Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

He has a good slider and fastball. The Boston media continues to sell the Rubby kid as something he isn't. If he was a starter, he'd be in the dodgers rotation already

People need to grasp at straws. They want to believe that we got some building blocks in the trade. I was just happy that they off-loaded more than a quarter of a billion in salaries. I don't care if any of those prospects ever play for the Sox. Peronally, I would have been even happier if LA took the remaining 11 million in salary and gave us nothing in return.

[Bellhorn04]

People need to grasp at straws. They want to believe that we got some building blocks in the trade. I was just happy that they off-loaded more than a quarter of a billion in salaries. I don't care if any of those prospects ever play for the Sox. Peronally, I would have been even happier if LA took the remaining 11 million in salary and gave us nothing in return.

 

11 million out of 271 million that will be spent (or maybe not spent) over a period of years is a pretty microscopic amount when you discount it to its present value. It's a speck of change that might stay in Henry/Lucchino's pockets anyway. I'd prefer the prospects.

 

Thanks for giving me something to argue about though.

[jacksonianmarch]

a700, they definitely got some building blocks. I think 3 of their players will be big leaguers long term for the sox. I see Webster in the middle of the rotation, De la Rosa in the pen, probably the back end, and Sands as a platoon guy in the OF. I just dont see an ace or a middle of the order bat coming back

[a700hitter]

11 million out of 271 million that will be spent (or maybe not spent) over a period of years is a pretty microscopic amount when you discount it to its present value. It's a speck of change that might stay in Henry/Lucchino's pockets anyway. I'd prefer the prospects.

 

Thanks for giving me something to argue about though.

Realistically, they had to get some talent in return. Otherwise, MLB would have killed the deal. If any of them amount to anything for the Sox at the MLB level, it will be gravy as far as I am concerned. The $11 million is too small to squawk about, and I am not complaining. I am

Just saying that ideally for me, the Dodgers would have taken all of the salary instead of giving us prospects, but that could never get the blessing of MLB.

[Behindenemylines]

The 11 million is spread out over a number of years and I think averages about 2 mil a season. If the money saved because of the trade is invested wisely I will be happy if only one of the prospects becomes a key piece of the rebuild. Everything I read about Webster is that his stuff is for real. De LaRosa is probably the wild card. If he is healthy he has a lively arm. Power arms are always a plus in my book. It like speed with an every day player, you can't teach someone to throw 96-98 mph.

[Brennan]

I'm sensing a re-occurring theme that us fans should abandon all hope for next year as well. Why am I getting this feeling?

[Bellhorn04]

I'm sensing a re-occurring theme that us fans should abandon all hope for next year as well. Why am I getting this feeling?

 

Because most people don't expect us to make any big acquisitions this offseason.

[Brennan]

I have hope for next season. What I hope for for the rest of this season is to get a good look at some of the kids, see more of the dead wood trimmed of of the team and of course enjoy the premature flame out of the skanks in the post season.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm sensing a re-occurring theme that us fans should abandon all hope for next year as well. Why am I getting this feeling?

 

Abandoning all hope is what you would have done if you kept the team together. I actually think it will be exciting at the Fens. Watch them develop some talent and see if something clicks. If I were Ben, I'd impose a rule on the franchise that no 5+ yr contracts for 2 yrs. After 2014, you'll have a better sense of who in your system you can count on and who you cannot. Then, you build around them with shrewd pickups and maybe one marquee FA/trade piece. The 2004 and 2007 Red Sox were not build overnight and Theo got f***ing lucky with the 2007 team in that he seemed to develop one centerpiece player per yr for a few yrs. Cherington and Lucchino have carried the baton of "discipline" since the deal. And discipline means sticking to a plan, even in the face of adversity. If they go out and sign Hamilton, they will show no discipline. If they pick up fringe guys with specific tools, use them to their strengths and blossom their minor league talent, then they will set themselves up for quite a run.

