Sources say Napoli signs with Sox.

[Dojji]

Haha! At least SoxFanForsyth gave us some statistical evidence that indicates Shaw is not too bad. What do you have to support you contention?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/overbly01.shtml

 

Shaw is pretty much this guy. If that's good enough for you, fine. Expecting more than that from Shaw isn't likely to take place.

 

A lot of fans wouldn't have a problem with Overbay in his prime as our regular first baseman, but considering all the carping I heard about Youk in 06-07, at least a few disagree.

[a700hitter]

I respect your opinion, but Mientkiewicz can not be declared significantly better defensively than Kotchman. Absolutely not. Personally, I'd take Kotchman defensively over Mientkiewicz. I'd also take others significantly over the guy including George Scott and Keith Hernandez.

I agree that Boomer and Keith were spectacular with the glove, but I think you underestimate Minky's glove work. I don't know if you are going by your recollection or by stats. My recollection is that Minky was a special fielder.

[SCM33]

I disagree. I remember Offerman being signed as a guy who could essentially rotate around multiple positions with Stanley and Frye being the 1B and 2B regulars. In fact, Offerman barely had any 1B experience at that point. I do know they weren't going to play Stanley full time at 1B and Offerman's "ability" to play 1st factored into his signing, which was absolutely atrocious by the way.

 

They didn't want Offerman playing second base. I remember the transaction like it was yesterday.

 

In fact, there was uproar, because Duquette said he was signed to play 1B.....and he was not expected to replace Mo Vaughn's power, but to replace his OBP and provide speed to a slow lineup.

 

Jeff Frye was a damn good player. The hole was at 1B. Jeff Frye was the everyday 2B if he was healthy. He was never able to recover from the knee injury that cost him the 1998 season.

[a700hitter]

How about Kendrys Morales of the Angels? With Pujols on the roster there's no room for him at first base. He's had such a rough last couple ears that I can't imagine the price would be huge.

He got traded this off season to the Mariners for Vargas.

[SCM33]

I agree that Boomer and Keith were spectacular with the glove, but I think you underestimate Minky's glove work. I don't know if you are going by your recollection or by stats. My recollection is that Minky was a special fielder.

 

Minky was good, but its first base. That uncoordinated, goofy, ironglove, butcher Kevin Millar was able to figure it out.

 

We aren't talking about SS or 2B or CF.....we are talking about 1B.

 

Is there really a huge difference? I always thought the move was overrated. The real moves were Cabrera and Dave Roberts.

[Spitball]

I agree that Boomer and Keith were spectacular with the glove, but I think you underestimate Minky's glove work. I don't know if you are going by your recollection or by stats. My recollection is that Minky was a special fielder.

 

Kotchman holds the record for consecutive chances with 2,379 consecutive chances without an error as a first baseman. His .998 career fielding percentage is best all-time. He's also been among the league leaders in his career in total zone runs as a first baseman.

 

Mientkiewicz was good, but he was not Kotchman.

[a700hitter]

Kotchman holds the record for consecutive chances with 2,379 consecutive chances without an error as a first baseman. His .998 career fielding percentage is best all-time. He's also been among the league leaders in his career in total zone runs as a first baseman.

 

Mientkiewicz was good, but he was not Kotchman.

I disagree. Youkilis set records for error-less games, but I would not put him in a class with Minky, or Boomer, or Keith, or Mattingly. It's not just stats. Those other guys were spectacular and acrobatic for lack of a better term. You are free to disagree.

[a700hitter]

Minky was good, but its first base. That uncoordinated, goofy, ironglove, butcher Kevin Millar was able to figure it out.

 

We aren't talking about SS or 2B or CF.....we are talking about 1B.

 

Is there really a huge difference? I always thought the move was overrated. The real moves were Cabrera and Dave Roberts.

Yes, it was a minor move compared to the others, but Minky was a very athletic first baseman.

[rjortiz]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/o/overbly01.shtml

 

Shaw is pretty much this guy. If that's good enough for you, fine. Expecting more than that from Shaw isn't likely to take place.

 

A lot of fans wouldn't have a problem with Overbay in his prime as our regular first baseman, but considering all the carping I heard about Youk in 06-07, at least a few disagree.

 

This is based on a statistical comparison, and not any real scouting evidence?

[rjortiz]

How about Kendrys Morales of the Angels? With Pujols on the roster there's no room for him at first base. He's had such a rough last couple ears that I can't imagine the price would be huge.

 

He got traded to the Mariners.

[Dojji]

This is based on a statistical comparison, and not any real scouting evidence?

 

The scouting evidence is what made me think of Overbay. A quick review of comparable numbers only strenthened the comp. The only real difference i see is that Overbay throws left.

