Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[SCM33]

So you don't like my plan. What is your plan?

 

Sign Mike Napoli.

Sign Nick Swisher/Josh Hamilton.

Sign Alex Gonzalez.

Resign Cody Ross

Sign Jason Bay as a spring training invite.

Trade Felix Doubront, Jose Iglesias, Salty, Ryan Kalish and another add-in for Matt Garza and James Russell.

 

C: David Ross/Ryan Lavarnway

1B: Mike Napoli

2B: Dustin Pedroia

3B. Will Middlebrooks

SS: Alex Gonzalez

LF: Nick Swisher/Jason Bay

CF: Jacoby Ellsbury

RF: Josh Hamilton/Nick Swisher

DH: David Ortiz

 

SP: Jon Lester

SP: Clay Buccholz

SP: Matt Garza

SP: Franklin Morales

SP: John Lackey

 

CP: Andrew Bailey

BP: Daniel Bard

BP: James Russell

BP: Alfredo Aceves

BP: Junichi Tazawa

BP: Andrew Miller

 

Bench: Ross/Lavarnway

Bench: Pedro Ciriaco

Bench: Jason Bay

Bench: Mauro Gomez

Bench: 4th/5th OF

[example1]

Get 2 solid starters. Pick up a RH Ofer or resign Ross. get a guy to platoon at first with Gomez. I could live with Loney. Get a strong bullpen arm capable of closing if Bailey goes down. That would be a respectable team IMO. It wouldn't break the bank or mortgage the future.

 

I'd say that's pretty reasonable a700.

 

I wouldn't be upset if they went after Hamilton to play LF for a 3-4 year contract. It's the years that are absolutely crucial IMO. I think they should think really seriously about Kalish in RF if he looks good in spring training. Add Napoli and maybe Kuroda and I'd be pretty happy. No prospects dealt, shortish contracts everywhere.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Hamilton

Ortiz

Napoli

Middlebrooks

Lavarnway

Kalish

Iglesias

 

Lester

Kuroda

Buchholz

Doubront

Lackey

 

Or something along those lines... that team looks competitive to me. Not sure what the total bill would be, but it doesn't seem prohibitive.

[iortiz]

Sign Mike Napoli.

Sign Nick Swisher/Josh Hamilton.

Sign Alex Gonzalez.

Resign Cody Ross

Sign Jason Bay as a spring training invite.

Trade Felix Doubront, Jose Iglesias, Salty, Ryan Kalish and another add-in for Matt Garza and James Russell.

 

C: David Ross/Ryan Lavarnway

1B: Mike Napoli

2B: Dustin Pedroia

3B. Will Middlebrooks

SS: Alex Gonzalez

LF: Nick Swisher/Jason Bay

CF: Jacoby Ellsbury

RF: Josh Hamilton/Nick Swisher

DH: David Ortiz

 

SP: Jon Lester

SP: Clay Buccholz

SP: Matt Garza

SP: Franklin Morales

SP: John Lackey

 

CP: Andrew Bailey

BP: Daniel Bard

BP: James Russell

BP: Alfredo Aceves

BP: Junichi Tazawa

BP: Andrew Miller

 

Bench: Ross/Lavarnway

Bench: Pedro Ciriaco

Bench: Jason Bay

Bench: Mauro Gomez

Bench: 4th/5th OF

 

Like this.

 

I only would add another SP. Palodios put Jeremy Guthrie and Shaun Marcum on the table. Sanchez and Greinke are other options, but all depends on what they want. Still options out there.

 

I truly believe that a team like this could contend for at least a WC.

 

Hopefully our FO put something like this.

[TutGadol]

Sign Mike Napoli.

Sign Nick Swisher/Josh Hamilton.

Sign Alex Gonzalez.

Resign Cody Ross

Sign Jason Bay as a spring training invite.

Trade Felix Doubront, Jose Iglesias, Salty, Ryan Kalish and another add-in for Matt Garza and James Russell.

 

C: David Ross/Ryan Lavarnway

1B: Mike Napoli

2B: Dustin Pedroia

3B. Will Middlebrooks

SS: Alex Gonzalez

LF: Nick Swisher/Jason Bay

CF: Jacoby Ellsbury

RF: Josh Hamilton/Nick Swisher

DH: David Ortiz

 

SP: Jon Lester

SP: Clay Buccholz

SP: Matt Garza

SP: Franklin Morales

SP: John Lackey

 

CP: Andrew Bailey

BP: Daniel Bard

BP: James Russell

BP: Alfredo Aceves

BP: Junichi Tazawa

BP: Andrew Miller

 

Bench: Ross/Lavarnway

Bench: Pedro Ciriaco

Bench: Jason Bay

Bench: Mauro Gomez

Bench: 4th/5th OF

 

Where do you put Cody Ross? Am I the only one here who thinks we should rebuild instead of going for the big FAs again? It seemed like during the season everybody was about selling and developing the farm, but all of the sudden I see all these posts about signing Swisher / Hamilton and trading our young guns. I don't know what to make of this.

