Sources say Napoli signs with Sox.

[redsoxfan3]

Maybe that's what's holding up the Hanrahan trade? Maybe they have decided they won't sign Napoli and therefore need Sands and are renegotiating now?

 

I doubt that is the case. They are just working on figuring out the other players. It has been reported that the trade is going to get done, but just after Christmas. Sands and Pimentel are the two players that are headed to Pittsburgh. Melancon is likely the third. We are just not sure about the 2nd player coming back to Boston and the 4th player going to the Pirates. I guess that may be a logical scenario, but I just don't think that is the case.

 

If they were really worried about being able to sign Napoli why would they have moved Sands, who put up a respectable season last year in AAA and actually played some 1B, for a RP--where they have some relative depth?

 

Exactly. They have to think that this Napoli deal is going to get done. We just watched Swisher sign with the Guardians. LaRoche is likely to sign with the Nats. Sands is headed to Pittsburgh. Sands was a guy who would have been an internal option to compete with Gomez.

[SoxFanForsyth]

“@Jen_Royle: Adam LaRoche is holding out for 3 years from the Nats. Sides are "making progress," but if Boston swooped in and offered 3, he'd take it.”

 

With the potential injury concerns from Napoli, I would say he's going to get very little C time. So now, if Napoli is strictly a 1B, would you rather have LaRoche or Napoli?

 

I think Napoli would be more productive offensively, but that's giving up a lot defensively

[Lucienbel]

“@Jen_Royle: Adam LaRoche is holding out for 3 years from the Nats. Sides are "making progress," but if Boston swooped in and offered 3, he'd take it.”

 

With the potential injury concerns from Napoli, I would say he's going to get very little C time. So now, if Napoli is strictly a 1B, would you rather have LaRoche or Napoli?

 

I think Napoli would be more productive offensively, but that's giving up a lot defensively

 

Said it before too, if Napoli isn't going to be able to put in some time catching I'm personally not too interested. A loss of versatility really hurts him. If he wouldn't be able to catch I'd much prefer LaRoche. Knowing that Napoli has injury risks anyway makes me prefer LaRoche anyway. Even if he does lose some production to Fenway, it seems like his numbers will still be decent and he'll be much better defensively at first.

[a700hitter]

“@Jen_Royle: Adam LaRoche is holding out for 3 years from the Nats. Sides are "making progress," but if Boston swooped in and offered 3, he'd take it.”

 

With the potential injury concerns from Napoli, I would say he's going to get very little C time. So now, if Napoli is strictly a 1B, would you rather have LaRoche or Napoli?

 

I think Napoli would be more productive offensively, but that's giving up a lot defensively

LaRoche

[SoxSport]

If Napoli can't catch, his contract should be reduced in money as well as years. It would be hard to justify 3/$39.

[seabeachfred]

I disagree. Gomez has been a pretty good minor league hitter with a clue how to work a count in his favor. Minor league averages are a strong indicator of major league success, and Gomez has decent numbers. His minor league slash line is .281/.334/.484. and is strong enough to conclude he can fill first base about as well as Napoli.

 

For me, Napoli puts up very good catcher offensive numbers but not particularly strong first base numbers. Gomez might be a drop...but certainly not a significant drop.

 

 

Spitball---a drop of any kind is something we don't need for next year. We have to find ways to move up the ladder. Gomez has been floating around the minors for years and if he hasn't caught on with other teams there is no magic in a Red Sox uniform that will guarantee that he will suddenly emerge as a stalwart or even an adequate replacement for Gonzales. Napoli eats up pitches at Fenway Park and to me is a very significant improvement over both Loney and Gomez. We have a good idea of what Napoli can do and ditto for LaRoche if we are forced to go after him (which I think we better be ready to do if the Napoli thing keeps going South), but Gomez is a weak fielder and has average power and has never distinguished himself in the Bigs. We can do better in my opinion and we have to.

 

Thanks, though, for your reply Spitball. If it turns out we have to go with Gomez I hope he is everything you think he is

[seabeachfred]

Cherington has been the most active GM in baseball since the trade of Beckett, Crawford and Gonzalez.

 

Fred, just curious....but what are your expectations?

 

This team is going to be between 82-86 wins and the FA market was terrible. The two best players on the market were head cases, and the third best player is a barely above average outfielder.