 

Quite seriously, though, getting Overbay out of Shaw would be a pretty good outcome, considering the most likely outcome for any prospect is getting nothing at all. In his prime, Overbay was quite a competent first baseman with a lot of gap to gap power. Bigtime double hitters, good for 15-20 HR's in a given year. That doesn't sound like Travis Shaw's upside to you?

[SoxSport]

I wouldn't overemphasize defense at 1B. The defensive positions are up the middle. The offensive positions are the corners. You have to have a hitter at 1B because your SS and catcher are usually subpar hitters. A hitter like Pedroia is well above average at 2B.Ellsbury in CF is an above average hitter when he is healthy. Hitting is important at the corners--infield and outfield.

[Dojji]

The only two players who touch the ball more than the first baseman are the pitcher and the catcher. If you have a player at that position who strougles with routine plays, you'll know.

 

Granted, the up the middle positions require more athleticism. Thus the defensive spectrum -- a good 1B would struggle at any other position on the field, while other athletic players from other positions can learn first base. However, that can be overstated pretty quickly. A solid experienced glove at first base can save your life just as much as any other position on the field. It may require less athleticism, but the skill requirements are not less, and it's not a "dump position" if you want to win ballgames.

 

Defense at first matters. Maybe not as much as offense, but it does matter. We got spoiled with Youk and Gonzo there, two GG defenders. A bad defensive 1B will awaken us to how important it is to have a reliable glove at the position.

[Lucienbel]

The only two players who touch the ball more than the first baseman are the pitcher and the catcher. If you have a player at that position who strougles with routine plays, you'll know.

 

Granted, the up the middle positions require more athleticism. Thus the defensive spectrum -- a good 1B would struggle at any other position on the field, while other athletic players from other positions can learn first base. However, that can be overstated pretty quickly. A solid experienced glove at first base can save your life just as much as any other position on the field. It may require less athleticism, but the skill requirements are not less, and it's not a "dump position" if you want to win ballgames.

 

Defense at first matters. Maybe not as much as offense, but it does matter. We got spoiled with Youk and Gonzo there, two GG defenders. A bad defensive 1B will awaken us to how important it is to have a reliable glove at the position.

 

The fact that the first basemen does have the ball that often indeed makes defense at first base important. As far as fielding goes, the first basemen is involved in the most outs made on the field besides the pitcher (if we look at it like that). That's a large chance for those outs to not get made. With that said, for the most part, when it comes to taking throws from Pedroia and Drew I'm not incredibly concerned as Pedroia is more than adequate and from what I've seen with Drew he's fine too. I know people are a little down on Middlebrooks in this area but I think he'll shape up well too, though it may take some time.

 

None the less, if we allow the middle infield and third basemen the faith they don't have to make a throw perfect every time and can still get the outs things seem to go a lot smoother. While first base may not require the greatest range on the field and may not look the best, you know you're always going to be taking throws from your infielders. The more of those you can pick and stretch out the better.

[a700hitter]

No one mentions Carlos Lee, but he is an available first baseman with right handed power.

[Lucienbel]

No one mentions Carlos Lee, but he is an available first baseman with right handed power.

 

Ah, didn't know he was around. LaRoche would still be my preference at this point, but if things go south and you could get him on a one year he wouldn't be a bad choice.

[Spitball]

The scouting evidence is what made me think of Overbay. A quick review of comparable numbers only strenthened the comp. The only real difference i see is that Overbay throws left.

 

Quite seriously, though, getting Overbay out of Shaw would be a pretty good outcome, considering the most likely outcome for any prospect is getting nothing at all. In his prime, Overbay was quite a competent first baseman with a lot of gap to gap power. Bigtime double hitters, good for 15-20 HR's in a given year. That doesn't sound like Travis Shaw's upside to you?

 

Fred mentioned the Sox have one prospect way down the list of top 60 named Travis. You supplied the Shaw part. I don't think anyone suggested that Shaw was a viable choice for the Red Sox vacant or future first base job.

[SoxSport]

Jen Royle is twittering away today. Says Sox won't give up draft pick for LaRoche. Still thinks Napoli will sign for 2 years. I'm thinking his agent won't be pleased about a lower commission.

[seabeachfred]

As SeanJohn said, Kotchman was probably better suited to the back up role, and he is a great defensive first baseman as his .998 fielding average tells us. Despite LaRoche's .995 fielding average, he is not Kotchman defensively.

 

I will agree it was not a good trade for the Sox, but the rotation of Varitek, Martinez, Lowell, Youkilis, and Kotchman sharing three positions was pretty affective.