 

Also, I think Morales and Doubront work well together cause each of them has about a good half a season as a starter and they could split the long relief role for the rest of the season.

[mvp 78]

Am I the only one here who thinks we should rebuild instead of going for the big FAs again?.

 

No, there are a few of us left. I'd rather let the prospects compete for MLB jobs than keep them behind bloated contracts for 3 years. I think SS and at least one corner OF spot should be open competition during ST. I'm fine with them going the FA route for 1b and the other corner OF spot if it's for short term deals. With DRoss signed, Lavs needs to play a ton and Salty needs to go.

[a700hitter]

Sign Mike Napoli.

Sign Nick Swisher/Josh Hamilton.

Sign Alex Gonzalez.

Resign Cody Ross

Sign Jason Bay as a spring training invite.

Trade Felix Doubront, Jose Iglesias, Salty, Ryan Kalish and another add-in for Matt Garza and James Russell.

 

C: David Ross/Ryan Lavarnway

1B: Mike Napoli

2B: Dustin Pedroia

3B. Will Middlebrooks

SS: Alex Gonzalez

LF: Nick Swisher/Jason Bay

CF: Jacoby Ellsbury

RF: Josh Hamilton/Nick Swisher

DH: David Ortiz

 

SP: Jon Lester

SP: Clay Buccholz

SP: Matt Garza

SP: Franklin Morales

SP: John Lackey

 

CP: Andrew Bailey

BP: Daniel Bard

BP: James Russell

BP: Alfredo Aceves

BP: Junichi Tazawa

BP: Andrew Miller

 

Bench: Ross/Lavarnway

Bench: Pedro Ciriaco

Bench: Jason Bay

Bench: Mauro Gomez

Bench: 4th/5th OF

Your plan is more aggressive on the offense side. Mine is more aggressive on the pitching side. I think that my approach is less costly. Either way, the 2013 team would be respectable, so I don't think either of us is being negative.

[a700hitter]

I'd say that's pretty reasonable a700.

 

I wouldn't be upset if they went after Hamilton to play LF for a 3-4 year contract. It's the years that are absolutely crucial IMO. I think they should think really seriously about Kalish in RF if he looks good in spring training. Add Napoli and maybe Kuroda and I'd be pretty happy. No prospects dealt, shortish contracts everywhere.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Hamilton

Ortiz

Napoli

Middlebrooks

Lavarnway

Kalish

Iglesias

 

Lester

Kuroda

Buchholz

Doubront

Lackey

 

Or something along those lines... that team looks competitive to me. Not sure what the total bill would be, but it doesn't seem prohibitive.

That would be a very respectable 2013 team. That's all I am looking for-- moving away from the utter failure that we have witnessed since September 2011. We have to see what they will do.

[a700hitter]

Like this.

 

I only would add another SP. Palodios put Jeremy Guthrie and Shaun Marcum on the table. Sanchez and Greinke are other options, but all depends on what they want. Still options out there.

 

I truly believe that a team like this could contend for at least a WC.

 

Hopefully our FO put something like this.

I agree with you. I would concentrate on fixing the pitching since that was the roots of the 2012 failure. Two starters and a reliever would put this team back on track.

[a700hitter]

I'd say that's pretty reasonable a700.

 

That can happen when you actually read my posts without applying your own filter to my words to skew my meaning which leads you to dispute matters that are not being contended.

 

[SoxSport]

I don't know if the Red Sox organization is capable of doing all those ambitious things covered in these previous posts. I mean, you look at passive Ben, and you can't see him doing all this stuff. Maybe he'll get some prodding from Henry and Lucchino, maybe James and some of the others in the FO will be a factor, but Ben doesn't strike me as being a very aggressive, out-front guy. More a cautious-type guy who gets the leftovers. I hope the Toronto-Miami dump isn't a bad omen--and the Sox become bridesmaids with every free agent out there. Just missing, or waiting too long to get the bargain. I'm waiting for Ben to prove me wrong.

[Laser Show]

I was just reading that Cherington expects the Sox to be among the highest payrolls in 2013. I think he's got a few deals he's working on that are going to blow us away.

 

I'd love to see Greinke signed along with a trade for Choo and Masterson.

Sign Napoli as 1B/C

Trade Ellsbury + a prospect or 2 for Andrus

Trade Salty away and let Lavs/Ross/Napoli split catching duties

Try to bolster the pen

 

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8635216/boston-red-sox-gm-team-one-larger-payrolls

[a700hitter]

I was just reading that Cherington expects the Sox to be among the highest payrolls in 2013. I think he's got a few deals he's working on that are going to blow us away.

 

I'd love to see Greinke signed along with a trade for Choo and Masterson.

