2013 Spring Training

[a700hitter]

Nava's minor league numbers from his career:

2008-- .424

2009-- .458

2010-- .372

2011-- .372

2012-- .425

 

I'm not pulling this out of thin air. The guy has no power, no speed, but he gets on base.

Facing major league pitching separates the men from the midgets.

[User Name]

Minor league numbers are irrelevant to major league production analysis.

 

Again, very good OBP. "Monster" is pure hyperbole, especially for a platoon player.

[Palodios]

The pattern was the same in 2010. He started red hot and after once through the league his performance fell off a cliff.

 

That's inaccurate. He had a bad August, but he continued to perform from September on.

[jung]

Nava has been a very patient hitter which has really helped him. Later in the year we are discussing, pitchers did a better job of getting the ball past his bat coaxing more swing and miss out of him, getting him in more holes in the count. Could have been injury. Might have slowed up his bat speed enough. That to me was the biggest dif in Nava at the plate from start to finish that year.

 

At the end of the day he is a bench/platoon player. I don't think he could be an every day player anywhere in ML baseball for more than a week or two.

[Palodios]

Minor league numbers are irrelevant to major league production analysis.

 

Again, very good OBP. "Monster" is pure hyperbole, especially for a platoon player.

 

 

You're not a fan of my terminology. Replace "Monster OBP" with "Top 20 OBP against righties". Happy?

 

 

Facing major league pitching separates the men from the midgets.

 

Every opportunity he's been given, he's shown that he can get on base against major league hitters. He's done it in spring training as well, even though he hasn't hit that well.

[jung]

A sure sign that the hitters have truly caught up as we enter the reg season......this game today is meandering along at the usual, regular season, 4 hour pace.

[jung]

Dozier is an absolute adventure at 2nd base for the Twins. He is slated to be their regular season 2nd baseman. That decision may well haunt the Twins all season as he appears lost out there.

 

I would think the Sox will move JBJ to LF from CF today. I would get him as many looks from LF at balls coming off the bat as possible before he has to be in a real game in LF.

[a700hitter]

That's inaccurate. He had a bad August, but he continued to perform from September on.

He slugged at .295 with a .659 OPS. Pretty bad numbers.

[Palodios]

He slugged at .295 with a .659 OPS. Pretty bad numbers.

 

This argument was never about slugging.

[Bellhorn04]

He slugged at .295 with a .659 OPS. Pretty bad numbers.

 

His last 10 starts of the season - 278/366/528. Seemed to be coming back.

[a700hitter]

The guy is just not good. He is a bush leaguer with no major league tools. If you like him, fine, but you are deluding yourselves about his abilities and usefulness at the MLB level, iMO. When he played for us in 2010, I predicted that if we ever saw him at Fenway again, it would be a sign that the team was in a lot of trouble. 2012 spoke volumes about trouble. Having Nava come north as 1 of 25 to start the season indicates to me that this isn't a very strong squad, but that is just my opinion. It's like walking into a restaurant and seeing paper napkins. You know you are not in a 4 star place. Nava is paper napkins and plastic salt and pepper shakers.

[jung]

It seems to me that Nava's greatest assets are his versatility, now enhanced by an ability to pick up the 1st baseman's mitt and his consistency. Regardless of whether you choose to think his injury caused him to be an easier out or that pitchers caught up to him, it seems to me that he will give you the same things any times he comes in for these two week to month long stints. What he has is not based on athletic ability or talent, things that can put on some rust if left to sit too long. He has learned how to learn (a invaluable asset) and has learned enough to be a decent ballplayer.... That is pretty amazing when you think about the incredible amount of talent exhibited by your standard ML ballplayer.

[SoxSport]

He has a nice story, and it's easy to root for him, but not the type of player that good teams carry on their roster. He is a glorified bush leaguer. He is very very limited in his abilities. He's small with little power, runs like a wounded duck, and has a weak arm. He's got a lot of heart, but otherwise, he's a zero.

 

I don't know how they get off playing him at 1B. I don't recall him playing there in Pawtucket. I view him strictly as an outfielder, and outfielders have a tough time shifting to the infield. More acclimated to flies than grounders. The shift from 3B to 1B is much easier.

Carp has some experience at 1B, and may be more adept there than the OF. The trend is to have bench guys who can play more than 1 position. Ciricao has value because he can play SS, 3B and 2B.

 

The thing about Nava is he's one of the best hitters in Pawtucket when he's there. He has a nice swing LHd and can hit with power--at least at the AAA level.

