Sources say Napoli signs with Sox.

[seabeachfred]

They made the right call with Bay. Clearly they were correct in his injury assessment. Maybe they are making the right call here?

 

And maybe they're not; most likely if we take their record in these types of negotiations the past four seasons they are in the midst of blowing another signing. As for the right call on Bay, it seems you are one of many who keep saying that. Keep in mind that it was when Jason ran into a wall and suffered a serious concussion that at that new ballpark that his career started to unravel. There is all likelihood that had he stayed in Fenway he would not have suffered such a debiltating injury and might have resumed a career that saw hit hit 36 homers and drive in 119 runs in his last season as a Red Sox.

 

And what did we do after we let Jason Bay walk? We signed that miserable over the hill relic Mike Cameron who stunk before and after we got him, moved Ellsbury to left to supposedly "save his legs" whereupon he suffered a season ending rib injury. I could also remind you MVP that we tried to lowball Matt Holliday who Epstink tried to get to take Bay's place, failed there and then tried to cover his ass by signing John Lackey. Remember those events?

 

Unlike you my friend I have little if any confidence in our front office. In short pretty much of what they have done the past four seasons could be judged as one big CLUSETERf***!!!!!!! I also repeat that if we don't get this Napoli thing straightened out quickly we are going to most likely be holding an empty bag again, and accept from those who see the front office as doing no wrong (not you, I believe), the Red Sox leadership is going to have open season declared on them from fans, the media, the press and Red Sox Nation. It is about time Henry and company get their s*** together after countless screwups the past four seasons.

[jacksonianmarch]

Open season on management has been in season since the Sept 2011 collapse. The sox management needs to worry about fan apathy. Anger and exhilaration makes them money. Apathy kills the franchise. The fans were exhilarated from April 2011- Augt 2011, they've been angry since. If they continue to languish, they'll reach the apathy stage. I have a feeling a misguided big move is on the horizon

[jung]

You know I wish I could say the Sox should just hold their noses and sign Napoli. But I don't think the Sox are being unreasonable (this without having any idea what is actually in the agreement...just based on what is being reported). It appears to me that they just want the time they are paying for. They are willing to pay the player....they are willing to sign the player...just aren't willing to be ripped on new one at the same time.

 

If JD Drew had not played them like a violin through most of the length of his contract I think they would be less antsy about this kinda' stuff. But you don't see players standing in line to give back some part of the money when they end up playing about half the time they are contracted for.

 

I do think all of this s*** is getting really messy and that is why I typed earlier that I think we will see much of this addressed in the next CBA negotiation. I think we will end up seeing some rules about the options that teams have and the options that players have in this sort of situation.

[Lord Snow]

You know I wish I could say the Sox should just hold their noses and sign Napoli. But I don't think the Sox are being unreasonable (this without having any idea what is actually in the agreement...just based on what is being reported). It appears to me that they just want the time they are paying for. They are willing to pay the player....they are willing to sign the player...just aren't willing to be ripped on new one at the same time.

 

If JD Drew had not played them like a violin through most of the length of his contract I think they would be less antsy about this kinda' stuff. But you don't see players standing in line to give back some part of the money when they end up playing about half the time they are contracted for.

 

I do think all of this s*** is getting really messy and that is why I typed earlier that I think we will see much of this addressed in the next CBA negotiation. I think we will end up seeing some rules about the options that teams have and the options that players have in this sort of situation.

 

For as lame of a player that JD Drew was, he was a pretty good signing. The numbers are there.

 

Drew played really good defense for the Sox and he had an OBP north of .370 for the first 3 years of the contract, 2010 was a mediocre season (22 HR, .793 OPS), and 2011 was a bad season. But the first 4 years were more than tolerable if you can get over the injury-pansiness of Drew.

 

Looking at the state of the current Red Sox I'd love to have another JD Drew on board.

 

I'm a firm believer that having a high OBP is one of the most important stats for a player, not only because they get on base a lot, but because those hitters tends to work the count, tire out opposing starting pitchers, get to the bullpen sooner, and tire them out early in a series. All that helps win ballgames.

 

When you have half your line-up being consistently 3 pitch outs you don't get to the bullpen early, and you get slaughtered when you face an ace because he's going to be in there ALL game.

[jung]

What happened between JD and the Sox has nothing to do with how he performed while on the field and everything to do with how he handled his injury situation as it related to his contract. Those are separate discussions.

[jacksonianmarch]

One thing you may see is a physical being performed under the noses of the MLBPA. Hence, a player who passes the MLBPA physical will then be able to avoid this crap that the sox are throwing out there

[jung]

While this is only indirectly related, this might also be another aspect of simply relying to much on high ticket FA talent to fill up your roster. You end up with just to many ballplayers that have already established a high level of value in the market place and their baseball careers become less about playing baseball and more about signing baseball contracts and endorsement contracts etc etc.