 

Trading Jose Iglesias for Felix Hernandez is not going to happen, so realistically......what would you have done different?

 

Finally got off your ignore list SCM. That's good; sorry for the misunderstanding. I take it you get just as much upset with what you thought I accused you of as I was with what you said to piss me off. Hopefully we will get along well from here on in.

 

Now to your questions. I think the AL East is wide open next season and any one of five teams fan win it. We are NOT the favorite and we're probably not No. 2 either, but we've seen teams come from bottom to top before. I expect us to compete for the division title or WC next season. As you know I am NOT a long suffering fan having come on board just a couple of years before the team took off (lucky for me), and while I can appreciate you fans who have had to eat a lot of heartache for decades, I don't have those memories and don't want any. What happened in 2001, and the last season and one month was enough for me.

 

I'm in complete agreement with you on those two head cases, and that outfielder if it was BJ you were referring to, well ditto on that as well. Cherington did some good things this winter so far, but Victorino was not one of them. I would have signed Cody Ross before Shane any day of the week. He wll not hit with the power that Ross did and if remains to be seen if he can handle the Fenway Park pressure. I hope he can. If t he Napoli things drags on for another couple of days I want Cherington to run like hell to the telephone and get ahold of Adam LaRoche's agent lickity split. If he can do that and also get Shane Marcum I would be more than pleased to enter the season with some hope in 2013.

 

And please allow me to wish you a very Merry Christmas if you are Christian, or Happy Holiday if you're not.

[SoxSport]

Spitball---a drop of any kind is something we don't need for next year. We have to find ways to move up the ladder. Gomez has been floating around the minors for years and if he hasn't caught on with other teams there is no magic in a Red Sox uniform that will guarantee that he will suddenly emerge as a stalwart or even an adequate replacement for Gonzales. Napoli eats up pitches at Fenway Park and to me is a very significant improvement over both Loney and Gomez. We have a good idea of what Napoli can do and ditto for LaRoche if we are forced to go after him (which I think we better be ready to do if the Napoli thing keeps going South), but Gomez is a weak fielder and has average power and has never distinguished himself in the Bigs. We can do better in my opinion and we have to.

 

Thanks, though, for your reply Spitball. If it turns out we have to go with Gomez I hope he is everything you think he is

 

 

Check out Gomez' minor league stats. He's been around since he was 19, but didn't start playing a lot in A ball until about 5 years ago. His last two years in AAA have been solid--hitting over .300, and playing decent 1B. His defensive numbers at 3B are not good.

He looks like a guy who started early--age 19--and who took awhile to develop. He may have been held up by injuries his first few years.

 

He hasn't played enough in Boston to get a solid read on his ML hitting potential, but he showed enough to stick around for a further look. Players take different times to develop, and it takes patience.

[jung]

I think the longer the Napoli thing goes the more I suspect the hip issue is of very serious concern and as somebody has already mentioned likely limits his catching stints to 0 games. I really don't know why we would still want Napoli. He is a poor defensive 1st baseman with bad wheels just a step a way from a very long stint on the DL. Tell me again why I should be excited about that!

[Bellhorn04]

I think the longer the Napoli thing goes the more I suspect the hip issue is of very serious concern and as somebody has already mentioned likely limits his catching stints to 0 games. I really don't know why we would still want Napoli. He is a poor defensive 1st baseman with bad wheels just a step a way from a very long stint on the DL. Tell me again why I should be excited about that!

 

We're all just speculating. But if Napoli's hip condition was that serious surely they would have just walked away rather than keep their first base situation in limbo this long. Makes more sense to me that the two sides are dickering over the contract language.

 

As for excited, a few three-run bombs long gone over the Monster will take care of that.

 

Yeah, I'm one of the people who still wants Napoli.

[NZSox]

Yeah, I'm one of the people who still wants Napoli.

 

Seconded.

[jung]

Sure there still dickering over the language. The Sox want language that protects them with more surety than they had in the JD Drew language and Napoli's people don't want to give it. Sounds to me like one side or the other will have to capitulate. Just the fact that they have taken it this far suggests that they would be dead and to stupid to fall over if the Sox were the side that capitulated.

[iortiz]

Isn't done yet? Why in the hell don't go after LaRoche?

 

Move on Ben.

[BSN07]

Isn't done yet? Why in the hell don't go after LaRoche?

 

Move on Ben.

