Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

Rethinking and at this point, 2 Mark Buehrles is all I ask Ben for our rotation. 2.

[a700hitter]

Rethinking and at this point, 2 Mark Buehrles is all I ask Ben for our rotation. 2.

Hopefully we will not have to settle for an Aaron Cook and Padilla.

[redsoxfan3]

Hunter expressed interest in coming to Boston, especially since he was a friend of David Ortiz. I am not saying he would have chosen us over Detroit, but we did not even make him a contract offer. We could easily afford 2/26 for him. It is not a long-term commitment. It just blows my mind. You have to start to question where Ben Cherington's head is at. We lose out on him and the OF market is not all that deep. We cannot sit and wait all offseason. We need to at least make offers. OF is the biggest need we have right under SP.

[BSN07]

I'm not saying Toronto didn't improve on paper, they obviously did. Now they need a manager to run this group and hope it gels this season or next. It's a lot to ask, and these type of moves rarely work out.

 

I'm really just trying to keep people from jumping off the ledge already. I've seen people handing them the division already, they still need to leap frog 3 teams for that. And the off season has just begun, there's no telling what the other teams could look like next March.

 

I also think there is enough long term risk in this package that it was smart for the Sox to pass. It would have been a gamble with a decent shot at getting them put right back in the s***** situation they were in before.

 

Also Hunter just signed with Detroit, he would have been a great addition in Boston, but I'm sure he wants to contend for a WS ring and that's something the Red Sox aren't in a position to guarantee right now. Detroit made added a solid piece to a title contender.

[BSN07]

Hunter expressed interest in coming to Boston, especially since he was a friend of David Ortiz. I am not saying he would have chosen us over Detroit, but we did not even make him a contract offer. We could easily afford 2/26 for him. It is not a long-term commitment. It just blows my mind. You have to start to question where Ben Cherington's head is at. We lose out on him and the OF market is not all that deep. We cannot sit and wait all offseason. We need to at least make offers. OF is the biggest need we have right under SP.

 

Even if they had offered him a similar contract, why the hell would Hunter chose Boston over Detroit for the next couple years as he attempts to win a ring before he retires?

 

He signed early and with a title contender, where he was rumored recently to want to play for. Do you even know if the Red Sox were given an opportunity to counter? Just because Ben and company didn't get player X, does not automatically make it their fault. That thought process is ridiculous.

[redsoxfan3]

Even if they had offered him a similar contract, why the hell would Hunter chose Boston over Detroit for the next couple years as he attempts to win a ring before he retires?

 

He signed early and with a title contender, where he was rumored recently to want to play for. Do you even know if the Red Sox were given an opportunity to counter? Just because Ben and company didn't get player X, does not automatically make it their fault. That thought process is ridiculous.

 

That is not the point. Hunter has publicly stated that he is interested in Boston, and I also said that I do not think he would have picked Boston over Detroit. It was clearly known that Hunter was going to make a decision pretty quickly. How can the Red Sox be given an opportunity to counter when they never made an offer in the first place? That is my point. It blows my mind why they did not even make an initial offer. All I want to see is the effort being made to attempt to sign guys that will help out this team. Hunter only wanted a two year contract, and that is the exact contract that this team needs. There is no long-term commitment.

 

I am completely aware that the decision has to be mutual. Hunter may not have signed here if we had made an offer, but how can he even sign here if we did not make him an offer? Unless I am missing something that the FO was not interested in Hunter, I do not really understand why the FO did not make an offer. I do blame the FO in this situation, because it was reported that the Red Sox never made him a contract offer.

 

Joe McDonald ‏@ESPNJoeyMac

While Red Sox had preliminary talks with Hunter, baseball source says club never made an offer. #redsox

[Spitball]

C'mon man, Buehrle is a very nice pitcher. At this point if he were with us and as the rotation is right now he would be our #1 as simple as that.

 

Buehrle has always been a soft tosser but never as soft as he tosses now. His last two years in the AL saw his k/9 rate drop below 5 per 9. He predictably did better last year in the NL, but the AL East is tough on soft tossers.

 

Burhle has relied on control and location for years. He has also relied on mid-80s in the AL. When he starts to lose mph from mid 80s, the team that owns that contract will be in trouble.

 

Btw, I am on the road trying to type on my phone.

[rjortiz]

I'm not saying Toronto didn't improve on paper, they obviously did. Now they need a manager to run this group and hope it gels this season or next. It's a lot to ask, and these type of moves rarely work out.

 

I'm really just trying to keep people from jumping off the ledge already. I've seen people handing them the division already, they still need to leap frog 3 teams for that. And the off season has just begun, there's no telling what the other teams could look like next March.

 

I also think there is enough long term risk in this package that it was smart for the Sox to pass. It would have been a gamble with a decent shot at getting them put right back in the s***** situation they were in before.

 

Also Hunter just signed with Detroit, he would have been a great addition in Boston, but I'm sure he wants to contend for a WS ring and that's something the Red Sox aren't in a position to guarantee right now. Detroit made added a solid piece to a title contender.

 

What do you mean, "these moves rarely work out?" They just added two front of the rotation pitchers, and a star SS.