[SoxSport]

While this is only indirectly related, this might also be another aspect of simply relying to much on high ticket FA talent to fill up your roster. You end up with just to many ballplayers that have already established a high level of value in the market place and their baseball careers become less about playing baseball and more about signing baseball contracts and endorsement contracts etc etc.

 

Napoli , Dempster and Victorino are examples of middling over 30 players that are being paid as though they were pretty high ticket. You add these salaries up, and you're right back to where you started last year--no more luxury cap room. That's a bad position to be in when you have a bunch of older guys with no upside.

 

They spent a lot of money just to be respectable. I don't think that's enough for the fans.

I think they would get a lot more slack from the fans if they just played some of the kids right now, and hope glass turns into diamond--like Middlebrooks.

 

I still think the 3 year contract limit is more a selling the team window than a waiting for the prospects window. Those prospects should be ready long before 3 years. Even 2 years. They are a year or so away, if that. Guys like Sands and Gomez should be showing something right now. And DeLaRosa may be ready by mid season next year.

[rjortiz]

Napoli , Dempster and Victorino are examples of middling over 30 players that are being paid as though they were pretty high ticket. You add these salaries up, and you're right back to where you started last year--no more luxury cap room. That's a bad position to be in when you have a bunch of older guys with no upside.

 

They spent a lot of money just to be respectable. I don't think that's enough for the fans.

I think they would get a lot more slack from the fans if they just played some of the kids right now, and hope glass turns into diamond--like Middlebrooks.

 

I still think the 3 year contract limit is more a selling the team window than a waiting for the prospects window. Those prospects should be ready long before 3 years. Even 2 years. They are a year or so away, if that. Guys like Sands and Gomez should be showing something right now. And DeLaRosa may be ready by mid season next year.

 

They're getting paid to be above average regulars. $13 million doesn't go as far as it once did. Gomez is 27 and still in AAA, and Sands is old for AAA and mashed in the PCL, so take his numbers with a grain of salt. They signed Napoli, because they have no one else to play 1B. If he fails his physical, I hope they sign LaRoche.

[jung]

It is interesting that the increase in salaries at the highest level of the sport (the superstar) seems finally to have pulled up the middling players behind them. That was not the case earlier and before I get through sticking my big foot in my big mouth I would not put it past the Sox to be driving this whole thing. They have clearly made markets for players before and here they are out hunting up seemingly every middling player they can find as a FA. Are they doing it again...once again making a market for players?

 

Anyway this might actually provide even more incentive to build through your developmental system and your farm system. It might be one thing to overspend or overpay a superstar player...somebody people want to watch play....somebody that not only puts up numbers that leads to wins but does in fact have that added boost of generating interest from fans. You don't get any of that with the middling players. Either the result in wins for the team is good or it is not. If I can't get that and I am still stuck with the increased injury risk due to age (lets face it, most FA are older) then the overpay in this category of player is quite possibly even more senseless than it is for the superstar. You might get a more malleable player since he probably does not carry that superstar mentality with him and that surely would help the chemistry of the team. But if they don't win, the last thing we will want to see is a bunch of grinning idiots in that dugout.

 

Like it or not there are players that stop you in your tracks because you have gone to the game to see them play. In my lifetime and within my geographic region having grown up in Connecticut close to both Fenway and the Bronx, THE GUY that was that guy above all others was Mickey Mantle. People would stop what they were doing to listen to the radio more intently when Mickey came to the plate. Did not matter if it was a big moment in the game or not. Just having Mantle come to the plate was a big enough moment on its own.

 

I was mowing our lawn sort of swearing under my breadth as my dad was lounging on the back porch with a cool drink in hand watching my toils when he shouted to me.....Mickey is coming up. He was as you might guess listening to the radio. I stopped as it was his intent for me to stop and listen with him. That was the day that the Mick hit a ball off the facade in right field, the closest anybody had ever come till then and since getting a ball out of the old Yankee Stadium. We both knew where that facade was. We both simply could not imagine hitting it let alone realizing that had it not been there Mickey probably would have gotten that thing out of Yankee Stadium. Days, weeks even years after, my dad and I would go to a game (not only was my dad the arbiter of how many chores I had to do but he was a yankee fan) and we would hear and see at least one or two groups of fans looking up at that spot in wonderment ....this is years later! You could tell they had not been there since and had made a point looking for that spot.

 

On the one hand it is easy for us to look at the "stupidity" of spending big bucks for guys cause they are going to put fannies in seats. On the other hand, I can see how owners and club Presidents just break into sweats at the possibility of having a guy or guys that have that impact.