 

Sorry my friend but that rotation was anything but effective. You had a rapidly deteriorating Varitek being inserted into the lineup when it was evident that his time was up and that he could no longer hit after the first of June. Lowell, a terrific player and class act, was a cripple by then and all attempts to give him a place to land with a trade was fruitless because Boy Blunder was asking the moon for the guy. Youkilis wss begining to have physical problems by that time and Kotchman has always been a reglular up to that time and chaffed at being relegated to the bench. Francona, IMO, by this time was becoming more befuddled, was playing with a ring around the rosie batting order. The team deteriorated.

[seabeachfred]

As SeanJohn said, Kotchman was probably better suited to the back up role, and he is a great defensive first baseman as his .998 fielding average tells us. Despite LaRoche's .995 fielding average, he is not Kotchman defensively.

 

I will agree it was not a good trade for the Sox, but the rotation of Varitek, Martinez, Lowell, Youkilis, and Kotchman sharing three positions was pretty affective.

 

Sorry my friend but that rotation was anything but effective. You had a rapidly deteriorating Varitek being inserted into the lineup when it was evident that his time was up and that he could no longer hit after the first of June. Lowell, a terrific player and class act, was a cripple by then and all attempts to give him a place to land with a trade was fruitless because Boy Blunder was asking the moon for the guy. Youkilis was begining to have physical problems by that time and Kotchman has always been a reglular up to that time and chaffed at being relegated to the bench. Francona, IMO, by this time was becoming more befuddled, was playing with a ring around the rosie batting order. The team deteriorated that summer and eventually missed the playoffs.

[Spitball]

Sorry my friend but that rotation was anything but effective. You had a rapidly deteriorating Varitek being inserted into the lineup when it was evident that his time was up and that he could no longer hit after the first of June. Lowell, a terrific player and class act, was a cripple by then and all attempts to give him a place to land with a trade was fruitless because Boy Blunder was asking the moon for the guy. Youkilis was begining to have physical problems by that time and Kotchman has always been a reglular up to that time and chaffed at being relegated to the bench. Francona, IMO, by this time was becoming more befuddled, was playing with a ring around the rosie batting order. The team deteriorated that summer and eventually missed the playoffs.

 

I was talking about 2009. The four had decent OPS numbers, Youkilis .961, Martinez .912, Lowell .811, Varitek .703. The team won 95 games and made the playoffs.

 

Kotchman wasn't on the 2010 team.

[seabeachfred]

I was talking about 2009. The four had decent OPS numbers, Youkilis .961, Martinez .912, Lowell .811, Varitek .703. The team won 95 games and made the playoffs.

 

Kotchman wasn't on the 2010 team.

 

Got you Spitball. It was 2009. However, keep in mind that at the ASB we were three games up in front of the Yankees in first place and as soon as the second half began we went into the deep freeze and lost that lead very fast. I always believed that Francona's willingness to keep trying to get Varitek in that lineup when he no longer could hit a lick really hurt the team. And didn't Youk get injured late in the season? I believed that we could have put Kotchman at first and keep Victor behind the plate and been much better off offensively and maybe better defensively as well since by that time Jason couldn't throw worth a damn anymore either.

 

Bad year it turned out to be. We were swept out in the ALDS by the Angels while the Yankees won the WS. I still feel Francona's inept field managing cost us the division title that year as well as in 2005 and 2008.

[Behindenemylines]

Day 27 of the Napoli thing. This is getting old real fast. The time this thing is settled the Sox could still be without a 1B. They need production from that position (power).

[seabeachfred]

Day 27 of the Napoli thing. This is getting old real fast. The time this thing is settled the Sox could still be without a 1B. They need production from that position (power).

 

Once again the Red Sox brass hats are trying to show how smart and slick they are and are about to have this whole thing blow up in the faces.....AGAIN!!!!!!! Twenty-seven days without an outcome of any sort? Yes, we need production and some leadership from that position and we ain't gonna get it from Gomez or Satalamacchia if they Sox are dumb enough to put that defense challenged, poor OBA, high strikeout whiz and weak defensive stumblebum out there. They should now move quickly to sign LaRoche before he is off the boards. The front office cannot not fart and chew gum at the same time anymore.

 

GET IT DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

Once again the Red Sox brass hats are trying to show how smart and slick they are and are about to have this whole thing blow up in the faces.....AGAIN!!!!!!! Twenty-seven days without an outcome of any sort? Yes, we need production and some leadership from that position and we ain't gonna get it from Gomez or Satalamacchia if they Sox are dumb enough to put that defense challenged, poor OBA, high strikeout whiz and weak defensive stumblebum out there. They should now move quickly to sign LaRoche before he is off the boards. The front office cannot not fart and chew gum at the same time anymore.

 

GET IT DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stumblebum. You don't hear that one much anymore. Was that a New York term? It's a colorful term.