 

Because Laroche is not a good fit? He's 33 and not putting up those '12 numbers at Fenway. If he was worth keeping around long term the Sox would have kept him the first go round.

 

I got nothing against the guy, he's decent player, but not someone I'd want to see the Sox dump 3/40-45M on.

[NZSox]

Said it before too, if Napoli isn't going to be able to put in some time catching I'm personally not too interested. A loss of versatility really hurts him. If he wouldn't be able to catch I'd much prefer LaRoche. Knowing that Napoli has injury risks anyway makes me prefer LaRoche anyway. Even if he does lose some production to Fenway, it seems like his numbers will still be decent and he'll be much better defensively at first.

 

Will LaRoche put up as strong numbers offensively as Napoli at Fenway though? Seems that Fenway is much better suited to Nap's righty power game

[Dojji]

One thing Fenway is not suited to is the kind of offensive game Napoli plays.

 

Fenway suits itself best to righthanded line drive hitters with solid contact ability. Not heavy bombers like Napoli. I don't think he'll fail to hit here, but park factors won't be why.

[Spitball]

Spitball---a drop of any kind is something we don't need for next year. We have to find ways to move up the ladder. Gomez has been floating around the minors for years and if he hasn't caught on with other teams there is no magic in a Red Sox uniform that will guarantee that he will suddenly emerge as a stalwart or even an adequate replacement for Gonzales. Napoli eats up pitches at Fenway Park and to me is a very significant improvement over both Loney and Gomez. We have a good idea of what Napoli can do and ditto for LaRoche if we are forced to go after him (which I think we better be ready to do if the Napoli thing keeps going South), but Gomez is a weak fielder and has average power and has never distinguished himself in the Bigs. We can do better in my opinion and we have to.

 

Thanks, though, for your reply Spitball. If it turns out we have to go with Gomez I hope he is everything you think he is

 

I am not saying he is a great choice at first base. I am saying he has decent minor league numbers and probably wouldn't be significantly less productive than Napoli.

 

Btw, his .987 fielding average at first for seven minor league seasons and time at third base would indicate he isn't a terrible fielding first baseman.

[Bellhorn04]

One thing Fenway is not suited to is the kind of offensive game Napoli plays.

 

Fenway suits itself best to righthanded line drive hitters with solid contact ability. Not heavy bombers like Napoli. I don't think he'll fail to hit here, but park factors won't be why.

 

Wouldn't Cody Ross be the heavy bomber type who benefitted considerably from Fenway? Ross hit .298 with 39 extra base hits at Fenway, .232 with 18 extra base hits on the road. Ross's career BA is .262, Napoli's is .259.

[User Name]

Wouldn't Cody Ross be the heavy bomber type who benefitted considerably from Fenway? Ross hit .298 with 39 extra base hits at Fenway, .232 with 18 extra base hits on the road. Ross's career BA is .262, Napoli's is .259.

 

What he says makes no sense. Not only has Napoli raked in Fenway over his career, but history had shown with guys like Jason Bay and Ross that Boston heavily favors right handed hitters who pull with power. The monster is there to help, this is fact.

[SCM33]

One thing Fenway is not suited to is the kind of offensive game Napoli plays.

 

Fenway suits itself best to righthanded line drive hitters with solid contact ability. Not heavy bombers like Napoli. I don't think he'll fail to hit here, but park factors won't be why.

 

What?

 

Fenway is historically suited for RH hitters.

 

In 1980 Tony Perez went from 14 to 25 homers at 38 years old in his first year here.

In 1983 and 84 Tony Armas went from 28 homers to 36, then 43 in his first 2 years here.

In 1986 Don Baylor went from 23HR to 31HR in his first year here.

In 1989 Nick Esasky went from 15HR to 30HR in his first year here.

In 1995, a 170 pound SS...John Valentin...a doubles hitter hit 27HR.

In 1997 and 1998, a 165 pound SS...Garciapparra hit 30, then 35HRs in his first 2 seasons.

In 2003, Kevin Millar went from 16HR to 25HR in his first year here.

In 2006, Mike Lowell went from 8HR to 20HR in his first year here.

In 2010, Adrian Beltre went from 8HR to 28HR in his first and only year here.

In 2010, Bill Hall went from 8HR to 18HR in his first and only year here.

In 2012, Cody Ross went from 14HR to 22HR in his first and only year here.