[seabeachfred]

Whether the MLPA gets involved in the next contract talks concerning these damn physicals it isn't doing us a crapload of good right now. We need a first baseman,, we don't have one, we traded our best 1B prospect for a seasoned slugger only to trade him away. We have nothing over there and I mean with Mauro Gomez, we still have nothing. While we parry and play games with Napoli we risk both LaRoche and Swisher getting inked. Then what? Maybe Morse? Come on guys, the front office is on its way to clusterf***ing another deal as they have become so proficient at the past four seasons. Keep in mind that Napoli is still a free agent and could simply tell the Red Sox to stuff it and move on. I wonder then would there still be people here still defending and lauding our inept front office?

[jung]

What is interesting is that Napoli apparently has not already told the Sox to stuff it and move on. There might be something more to this hip than he is willing to admit to or else I expect he would have done that. That is my biggest problem with all of this s***. The Sox simply want to get the time they are paying for. Why is that so unreasonable?

 

They don't want to pay for 3 years of service and get 1.5 years of service. The whole dynamic of preexisting condition and free agency has gotten so cock eyed f***ed up mainly because there is so much money being tossed around frivolously that suddenly the Sox are the villain here.

 

I still would contend that if JD had not successfully danced around the language in his contract with regard to his shoulder then the Sox would likely not be here right now. This ******** starts with the player wanting to have his cake and eat it to not the other way around.

 

I don't think we will ever see MLPA sponsored or supervised medicals before an agreement in principle is reached because the way it is now the burden is all on the team. The team really has no idea and no way of finding out how prepared the player is to play OVER THE CONTRACT PERIOD and can't find out anything until an agreement in principle is reached. What the player is capable of doing on opening day hardly matters when you are paying for 3-4 years of that player's service.

 

The reason I think whatever language has been tossed about on Napoli is based on his medical is because if that were not the case, the Sox would have told Napoli at the point of making the initial offer that we are going to want language in the contract that protects us for time lost if your preexisting condition becomes an issue during the contract period. We are talking about a hip here folks on a three deal. If Napoli's hip goes kiss at least one year if not more and in fact very likely more than one year goodbye.

 

Lets take it to an extreme just to make the point. Suppose Napoli walked out there on opening day...lost the hip and it cost the whole 3 years. Would we then be chastising the Sox for not trying to gain some leverage on a known condition? Why would losing 1.5 years be any different than losing all 3? You are still paying for services rendered over a period of time and not getting them. Is it any wonder that term is more important to players than per annum? You bet it is. When your contract is guaranteed over a term of years yet you only have to make a case for how prepared you are to play on opening day you better believe term will be more important to players than per annum.

 

Name me any rationally run business where an independent contractor only has to prove he is prepared to perform on the first day of the contract and then expects to be paid for the entire term of contract?

 

This ******** starts with the player. Nobody is forcing PED's down player's throats. Nobody is demanding that they retire or not retire due to injury. However with the kinds of money being tossed about these days and with the sparsity of tools available to teams to protect themselves this is sort of where we are and we likely will stay here until something is done hopefully in the next CBA.

 

The big market teams are more exposed at this point because they in the main sign the big money contracts. Go look at the Yankee boards and see how many people would like to slit ARoid's throat for having gotten that last big contract based on performance achieved while using PED's. Why.....because he is sucking away money to the LT cap that the Yanks would dearly love to have.

 

If we think the Sox are the lone wolf in this I would not expect that to be the case for long. There is just to much money corrupting the entire process and rules of conduct are simply not in place to deal with what happens when you are waving that much money in front of people.

[SoxSport]

They're getting paid to be above average regulars. $13 million doesn't go as far as it once did. Gomez is 27 and still in AAA, and Sands is old for AAA and mashed in the PCL, so take his numbers with a grain of salt. They signed Napoli, because they have no one else to play 1B. If he fails his physical, I hope they sign LaRoche.

 

That's for free agents--who are overpriced. They are signing too many of these guys--the result is they are right back to where they started capwise. If you don't blend in enough younger players with upside potential who are "protected", the result is where they are. $160+ million, and not a lot of quality to put them into contention.

[SoxSport]

You look at Napoli's spike year a couple of years ago, his injury-plagued year last year, and now his medical records showing a possible hip problem, and you start to wonder about steroids. Steroid use can result in leg/hip problems. Look at ARod. You pay the penalty, ultimately.

 

Maybe it's time to walk away from Napoli, and sign Swisher. He has more versatility, anyways, and is a feisty type of player they need. Trouble is he's going to cost more--in years and money. And they seem to have drawn a line in the sand at 3 years--which clearly won't do it. Maybe that's why they're talking about Ross. But Ross can't play 1B and there is really no room right now for him in the OF. Besides, they are close to the luxury cap right now, and have lost a lot of leverage unless they make some trades.