[jung]

I am not sure I hate any Red Sox player or system guy enough to send him off to Loria and the Marlins. I suppose it is OK to take advantage of the situation down there as long as you can take a long hot shower after any meeting with Loria.

 

The guy appears to be a snake of epic proportions. I think I agree with those thinking that MLB needs to pull an LA Dodgers here and run Loria out of baseball before he does something that we all regret like forever. Maybe he already has in the way he managed to get that stadium built and the way he whipsaws his player payroll up and down....up when he needs to try to convince the world that he is "serious" about building a team and a fan following and back down again when he cuts the knees out from under everybody stupid enough to have believed in him so he can take a bunch of cash off the table.

[iortiz]

Hunter expressed interest in coming to Boston, especially since he was a friend of David Ortiz. I am not saying he would have chosen us over Detroit, but we did not even make him a contract offer. We could easily afford 2/26 for him. It is not a long-term commitment. It just blows my mind. You have to start to question where Ben Cherington's head is at. We lose out on him and the OF market is not all that deep. We cannot sit and wait all offseason. We need to at least make offers. OF is the biggest need we have right under SP.

 

This

[iortiz]

Hopefully we will not have to settle for an Aaron Cook and Padilla.

 

[Orange Juiced]

That is not the point. Hunter has publicly stated that he is interested in Boston, and I also said that I do not think he would have picked Boston over Detroit. It was clearly known that Hunter was going to make a decision pretty quickly. How can the Red Sox be given an opportunity to counter when they never made an offer in the first place? That is my point. It blows my mind why they did not even make an initial offer. All I want to see is the effort being made to attempt to sign guys that will help out this team. Hunter only wanted a two year contract, and that is the exact contract that this team needs. There is no long-term commitment.

 

I am completely aware that the decision has to be mutual. Hunter may not have signed here if we had made an offer, but how can he even sign here if we did not make him an offer? Unless I am missing something that the FO was not interested in Hunter, I do not really understand why the FO did not make an offer. I do blame the FO in this situation, because it was reported that the Red Sox never made him a contract offer.

 

If Torii Hunter is going to get 2/26, what in the world is BJ Upton going to get?

[reYoukilis]

When I Google Red Sox it seems all the talk is about non pitchers. Isnt pitching a priority? What about Greinke?

[iortiz]

When I Google Red Sox it seems all the talk is about non pitchers. Isnt pitching a priority? What about Greinke?

 

Well, seems that everybody knows that... problem is that our great FO is occupied in bringing managers and irrelevant players like 2nd-tier catchers.

[a700hitter]

Well, seems that everybody knows that... problem is that our great FO is occupied in bringing managers and irrelevant players like 2nd-tier catchers.

He is zeroing in on a first base coach. The skill set for a first base coach is very critical to a team's success. He needs to be able to hold batting gloves, various types of body armor like shin guards, elbow pads etc. while still being able to work a stop watch! This is a rare breed.

[jung]

I don't think 2/$26 is that much of an overpay for a Hunter. As I have said here I think teams will opt to pay a bit more money per annum in order to cut the number of years they are committed to players.

 

Heck the sox paid 2/$26 for a guy that will only DH with PR value. Hunter is not the hitter that Ortiz is but he is one heck of a good hitter and not a bad fielder at all.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hearing the Marlins wanted Middlebrooks and Bogaerts for Reyes and Josh Johnson.

 

I apologize for jumping on Cherrington for not striking on that deal.

 

Edit: Doubront, too! Red Sox would have had to give up WMB, Bogaerts, and Doubront plus some for the Marlins deal. Not sure if that includes Buehrle/Buck/Bonifacio.

 

[a700hitter]

Hearing the Marlins wanted Middlebrooks and Bogaerts for Reyes and Josh Johnson.

 

I apologize for jumping on Cherrington for not striking on that deal.

I don't buy those stories after the fact. The Jays didn't give up anything close to that haul.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't buy those stories after the fact. The Jays didn't give up anything close to that haul.

 

Can't just pick and choose reports you believe. Gammons is almost always spot on with his information.

[a700hitter]

Can't just pick and choose reports you believe. Gammons is almost always spot on with his information.

Like he was spot on about Cano getting busted for PEDs? I don't doubt that someone in the Red Sox FO fed him the info. I question whether it was true. Teams lie about that stuff all the time. I don't believe it, because the Jays settled for much less for a bigger trade. No excuses for Cherries. He needs to get deals done. I'm not interested in why they fell thru.

[SoxSport]

Yup.

 

And they got Bonifacio too.... Probably one of the most underrated players in the MLB.

 

Unless Ben makes something... we will finish in the last place... again!

 

You look at Ben's personality, and you see a guy who hesitates, deliberates, gets beat to the punch compared to more aggressive GMs like Dombrowski and the Toronto GM.

Ben is attending conferences while not doing his job trying to close a deal with Miami--and the Toronto guy swoops in and steals the show.

 

This talk about Miami wanting front line Red Sox players in a deal, while accepting mid-level prospects from Toronto, strikes me as PR to save face. I don't believe it.