 

You guys must admit, that for sox fans, you were spoiled. This is the first yr since 2001 that you are out of it come September. 2006 may be an exception, but you were hit with some serious injuries in that season and had some serious underperformers in their prime. And this is also the first yr since 2001 that nobody really thought the sox would contend. That is 11 yrs of prosperity and 2 titles. The page is getting turned, it is time.

 

You can also look at my team for an example of how not to turn a page. We have players exiting their prime who are on the hook for huge money for many years. When our house of cards collapses, we're gonna be BAD

[rjortiz]

He has a good slider and fastball. The Boston media continues to sell the Rubby kid as something he isn't. If he was a starter, he'd be in the dodgers rotation already

 

He got hurt last year, but he was a solid pitcher for the Dodgers while he was up. The Red Sox could do a lot worse from a number five, but he'd be a high leverage reliever immediately.

[DocHolliday]

As much of a step in the right direction as the megatrade was a week ago, the week that followed is a clear sign that much work still remains to get this organization back in track.

[jung]

Right you are Doc.

 

The Megatrade might not be the beginning of the end. It may not even be the end of the beginning. But it might just be the beginning of the beginning. Apologies to Winston Churchill for messing around with his quote.

 

Dodgers lose again tonight....

[example1]

I'm sensing a re-occurring theme that us fans should abandon all hope for next year as well. Why am I getting this feeling?

 

1) The team is really bad right now.

 

2) The Red Sox, as a bad team, are in the same spot that the historically bad teams like the Pirates, Nationals and Padres sometimes stay for a long time.

 

The reality is that there are a lot of relatively good teams right now and many fewer who are simply not competing any time soon. Add to that the fact that the very worst teams have already rid themselves of any significantly big contracts and their best players.

 

Bad teams aren't "rebuilding" and the teams that were rebuilding are now competing. Yes, the Sox could overpay for some good pieces, but that might get them back where they were before.

------------------

 

In the random s*** department, would anyone give up a like Xander + for, say, Carlos Gonzalez? CarGo might be a better bet than Justin Upton, except he would be much harder to get. Is he untouchable? Seems like Colorado is equally stalled and hopeless, and they are one of the teams probably can't afford to have 'untouchable' players just yet. Could they get the Sox to overpay in talent?

[SoxSport]

Werner, the other Red Sox owner, who lives in Disneyworld, California, said in a WEEI interview, that Cherington had done a good job this year, but the FO needed a "few more evaluators." That's another way of saying the Front Office sucks, but Ben is our appointed boy and he stays. He also said V had done a good job, but had no comment on whether V would return--which means he won't be.

 

Part of the Red Sox problem this year is that V had zero support from Cherington and the Front Office, and hence never had the support of the holdover players. The only way to fix this team is to purge the management and start over again.

[SoxSport]

Because most people don't expect us to make any big acquisitions this offseason.

 

They have to give the prospects a chance, now that they have created some opportunities for them with holes in the roster. Thanks to the big deal, they even have a couple of pitching prospects who could make the rotation next year. But it takes time. You can't redo in one year what has been undone for the past several years.

 

What's more important is you have the right people to remake the team. I doubt they do, since much the same cast that created the problems is still around. They need another VP of team personnel to come in from the outside and take Epstein's old job. Cherington, by the way, is a notch lower--something the media has conveniently overlooked.

[Rdsxmbnt]

 

In the random s*** department, would anyone give up a like Xander + for, say, Carlos Gonzalez? CarGo might be a better bet than Justin Upton, except he would be much harder to get. Is he untouchable? Seems like Colorado is equally stalled and hopeless, and they are one of the teams probably can't afford to have 'untouchable' players just yet. Could they get the Sox to overpay in talent?