[SoxSport]

Whether the MLPA gets involved in the next contract talks concerning these damn physicals it isn't doing us a crapload of good right now. We need a first baseman,, we don't have one, we traded our best 1B prospect for a seasoned slugger only to trade him away. We have nothing over there and I mean with Mauro Gomez, we still have nothing. While we parry and play games with Napoli we risk both LaRoche and Swisher getting inked. Then what? Maybe Morse? Come on guys, the front office is on its way to clusterf***ing another deal as they have become so proficient at the past four seasons. Keep in mind that Napoli is still a free agent and could simply tell the Red Sox to stuff it and move on. I wonder then would there still be people here still defending and lauding our inept front office?

 

There may be steroid-related problems with Napoli, in which case they should just walk away. Amazing how GMs ignore the steroid factor when they are making big deals with players coming off spike years. We really don't know how steroids are viewed on the inside in baseball organizations. We do know they were tolerated for a long time, but the physical after-affects are just coming into play.

[BSN07]

At this point if they get him fine, if they don't it should make for an interesting 1B competition in ST.

[dupree]

I hope they get this deal with Napoli deal sooner rather tha later

This is a bad look for the red sox in signing FA in the future

 

Also i have seen on here people talking about moving Middlebrooks to 1B if this deal falls through with Napoli, can WMB play first?

[jacksonianmarch]

I hope they get this deal with Napoli deal sooner rather tha later

This is a bad look for the red sox in signing FA in the future

 

Also i have seen on here people talking about moving Middlebrooks to 1B if this deal falls through with Napoli, can WMB play first?

 

It's a lot easier to find a stopgap 1b than it is to get a stopgap 3B. If Bogaerts moved to 3b and he was big league ready, then it'd be an option, but for now WMB will be your 3b moving forward

[dupree]

Is it speculated that Bogaerts will be ready for the bigs next year?

[jacksonianmarch]

He'll be in AA this yr and is pretty young. He could be an option at midseason if he completely destroys AA, but the likelihood is that he'll be in AAA come the end of the season. The sox are still trying to turn him into their SS of the future, and he'll need a little more time to work on the defensive aspects if they want to keep him there. If they move him to 3b, he might move faster. I have a sneaking suspicion that they are pegging him to be in Boston's starting lineup come 2014, and unless they are in contention, probably not before that

[Dojji]

Sounds about right. We're talking about a guy who cannot legally drink alcohol yet. Plenty of time, and no real need to rush. It's not like we're contending this year.

[BSN07]

Ya I would think a lot would have to happen to see Bogaerts in Boston this season. He's have to tear up AA and the Sox would need some sort of motivation to stat his service time that early. I also think they will give him every chance to stick at SS.

[jung]

No wonder they expect him to fill out. He is already bigger than Jackie B and he must two years younger I would think.

[Dojji]

I hope they get this deal with Napoli deal sooner rather tha later

This is a bad look for the red sox in signing FA in the future

 

Also i have seen on here people talking about moving Middlebrooks to 1B if this deal falls through with Napoli, can WMB play first?

 

You're getting a bit too exotic. Most likely, if the Napoli trade falls through, it'll be a battle between Saltalamacchia, Mauro Gomez, and Jerry Sands. Frankly I'd be intrigued by what Salty and Sands could do at first base between them. Both of them have the talent in theory to get it done.

[jung]

I would not at all be surprised if the Sox tried to fill the 1st base spot internally if Napoli falls through.

[BSN07]

I would not at all be surprised if the Sox tried to fill the 1st base spot internally if Napoli falls through.

 

I think it's a better and more interesting option.

[seabeachfred]

There may be steroid-related problems with Napoli, in which case they should just walk away. Amazing how GMs ignore the steroid factor when they are making big deals with players coming off spike years. We really don't know how steroids are viewed on the inside in baseball organizations. We do know they were tolerated for a long time, but the physical after-affects are just coming into play.

 

Pretty new angle to take on this Sox Sport and perhaps you may be on to something considering the injuries Napoli has endured the past few seasons. His body may be breaking down? Maybe. Still that doesn't answer my basic question....IF THERE ARE RED FLAGS IN THIS AGREEMENT WHY AREN'T WE LOOKING ELSEWHERE FOR OUR FIRST BASEMAN? We wait too long and they will all be gone and I am not looking forward to seeing Mauro Gomez patrolling there next season.

[Behindenemylines]

Very little noise about Napoli and the issues. I think Napoli got hurt getting his physical and the FO doesn't know how to break the news to the Nation. If he has a potential long term problem, I think the Sox have to take a pass and move on.

[jung]

Well I don't know if it is better but it wil be interesting if they try to fill 1st base internally.

[Dojji]

It would give Lavs an opportunity at least. Salty at first, Sands backs up first and fills in in the outfield. Lavarnway and Ross split catching duties.

 

There's a lot to recommend this configuration.