 

The ONLY times I can think of when it failed, was Jack Clark and Andre Dawson....who both had knees that were shot, and wayyy past their prime.

 

Napoli would hit between 25-30 Home Runs here if he played everyday. You couldn't be more wrong.

[Lucienbel]

What he says makes no sense. Not only has Napoli raked in Fenway over his career, but history had shown with guys like Jason Bay and Ross that Boston heavily favors right handed hitters who pull with power. The monster is there to help, this is fact.

 

Not really sure what he's talking about. Napoli likes Fenway a lot. I don't really think the question was ever his offense. More a question of his defense, how many games he'll be able to catch and now his health too.

[Spitball]

What?

 

Fenway is historically suited for RH hitters.

 

In 1980 Tony Perez went from 14 to 25 homers at 38 years old in his first year here.

In 1983 and 84 Tony Armas went from 28 homers to 36, then 43 in his first 2 years here.

In 1986 Don Baylor went from 23HR to 31HR in his first year here.

In 1989 Nick Esasky went from 15HR to 30HR in his first year here.

In 1995, a 170 pound SS...John Valentin...a doubles hitter hit 27HR.

In 1997 and 1998, a 165 pound SS...Garciapparra hit 30, then 35HRs in his first 2 seasons.

In 2003, Kevin Millar went from 16HR to 25HR in his first year here.

In 2006, Mike Lowell went from 8HR to 20HR in his first year here.

In 2010, Adrian Beltre went from 8HR to 28HR in his first and only year here.

In 2010, Bill Hall went from 8HR to 18HR in his first and only year here.

In 2012, Cody Ross went from 14HR to 22HR in his first and only year here.

 

The ONLY times I can think of when it failed, was Jack Clark and Andre Dawson....who both had knees that were shot, and wayyy past their prime.

 

Napoli would hit between 25-30 Home Runs here if he played everyday. You couldn't be more wrong.

 

Those are interesting statistics, but they are a bit misleading. Some of the guys you listed had careers that featured serious power numbers but were coming off poor seasons for one reason or another.

 

Tony Perez had a Hall of Fame career hitting fourth for the Big Red Machine. He once had 40 homers in a season. Also, he hit only 9 his second year in Boston. I'm sure the decline was due to age but then his 30 homer season was probably a fluke at his advanced age..

 

Don Baylor averaged 24 homers a year for 19 years.

 

Nick Esasky never had 500 plate appearances until he came to Boston. For the Sox, he had 633 when he hit 30. He twice hit more than 20 in about 400 plate appearances prior to coming to Boston. He was never truly a regular until his first year in Boston.

 

Kevin Millar's situation is simular to Esasky. Millar had a 20 homer season, but he never had 600 plate appearances until he came to Boston.

 

Beltre and Lowell had 8 homer seasons in unusually poor seasons for them. Beltre hit for power before and since. Lowell had five consecutive seasons before his poor power season when he averaged about 25 homers per year.

 

Bill Hall once hit 30 homers in a season. Cody Ross had a few 20 homer seasons while playing in that large Miami stadium.

 

I believe Fenway favors right handed bats, but some of the greatest have been left handed. Since 1983 and the luxory suites, I believe the power numbers are down since then.

[redsoxfan3]

One thing Fenway is not suited to is the kind of offensive game Napoli plays.

 

Fenway suits itself best to righthanded line drive hitters with solid contact ability. Not heavy bombers like Napoli. I don't think he'll fail to hit here, but park factors won't be why.

 

Don't really agree with you or know what you are trying to say. If you are a "heavy bomber," then I do not think it matters what park you play in. You say that Fenway is "best to righthanded line drive hitters with solid contact ability." You can hit line drives in any park and be successful. Fenway is actually one of the only parks where you can hit a high pop fly to LF and have it carry over the Green Monster, where it might still be in play in some other ballparks that are deeper than Fenway. You have to get the ball high enough to hit it over the Green Monster. A line drive hitter is always good, but sometimes a line drive in Fenway might be a shot off of the Green Monster, where as it could be a homer in another park if it is hit far enough in a park with a shorter fence.

 

I think Napoli will benefit from Fenway since he is RH. I think park factors will be helpful for him. Some routine popups that he might hit in other parks could possibly be hit off of the Green Monster. I certainly do not think park factors will hurt him at all and could be a reason he could become a successful hitter in Boston.