[reYoukilis]

Nava had the second highest OBP behind Ortiz and thats pretty impressive because I can understand pitchers walking Ortiz much more than Nava. If he really wanted to augment that stat though, he should steal more. I realize that he's probably not fast but he can use that as an element of surprise if he uses it sparingly enough but not as sparingly as usual.

[seabeachfred]

Do you know what momentum is going to carry over? The fact that Buchholz has allowed exactly two runs in his last 25 spring training innings. The fact that Lester has a 15 inning scoreless streak going on.

 

Runs scored in the last ten games -- 3, 6, 1, 12, 7, 3, 0, 6, 0, 7, 3, 5. There's plenty of offense in there. Fred, we disagree on a lot of things, and I try to stay respectful, but thinking poorly of the Red Sox team because guys like Fieri, Duarte, Celestino are losers? That's silly. Who cares how the AA team does? The major league team has done fairly well.

 

Well Palodios, we will see what transpires the first dozen games when the regular season gets underway. If it falls in as it has previous four seasons you might get it under your hat that these miserable ST finishes is more than just a trend. We've had four slow starts in a row the past four seasons and to me that tells me something. It matters not when Fieri, Duarte and Celestino have to do with it because we already know they are losers. It is how it impacts the players who have to go out and play the games with a wad of losses already up their noses. It can have a cumulative effect and personally I think it has had a lot to do with our previously four miserable starts.

 

If it turns out differently this season that idea will go by the boards. If not, I think everyone should take stock of it. It is not helpful to end ST games the way we have and anyone who says that the last week or so of these games are meaningless need a helluva lot more bran in their diets.........present company excepted.

[seabeachfred]

Palodios, you need to understand that the one disease modern medicine will never be able to cure is stupidity.

 

And you are total proof positive of that!!!!!! I don't think you've shown an original idea of your own in months. If the front office says it's so, it's so. If they it is not so, it is not. What the hell user, how about once in awhile try giving a critical judgment on something without running around robin hood's barn and giving the front office a parachute.

 

Here's a question for you mastermind......What do you think accounts for the four miserable starts we've had the past four seasons if you insist that it had nothing to do with four miserable finishes in ST? You know what? You can't......can't unless you check what the front office thinks before you fall in line like the front office lackey you are. I should just put you on ignore like 700 has. Maybe you should be a lawyer because you have become pretty much of mouth piece, or better yet, get a job with the Red Sox as a front office gofer.

[seabeachfred]

Fred's right about one thing, we have had some very s***** starts the last few years. 4-9 in 2010, 2-10 in 2011, 4-10 last year.

 

Bell, you know what it was in 2009? It wasn't much better, was it? I mean, look how we ended it up the past three years. Whatever the reason, slow starts have crippled us badly, so badly that even hot streaks as we enjoyed later in those seasons were not nearly enough to pull us through. Other teams do the same work we do and yet some of them get off to much better starts than we do.

 

Well, I will be watching us the first three of four series this time out. We'll see if we can finally start playing good baseball from the get-go. We sure haven't the past four seasons.

[reYoukilis]

Bell, you know what it was in 2009? It wasn't much better, was it? I mean, look how we ended it up the past three years. Whatever the reason, slow starts have crippled us badly, so badly that even hot streaks as we enjoyed later in those seasons were not nearly enough to pull us through. Other teams do the same work we do and yet some of them get off to much better starts than we do.

 

Well, I will be watching us the first three of four series this time out. We'll see if we can finally start playing good baseball from the get-go. We sure haven't the past four seasons.

 

One of those seasons had the September collapse. I dont think that had anything to do with ST or the start of the regular season for that matter. Im not so sure it had anything to do with fried chicken either.

[mvp 78]

If it falls in as it has previous four seasons you might get it under your hat that these miserable ST finishes is more than just a trend.

 

It's not a trend. It's complete fiction.

[seabeachfred]

His OBP was .284 in the second half of the season. Hardly, a monster OBP. The pitchers figured him out.

 

He has had two stints with the Red Sox Ted and each has gotten off to a good start only to poop out within a month. After two shots maybe the pitchers won't need time to figure him out. It would be swell if he had some speed to go with OBP against righties but he has none of that. He has very little power and is only an average outfielder. But I would take him over Gomez in a heartbeat. Mauro showed this ST just how crappy he is, both at bat and in the field and am surprised some of the Gomez supporters who violently disagreed with me on him haven't said boo about the guy since. Those two know who I mean.