 

Definitely not:

 

Home OPS: 1.009

Road OPS: .736

 

He seems like a product of Coors Field

[Rdsxmbnt]

He has a good slider and fastball. The Boston media continues to sell the Rubby kid as something he isn't. If he was a starter, he'd be in the dodgers rotation already

 

He was before he got injured and was dam good in his 10 starts as a 22 year old. I definitely think he has a chance to make the rotation in Boston next year and I think they'll give him every chance to do so.

[SCM33]

Franklin Morales should be a shoe in for SP rotation.....

 

Felix Doubront, not at all....nothing but a mirage amongst s***** pitchers worse than him this year.

 

10-7 with the run support hes been given and a 5.03 ERA doesnt exactly scream top shelf prospect or shoe in for next years rotation. Lets stop making excuses and projections please.......Hes only thrown 130 innings, so I refuse to hear the "hes tired" nonsense as well.

 

If we want to be better next year, we need to get better. If he the best option for us moving forward?

[jung]

Felix had not been stretched out in the previous year due to injury. He was slated to have a short ceiling for innings right at the start of the season. So this should not be a surprise to anybody.

 

He may well end up with another shot next year anyway as I don't see the Sox resolving the rotation issues in one off season anyway. If he does he does. If he doesn't he doesn't. The Sox have a long way to go to be competitive again.

[SCM33]

Felix had not been stretched out in the previous year due to injury. He was slated to have a short ceiling for innings right at the start of the season. So this should not be a surprise to anybody.

 

He may well end up with another shot next year anyway as I don't see the Sox resolving the rotation issues in one off season anyway. If he does he does. If he doesn't he doesn't. The Sox have a long way to go to be competitive again.

 

Then shut him down.

 

Hes been awful, and hes ONLY at 130 innings. Its not like hes at the 150-160 range.

 

Morales has been stretched out quite a bit considering where he was to begin the year, he has fared just fine. In fact, he was doing great before they jerked him back and forth between the bullpen and the rotation.

[BornToRun]

Franklin Morales should be a shoe in for SP rotation.....

 

Felix Doubront, not at all....nothing but a mirage amongst s***** pitchers worse than him this year.

 

10-7 with the run support hes been given and a 5.03 ERA doesnt exactly scream top shelf prospect or shoe in for next years rotation. Lets stop making excuses and projections please.......Hes only thrown 130 innings, so I refuse to hear the "hes tired" nonsense as well.

 

If we want to be better next year, we need to get better. If he the best option for us moving forward?

 

He's a young lefty who throws hard and strikes guys out. You're goddamn right he's a solid option moving forward. The kid crapped out around the Allstar break and "tired" is a viable argument considering he's dealt with injuries in the past and this is his first extended stretch in the majors.

 

I don't think there's a person here aside from you who doesn't want Felix as a part of our future.

[Behindenemylines]

Good lefty starters are hard to come by. Both Morales (Now on DL) and Doubrount have hit the wall. The way they baby these pitchers in the minors it takes them 3 or 4 seasons in the majors to where they get to 200 innings in a season. Doubrount also had injuries when in the minors which adds to his slow development toward 200 innings. Based on the out look for next season I think both are in rotation.

[SoxSport]

Speier says it's time for V to go, and the overpitching of Aceves has been shameful:

 

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/09/02/valentines-day-time-red-sox-make-decision-mana

 

Why does Cherington get so much love from owners like Werner? He is not only tied to Epstein's failed policies, he has had a mediocre year in his own right, and his lack of support for Valentine has undermined the manager with the players and some of the coaches.The result is Valentine is showing signs of severe stress--with the way he has mishandled Aceves--and other things. He looks like he is waiting to be fired, so he can collect his 2nd year pay for free.

 

The Red Sox will never improve until the owners recognize what the problems are and take steps to correct them. Simply removing Tito and Epstein clearly did not do that. Bringing in a manager with no FO support was a disaster. It's time to clean house--or sell.

[iortiz]

Only Lester and Buch should be in our rotation next year as #3 and #4 respectively. Unfortunately Lackey will be your #5. Use Morales and Felix as depth. You still need a solid #1 and #2 and a BP to build.

