to a title, so when we get a lead in the late innings we have to keep it. OTOH, I wonder if Cherington is on the prowl to see if any starting pitchers may be put up for sale in a month and a half. If so, I hope he is ahead of the game there. All this would be mute if the three aforementioned pitchers had been doing the job on a consistent basis. We can all agree I think, that you win with good starting pitching.

 

Bailey's line going into last night was 18.1 IP, 6 BB, 27 K, 1.47 ERA, 2-0, 1 Blsv

 

Doesn't get much better than that, line still looks good after last night also

[mvp 78]

It's not all about you. Get over yourself.

 

But since you brought it up, bitching about the players, managers and umps can be an annoying bore. Complaining incessantly and repeatedly about other posters is just something that catty bitches do. It's like listening to a conversation with teenage girls. just sayin.

 

Nice personal attack there.

 

Funny that you complain about other posters as much as anyone else on here. Maybe you'll take your own advice. :thumbsup:

[a700hitter]

Nice personal attack there.

 

Funny that you complain about other posters as much as anyone else on here. Maybe you'll take your own advice. :thumbsup:

I didn't attack anyone personally. As I said, it's not always about you.

[User Name]

^Lol.

[rjortiz]

I had my doubts about this team. I pegged them for a 3rd place finish. Still have some concerns about the rotation, but we have a strong offense and bullpen. Cherrington has done a good job cleaning up the mess of 2012 without giving up any long term pieces. The future looks pretty bright for the Red Sox. I think a championship window is starting to open up. Unthinkable 10 months ago.

[seabeachfred]

I had my doubts about this team. I pegged them for a 3rd place finish. Still have some concerns about the rotation, but we have a strong offense and bullpen. Cherrington has done a good job cleaning up the mess of 2012 without giving up any long term pieces. The future looks pretty bright for the Red Sox. I think a championship window is starting to open up. Unthinkable 10 months ago.

 

RJ, glad you are upbeat about the Red Sox but I still have my doubts about this team. I got burned in 2011 and seared last season and am still wiping the embers off if you know what I mean. I would guess there are still a lot of other doubting thomases. Happy to see the Sox doing well but I still have some doubts about the rotation, about a couple of our relievers and our ability to keep hitting consistently. I'm waiting until August before I make any commitments about this team even though before the season I said they would be better than they were last year. How much better? I'll wait until August. Of course, if they are still doing well by then I'll probably be accused by a couple of people of climbing on the bandwagon.:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Behindenemylines]

RJ, glad you are upbeat about the Red Sox but I still have my doubts about this team. I got burned in 2011 and seared last season and am still wiping the embers off if you know what I mean. I would guess there are still a lot of other doubting thomases. Happy to see the Sox doing well but I still have some doubts about the rotation, about a couple of our relievers and our ability to keep hitting consistently. I'm waiting until August before I make any commitments about this team even though before the season I said they would be better than they were last year. How much better? I'll wait until August. Of course, if they are still doing well by then I'll probably be accused by a couple of people of climbing on the bandwagon.:D:D:D:D:D:D

 

Remember it was the September collapse in 2011 that left a bad taste in Sox fans mouths. This team has a better feel about it though. I think you have a better mix of guys that all have winning backgrounds so the chemistry is much better then in 2011. This team has been fun to watch. I think if they come up short and don't make the post season it will be because of some critical injury or two.

[SoxSport]

Their rotation needs a transfusion. Either a trade for a Lee, or the emergence of one of their prospects.

They are in the hunt, and can't afford to sit on those guys in Pawtucket at their leisure. They need to see what they can do. Or make a deal for a pitcher--before anybody else does.

[Standing Room]

Their rotation needs a transfusion. Either a trade for a Lee, or the emergence of one of their prospects.

They are in the hunt, and can't afford to sit on those guys in Pawtucket at their leisure. They need to see what they can do. Or make a deal for a pitcher--before anybody else does.

 

Who do we boot from the rotation to make room for them?

[Orange Juiced]

Who are the likely SP options on the trade market?

 

- Cliff Lee: Absolute stud. Incredibly expensive salary. Given the huge contract, might not cost as much in terms of prospects. Or you trade more prospects and Philly eats some salary.

 

- Matt Garza: Been injured and not effective this year. But has proven he can pitch in the AL East and is a solid pitcher.

 

- Ian Kennedy: Not having a good year, and Arizona has some excellent pitching prospects that are nearly MLB-ready. Arbitration eligible in 2014 and 2015. Potential free agent in 2016. Would probably take a lot to get him, but he'd be a really nice piece to add. And Arizona has some holes.