[a700hitter]

He has had two stints with the Red Sox Ted and each has gotten off to a good start only to poop out within a month. After two shots maybe the pitchers won't need time to figure him out. It would be swell if he had some speed to go with OBP against righties but he has none of that. He has very little power and is only an average outfielder. But I would take him over Gomez in a heartbeat. Mauro showed this ST just how crappy he is, both at bat and in the field and am surprised some of the Gomez supporters who violently disagreed with me on him haven't said boo about the guy since. Those two know who I mean.

 

Nava's best tool is his small strike zone.

[seabeachfred]

It's not a trend. It's complete fiction.

 

The last three starts were fiction? Better start taking some more bran in your meals because those 4-10, 2-10 and 4-9 records the past three seasons were not fiction. OK, Brooklyn and California boy, what you think accounts for our miserable starts the past few years? You have a better reason, I'm all ears. Chances are, like your pal user, you have no better reason. You haven't any reason at all. But I'm listening if you do.

[Palodios]

It can have a cumulative effect and personally I think it has had a lot to do with our previously four miserable starts.

 

 

The reason why I argue with this is that you're referring to intangibles. Things like momentum, team chemistry, work ethic etc are all in that pile. If you're going to argue that the intangibles of constructing a group of guys with great personalities will not add a significant amount of wins to this team, arguing that the intangibles of losing some meaningless ST games while single A no-namers are on the mound shouldn't add a significant amount of losses either.

[User Name]

HOW DARE YOU USE LOGIC!

[mvp 78]

The last three starts were fiction? Better start taking some more bran in your meals because those 4-10, 2-10 and 4-9 records the past three seasons were not fiction. OK, Brooklyn and California boy, what you think accounts for our miserable starts the past few years? You have a better reason, I'm all ears. Chances are, like your pal user, you have no better reason. You haven't any reason at all. But I'm listening if you do.

 

No, you have completely made up this trend of the Sox ending their ST's on losing streaks. Again, your reading comprehension is just pathetic.

 

They've had slow starts because their pitching hasn't been good enough. Typically, bats don't awaken until May or so. Since the Sox relied heavily on their bats, the cold weather really caused them to struggle as their pitching wasn't good enough to win low scoring games.

 

It has nothing to do with ST, or your fictional poor ST performances.

[iortiz]

Wonder if our rotation keeps like in ST or is just a fiction.

[mvp 78]

And you may as well add Virginia boy to that list as I lived there for 2 years. Furthermore, I've lived in MA for almost 30 years.

 

Please see a dr, Fred. I think you may have heat stroke.

[User Name]

Yup. Ya can't cure stupid.....

[seabeachfred]

The reason why I argue with this is that you're referring to intangibles. Things like momentum, team chemistry, work ethic etc are all in that pile. If you're going to argue that the intangibles of constructing a group of guys with great personalities will not add a significant amount of wins to this team, arguing that the intangibles of losing some meaningless ST games while single A no-namers are on the mound shouldn't add a significant amount of losses either.

 

Well Palodios, let's just see how this plays out starting Monday. Doubrant kept the solid pitching going today with a solid six inning effort to add to the solid pitching we've had this Spring. That is very good news, but as us using miserable pitchers in the games and getting beat in some, I wonder what meaning to give our pitchers who haven't pitched to solid Major League lineups this Spring either. Still, I would rather have it this way than not.

 

Let me put it this way....I think this season we need to get off to a much better start if for no other reason that too few people and pundits give us much of a chance to do anything. A good start can build confidence as well as momentum and arguing about what happened previously is an exercise in futility since it's the p ast and nothing can be done to change that. I like what Farrell has done this year and it gives me some confidence that we may surprise a lot of people this year.

[seabeachfred]

No, you have completely made up this trend of the Sox ending their ST's on losing streaks. Again, your reading comprehension is just pathetic.

 

They've had slow starts because their pitching hasn't been good enough. Typically, bats don't awaken until May or so. Since the Sox relied heavily on their bats, the cold weather really caused them to struggle as their pitching wasn't good enough to win low scoring games.

 

It has nothing to do with ST, or your fictional poor ST performances.

 

Well at least you came up with an opinion even if I think you're full of crap. Their pitching was supposed to be good enough in 2010 when the theme was "run prevention". Remember that Brooklyn boy? In 2011 pundits and baseball magazines were saying the Red Sox rotation was one of the best in baseball while Lester was predicted my many to win the Cy Young Award that year. So your reasons go down the s*** crapper two out of three times. So it is you who have also made up some cock and bull story that checks out accurately only for last season. Our pitching was supposed to be very solid in both 2010 and 2011 otherwise they wouldn't have referred to one season as "run prevention" and the other as the "greatest team in all baseball". You can't be that with bad pitching, can you Brooklyn boy?