 

Again (#23293029302), if we do not build a solid rotation with at least one true ace (#1) and another very good SP (#2), this team will fail for 5th year in a row.

[Elktonnick]

Speier says it's time for V to go, and the overpitching of Aceves has been shameful:

 

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/09/02/valentines-day-time-red-sox-make-decision-mana

 

Why does Cherington get so much love from owners like Werner? He is not only tied to Epstein's failed policies, he has had a mediocre year in his own right, and his lack of support for Valentine has undermined the manager with the players and some of the coaches.The result is Valentine is showing signs of severe stress--with the way he has mishandled Aceves--and other things. He looks like he is waiting to be fired, so he can collect his 2nd year pay for free.

 

The Red Sox will never improve until the owners recognize what the problems are and take steps to correct them. Simply removing Tito and Epstein clearly did not do that. Bringing in a manager with no FO support was a disaster. It's time to clean house--or sell.

 

 

There is growing speculation that Henry is positioning the club for sale, something I have believed for sometime. Nevertheless, I can't understand the FO's support for Cherrington. BV is toast. Clearly he has checked out emotionally as well as mentally from Boston. The FO though should consider bringing an experienced FO executive to be chief of baseball operations. Let this new Chief Baseball Operations exec pick a manager.

 

There are many who are lobbying for John Farrell's return. I just don't see it for two reasons. First, why would Farrell want to leave Toronto for the Boston zoo. Second, Farrell is part of the ancien regime. It is time to move on with both a new approach and the people to carry it out.

[a700hitter]

There is growing speculation that Henry is positioning the club for sale, something I have believed for sometime. Nevertheless, I can't understand the FO's support for Cherrington. BV is toast. Clearly he has checked out emotionally as well as mentally from Boston. The FO though should consider bringing an experienced FO executive to be chief of baseball operations. Let this new Chief Baseball Operations exec pick a manager.

 

There are many who are lobbying for John Farrell's return. I just don't see it for two reasons. First, why would Farrell want to leave Toronto for the Boston zoo. Second, Farrell is part of the ancien regime. It is time to move on with both a new approach and the people to carry it out.

Bobby V is just going through the motions at this point. I think they are supporting Cherington, because he is an obedient puppy.

[iortiz]

Bobby V is just going through the motions at this point. I think they are supporting Cherington, because he is an obedient puppy.

 

[Brennan]

Only Lester and Buch should be in our rotation next year as #3 and #4 respectively. Unfortunately Lackey will be your #5. Use Morales and Felix as depth. You still need a solid #1 and #2 and a BP to build.

 

Again (#23293029302), if we do not build a solid rotation with at least one true ace (#1) and another very good SP (#2), this team will fail for 5th year in a row.

 

 

 

I strongly agree with this. Too many people think we are one pitcher away from competing. What's worse is the mentality that we can re arrange the junk in the junkyard, add a big dollar, big bat used to be and we are there.

 

You can't polish a turd.

[a700hitter]

I strongly agree with this. Too many people think we are one pitcher away from competing. What's worse is the mentality that we can re arrange the junk in the junkyard, add a big dollar, big bat used to be and we are there.

 

You can't polish a turd.

You guys are right on the money with this. I can see that there will be lots of arguments this off season that the pitching will be improved with 1 acquisition and some rearranging of the junk. That ain't gonna work. I'll state it up front before the 2012 season ends. Let people call me nuts and argue with me, and when I am proved right, people will make their insulting remarks. Please someone sig this so it will be out there all off season and during the 2013 season. The Sox will have no shot at winning their Division in 2013 if they only acquire 1 starting pitcher in the off season, regardless of who that pitcher is.

[Elktonnick]

Bobby V is just going through the motions at this point. I think they are supporting Cherington, because he is an obedient puppy.

 

The problem is the puppy still leaves puddles throughout the house.