[seabeachfred]

Aren't we all splitting hairs here? Fenway Park has a left field wall that is only 315 feet from home plate and it also has, what, a 37 foot Green Monster wall? This park is earmarked for RH hitters with sock. Keep in mind that you can hit it over the wall if you are a slugger and off the wall if you are solid contact hitter who can hit for good average and decent power. If you're really good you can do both. To me a LH hitter with ability to hit to all fields can hit for average but his power is limited by the spacious terrain in RF. Oh yes, Ted Williams could do it, so could Yaz and now Papi but they're the exceptions rather than the rule in my opinion. A good hitter will hit most anywhere but to me Fenway is a right hand hitter's paradise and SCM presented a pretty solid case, again in my opinion.

[Palodios]

What?

 

Fenway is historically suited for RH hitters.

 

In 1980 Tony Perez went from 14 to 25 homers at 38 years old in his first year here.

In 1983 and 84 Tony Armas went from 28 homers to 36, then 43 in his first 2 years here.

In 1986 Don Baylor went from 23HR to 31HR in his first year here.

In 1989 Nick Esasky went from 15HR to 30HR in his first year here.

In 1995, a 170 pound SS...John Valentin...a doubles hitter hit 27HR.

In 1997 and 1998, a 165 pound SS...Garciapparra hit 30, then 35HRs in his first 2 seasons.

In 2003, Kevin Millar went from 16HR to 25HR in his first year here.

In 2006, Mike Lowell went from 8HR to 20HR in his first year here.

In 2010, Adrian Beltre went from 8HR to 28HR in his first and only year here.

In 2010, Bill Hall went from 8HR to 18HR in his first and only year here.

In 2012, Cody Ross went from 14HR to 22HR in his first and only year here.

 

The ONLY times I can think of when it failed, was Jack Clark and Andre Dawson....who both had knees that were shot, and wayyy past their prime.

 

Napoli would hit between 25-30 Home Runs here if he played everyday. You couldn't be more wrong.

 

Excellent research.

[SoxSport]

The latest tweets from multi-sources are saying the Red Sox are going after LaRoche, and he won't sign anywhere for less than 3 years. The interpretation is they are pulling out of the Napoli deal.

 

That would also be consistent with the delay in the Hanrahan deal--perhaps getting Garrett Jones was contingent on signing Napoli.

 

Speculation, but the tweets is where it's at these days on rumors.

[jacksonianmarch]

That'd surely be interesting. LaRoche is the wrong move, IMO. He's a guy who will struggle to hit to a .800OPS and he's already 33 yrs old. Not sure if committing 3 yrs to a guy for his mid 30s who isnt suited for the park is a good idea.

[Spitball]

Selected and isolated examples of individual performances are not necessarily definitive proof of an argument.

 

I will give you that Fenway Park benefits right handed hitters. For example, in 2012, right handed hitters in Fenway out performed right handed hitters in other parks in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, and BiP. However, as far as homeruns by right handers go, Fenway Park trailed homerun rates per at bat in Toronto, Texas, Baltimore, Chicago (WS), and Arizona.

 

I will give you that one year is a selected and does not prove a point, but as former GM Theo Epstein said, “We like Fenway for left handed, opposite-field hitters more than we do for right handed pull hitters because it rewards good habits for the lefties—letting the ball travel, staying inside the ball, etc. For righties, Fenway can get you into bad habits—leaking, getting around the ball—that are tough to shake."

 

For the team as a whole, left-handed batters have dominated team history at Fenway Park. With a minimum of 1,000 at-bats at Fenway Park, 11 of the top 15 (and five of the top six) home batting averages in team history have been produced by left handed batters. Lefty batters Wade Boggs (.369), Ted Williams (.356), Carl Yastrzemski (.306) and even Troy O’Leary (.304) have hit better at Fenway.

 

Fenway is a great park for righties, but other factors are more important in determining potential players.

[jacksonianmarch]

LaRoche is a dead pull hitter

[SoxSport]

I'm following Jen Royle's tweets on LaRoche. She says LaRoche prefers to stay in DC, but Rizzo isn't budging on 2 yrs so far. LaRoche wants 3 yrs because of Swisher et al signings. The Red Sox would probably go 3 years, but looks like a contingency in case they reach an impasse with Napoli--if they haven't already. Looks like they are maintaining contact with LaRoche, if only as leverage with Napoli.