 

- Tim Hudson: In the last year of his contract, not having a great year, but has a superb track record. Not sure Atlanta would want to move him as they make a playoff run, but I don't think they'll re-sign him after this year so they may figure they should get something for him while they can. Would add a solid veteran presence for this year (and maybe next if you want him for another season).

 

- Bronson Arroyo: Makes a lot of money (over $16 mil), and is a FA after this season. But he's been here before, knows the drill in Boston. Last two seasons he's been pretty effective. 36 years of age, if you can believe that.

 

- Jonathon Niese: Decent pitcher, not great. Could be useful. Mets have a TON of holes, so there's no doubt the Sox would have a match in terms of prospects.

 

- Tim Lincecum: Was talked about last year. Has really declined...not sure what the issue is with him. Would be a rental for the rest of this year as he's a FA in 2014. But obviously when he's right, he's tremendous. Hasn't been right in a couple of years though. Probably wouldn't cost that much though, given his contract, his current level of effectiveness, and that he'd be a rental for the year. Might be worth a flier for the stretch run.

 

There may be more guys available, and it's possible that none of the guys I listed here are, in fact, available. I don't know what GMs around the league are looking to do. But these are some guys that come to mind as potential targets.

 

What are your thoughts on any/all of these possibilities?

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not convinced that the Phillies will even make Lee available.

[User Name]

I'm not convinced that the Phillies will even make Lee available.

 

I don't get why this is so difficult to come to terms with.

[Rdsxmbnt]

If Garza proves he's healthy and the results get better is Doubront for Garza a fair trade? Who says no?

[kapsis21]

Who do we boot from the rotation to make room for them?

 

Doubront has mostly had s***** starts except against the Yankees for some reason. otherwise he is generally at 100 pitches in the 5th inning and can barely get out of the 5th. he would be the guy to get out of the rotation.

[Standing Room]

Doubront has mostly had s***** starts except against the Yankees for some reason. otherwise he is generally at 100 pitches in the 5th inning and can barely get out of the 5th. he would be the guy to get out of the rotation.

 

Doubront has a 4.45 ERA, 3.87 FIP and 3.70 xFIP as a starter this year, while averaging 5.2 innings a start.

[kapsis21]

Doubront has a 4.45 ERA, 3.87 FIP and 3.70 xFIP as a starter this year, while averaging 5.2 innings a start.

 

he has a 4.45 ERA and he has 2-3 bad games and a good game somewhere in between except when he pitches the Yankees. for a #5 starter he is alright but we generally have 4+ innings by the bullpen whenever he pitches. and the 5.2 innings per start is last years stat not this years.. atleast from this link that I have

http://www.overthemonster.com/2013/4/23/4256418/felix-doubront-boston-red-sox-rotation-starting-pitching

[SoxFanForsyth]

Doubront has a 4.45 ERA, 3.87 FIP and 3.70 xFIP as a starter this year, while averaging 5.2 innings a start.

 

This isn't an argument in favor of keeping him. A guy who can't even average a QS because of innings is not ok.

[seabeachfred]

Who do we boot from the rotation to make room for them?

 

Doubrant!!!!!! He can't get past the fifth inning, walks too many batters and when he blows he blows sky high/ He hasn't done much that could be improved by someone we could get in a trade or a promotion from Pawtucket. Having said that, I hope those people who are still pining for Lee just stop it. He isn't going anywhere.

[Palodios]

Still thinking about Shawn Marcum for the rotation. He went 8 innings, with 1 ER last time out. Keep an eye on tonight's start.

 

He isn't under his team's control, won't get a qualifying offer, has had serious injury problems.... but also has seen seasons of 3-ish ERAs in the AL East, and appears to be finally healthy for NYM. Seems like a very good buy-low candidate.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Still thinking about Shawn Marcum for the rotation. He went 8 innings, with 1 ER last time out. Keep an eye on tonight's start.

 

He isn't under his team's control, won't get a qualifying offer, has had serious injury problems.... but also has seen seasons of 3-ish ERAs in the AL East, and appears to be finally healthy for NYM. Seems like a very good buy-low candidate.

 

I'll never understand your infatuation with Marcum.

 

Allen Webster is dominating tonight in Pawtucket. 4 IP, 4 K, 1 BB, 0 H. Had 8 swing and misses in his first nine hitters.

 

Would be a huge boost if he can put it together and give the Sox a very good internal option.