[User Name]

Once again the Red Sox brass hats are trying to show how smart and slick they are and are about to have this whole thing blow up in the faces.....AGAIN!!!!!!! Twenty-seven days without an outcome of any sort? Yes, we need production and some leadership from that position and we ain't gonna get it from Gomez or Satalamacchia if they Sox are dumb enough to put that defense challenged, poor OBA, high strikeout whiz and weak defensive stumblebum out there. They should now move quickly to sign LaRoche before he is off the boards. The front office cannot not fart and chew gum at the same time anymore.

 

GET IT DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Or they could take their time and insert the protective language into Napoli's contract and sign him under their terms, since he is their desired target given the fact that LaRoche is not a good fit.

 

The moral of this story is that there's seemingly no way to satisfy you Fred. Maybe you would prefer they forfeit a draft pick for a guy that may quickly decline and who you will bitch about too?

[seabeachfred]

Stumblebum. You don't hear that one much anymore. Was that a New York term? It's a colorful term.

 

Yes 700, it was a New York term. Some New York things you never get out of your system no matter how long since you moved away. Some people with New York roots still use it out here in California but all in all it isn't used much anymore. Hell even in the East they've sanitized things from what I've heard. Now the term is Ditch when we used to call it Ringalario or Ringalevio (teams being chased within prescribed bounaries until caught and brought to jail). Also keep-away was called Salugi when I was a kid. Kick the can. Three on a pony, etc. All those games gone. Kids today either are on the computer or hanging out.

[seabeachfred]

Or they could take their time and insert the protective language into Napoli's contract and sign him under their terms, since he is their desired target given the fact that LaRoche is not a good fit.

 

The moral of this story is that there's seemingly no way to satisfy you Fred. Maybe you would prefer they forfeit a draft pick for a guy that may quickly decline and who you will bitch about too?

 

Or they could take their time and blow the whole gambit---just as they did with Damon in late 2005, with Teixiera in late 2008, with Bay and Holiday in late 2009, or with Cody Ross this winter.

 

The moral of this story is that you stubbornly have an almost pathalogical attachment and confidence in a front office that has proved its incompetency time and again the past few years. As far as draft choices are concerned, they are crapshoots anyway. For every Pedroia there is a Craig Hansen, for every Jacoby Ellsbury there is an Andy Marte, for every Jonathan Papelbon there is a Manny Delcarmen. Meanwhile first basemen who hit 30 plus homers and drive in 110 plus runs are nowhere to be now found in Boston, neither at Fenway Park or in our farm system.

 

Pleased? I will be pleased when the RED SOX start winning AL East Division Titles to begin the winning ways again instead of one paltry one in the past 17 years. When we win more than two AL Pennants that the two we've won in the past 26 seasons. From there I'd more than take my chances in the World Series. Fine for you if you think that this record is satisfactory for you; it isn't for me. I want a helluva lot more than that.

 

As for Napoli, it has been four weeks now. Get it done or move on before we're forced to put those two stumblebums on first with most likely disastrous results to follow.

[a700hitter]

Or they could take their time and blow the whole gambit---just as they did with Damon in late 2005, with Teixiera in late 2008, with Bay and Holiday in late 2009, or with Cody Ross this winter.

 

The moral of this story is that you stubbornly have an almost pathalogical attachment and confidence in a front office that has proved its incompetency time and again the past few years. As far as draft choices are concerned, they are crapshoots anyway. For every Pedroia there is a Craig Hansen, for every Jacoby Ellsbury there is an Andy Marte, for every Jonathan Papelbon there is a Manny Delcarmen. Meanwhile first basemen who hit 30 plus homers and drive in 110 plus runs are nowhere to be now found in Boston, neither at Fenway Park or in our farm system.

 

Pleased? I will be pleased when the RED SOX start winning AL East Division Titles to begin the winning ways again instead of one paltry one in the past 17 years. When we win more than two AL Pennants that the two we've won in the past 26 seasons. From there I'd more than take my chances in the World Series. Fine for you if you think that this record is satisfactory for you; it isn't for me. I want a helluva lot more than that.

 

As for Napoli, it has been four weeks now. Get it done or move on before we're forced to put those two stumblebums on first with most likely disastrous results to follow.

Oh come on Fred, us entitled spoiled Red Sox fans expect too much. This great ownership group and FO has finished first once in its 11 year tenure. Thank goodness for the wild card. That's the same number of times that they finished first in the 11 years prior to 2002. From 1980-90 they finished first 3 times. As Red Sox fans, we should be more thankful for the wild card than JH and his band of carpetbaggers.

[mvp 78]

Day 27 of the Napoli thing. This is getting old real fast. The time this thing is settled the Sox could still be without a 1B. They need production from that position (power).

 

It took 70 days to sign JD Drew. This deal won't get done anytime soon.