 

The other aspect of this is whether Henry is in a position to take on any more mega-contracts. I doubt it. Let's see what happens. I would be surprised if they sign anybody for more than 2-3 years and more than $10 mil per year.

 

The Red Sox competence as an organization has been tested the past few years. Clearly they have problems which go way beyond Bobby Valentine. In fact, the Bobby V hiring and ramifications may have been symptomatic of problems that still exist.

[iortiz]

I don't buy those stories after the fact. The Jays didn't give up anything close to that haul.

 

Yup, but real problem is not that... real problem is that Ben is paid to make things happen, and has not done the job (since last offseason)...ain't finish, but this is going to be up hill battle to build this team... a lot of holes to fill and he has not filled any and the market is getting complicated and expensive.

[redsoxfan3]

If Torii Hunter is going to get 2/26, what in the world is BJ Upton going to get?

 

The thing you have to think about is AAV. On a short-term contract and with a thin OF market, teams are probably going to increase AAV a little bit for a short term deal because the competition is tougher. For B.J. Upton, he might get a ridiculous contract, but in a longer-term deal, I am not so sure a team would be as willing to have as high of an AAV. That is just my theory, but you never know if a team decides to overpay him.

 

When I Google Red Sox it seems all the talk is about non pitchers. Isnt pitching a priority? What about Greinke?

 

That is true. Most of the recent reports have been linked to Hunter or Napoli. I am sure we are talking to pitchers, but the media is just talking about position players. Greinke has kind of went under the radar in the last week and so has starting pitching in general. We will definitely start to hear more and more about it as we get deeper into the offseason and closer to winter meetings. To answer your question about Greinke, I do not see him as a fit in Boston. He is probably the most talented FA SP, but his anxiety would probably be a huge concern in Boston. I don't think he has the mental toughness to pitch here.

 

I don't think 2/$26 is that much of an overpay for a Hunter. As I have said here I think teams will opt to pay a bit more money per annum in order to cut the number of years they are committed to players.

 

Heck the sox paid 2/$26 for a guy that will only DH with PR value. Hunter is not the hitter that Ortiz is but he is one heck of a good hitter and not a bad fielder at all.

 

I agree with this completely. That is very true. We have flexibility financially this offseason. We can afford to pay guys a higher AAV for a shorter contract.

 

Hearing the Marlins wanted Middlebrooks and Bogaerts for Reyes and Josh Johnson.

 

I apologize for jumping on Cherrington for not striking on that deal.

 

This is true. Bogaerts should be untouchable unless a guy like Trout or Stanton is involved, which it's highly unlikely either of those two are going anywhere.

[jung]

Not sure how to value the guys the Blue Jays sent the other way. Look like high level single A guys I think but I could be wrong.

 

If that is true then the Sox would likely have not had to send anybody from the system we really talk about here south to the Marlins. Maybe the Sox balked on Reyes while the Jays were willing to take him.

[iortiz]

You look at Ben's personality, and you see a guy who hesitates, deliberates, gets beat to the punch compared to more aggressive GMs like Dombrowski and the Toronto GM.

Ben is attending conferences while not doing his job trying to close a deal with Miami--and the Toronto guy swoops in and steals the show.

 

This talk about Miami wanting front line Red Sox players in a deal, while accepting mid-level prospects from Toronto, strikes me as PR to save face. I don't believe it.

 

The other aspect of this is whether Henry is in a position to take on any more mega-contracts. I doubt it. Let's see what happens. I would be surprised if they sign anybody for more than 2-3 years and more than $10 mil per year.

 

The Red Sox competence as an organization has been tested the past few years. Clearly they have problems which go way beyond Bobby Valentine. In fact, the Bobby V hiring and ramifications may have been symptomatic of problems that still exist.

 

My first petition was to rebuild the FO, getting rid of BC and LL. . Bringing a guy like Friedman, we could have started all over again, for real. Didn't happen. The cancer still there. Hopefully I'm wrong SS.

[Bellhorn04]

Two of the prospects the Jays sent to the Marlins were in their top 5 prospects.

[iortiz]

Two of the prospects the Jays sent to the Marlins were in their top 5 prospects.

 

A pack of JJ, Buehrle, Reyes and Bonifacio would cost any team top prospects... you bet. I wouldn't ask less, would you?

[Bellhorn04]

A pack of JJ, Buehrle, Reyes and Bonifacio would cost any team top prospects... you bet. I wouldn't ask less, would you?

 

No, absolutely not. I don't think it's implausible that the Marlins were asking for a big haul of prospects from anyone interested in this deal.

[jung]

I would always more willingly give up guys that are three and four years away from the ML roster even if they are high on the prospect list as opposed to guys that are a year away. High on the prospect list and three or four years away is not all that impressive. Much can happen to a kid in three or four years.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I would always more willingly give up guys that are three and four years away from the ML roster even if they are high on the prospect list as opposed to guys that are a year away. High on the prospect list and three or four years away is not all that impressive. Much can happen to a kid in three or four years.

 

Who are you referring to here? Cecchini/Swihart/Owens?

 

Or is it just a general statement?