Sign Napoli as 1B/C

Trade Ellsbury + a prospect or 2 for Andrus

Trade Salty away and let Lavs/Ross/Napoli split catching duties

Try to bolster the pen

 

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8635216/boston-red-sox-gm-team-one-larger-payrolls

And they will happen before tickets go on sale on December 1st.

[BSN07]

I'd say that's pretty reasonable a700.

 

I wouldn't be upset if they went after Hamilton to play LF for a 3-4 year contract. It's the years that are absolutely crucial IMO. I think they should think really seriously about Kalish in RF if he looks good in spring training. Add Napoli and maybe Kuroda and I'd be pretty happy. No prospects dealt, shortish contracts everywhere.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Hamilton

Ortiz

Napoli

Middlebrooks

Lavarnway

Kalish

Iglesias

 

Lester

Kuroda

Buchholz

Doubront

Lackey

 

Or something along those lines... that team looks competitive to me. Not sure what the total bill would be, but it doesn't seem prohibitive.

 

That's a reasonable plan for a competitive team. My only concern is who is the SP depth behind the first 5? There needs to be depth there with some of the starting rotation guys having injury history.

[jung]

Well I just don't think the Jays Miami deal is even a fair test. That is a monster gamble. Fun to talk about but if you had your druthers you would have cut Johnson out of that herd and forgotten the rest. Reyes is another poison pill contract much like the ones we just got rid off. Buerlie has been on the slide and now has to pitch in the AL East.

 

Even though Johnson is the prize, how is it more than a 50-50 shot which way he is going to go. I just don't think the Sox were in a good position to risk going from the frying pan to the fire.

 

I think they would have found a way to get the two arms but likely balked on Reyes. Who knows how much thought or time Henry can even allocate to this stuff given circumstances and this is yet another deal that at its scale would have had Henry involved very early mainly because of Reyes.

 

I do think the Sox FO is somewhat hampered both from within and without but should get enough done to at least compete for a WC this year. I don't see Hamilton happening though.

[a700hitter]

Well I just don't think the Jays Miami deal is even a fair test. That is a monster gamble. Fun to talk about but if you had your druthers you would have cut Johnson out of that herd and forgotten the rest. Reyes is another poison pill contract much like the ones we just got rid off. Buerlie has been on the slide and now has to pitch in the AL East.

 

Even though Johnson is the prize, how is it more than a 50-50 shot which way he is going to go. I just don't think the Sox were in a good position to risk going from the frying pan to the fire.

 

I think they would have found a way to get the two arms but likely balked on Reyes. Who knows how much thought or time Henry can even allocate to this stuff given circumstances and this is yet another deal that at its scale would have had Henry involved very early mainly because of Reyes.

 

I do think the Sox FO is somewhat hampered both from within and without but should get enough done to at least compete for a WC this year. I don't see Hamilton happening though.

Wait until you see Reyes play 20 times a year. I'd take him on my team any time.

[jung]

I did not say Reyes is a poison player. I said it was a poison pill contract. That is another ridiculous contract and I just don't think the Sox are ready for more ridiculous contracts especially for a SS.

[a700hitter]

I did not say Reyes is a poison player. I said it was a poison pill contract. That is another ridiculous contract and I just don't think the Sox are ready for more ridiculous contracts especially for a SS.

The contract is not close to as bad as Crawford's and because Reyes plays a premium position there will always be a much better trade market for him than Crawford.

[BSN07]

Wait until you see Reyes play 20 times a year. I'd take him on my team any time.

 

He's a talented ball player with an injury history worse then Crawford. No thanks.

 

You don't give 20M a year to speedy ball players in their 30's IMO. It's not a smart baseball move. You especially don't give $ and prospects for players like that.

 

If they are going to invest that amount of resources into acquiring a player, I would hope it would be a higher caliber player then Reyes.

 

IMO the future of the Red Sox at SS is Igleasias or Bogaerts.

[BSN07]

The contract is not close to as bad as Crawford's and because Reyes plays a premium position there will always be a much better trade market for him than Crawford.

 

You think teams are going to be interested in a 35+ year old SS at 22M a season? You do know how back loaded his wacky ass contract is right? Just incase you don't know,

 

13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15:$22M, 16:$22M, 17:$22M, 18:$22M club option ($4M buyout).

 

And how many guys continue playing at a premium level at a premium position into the mid to late 30's? No one will be interested in the guy after 2015.

[jung]

The contract is not close to as bad as Crawford's and because Reyes plays a premium position there will always be a much better trade market for him than Crawford.

 

That is certainly true but an unfair comparison....Crawford's might be the worse contract of all time...easily vying with Arods stupid deal cut with Yankee ownership.

 

The high side of the Reyes contract is that it is back end loaded. You can take him as part of a peak effort to make a run at a championship...which is what the Jays are doing and if he plays well, dump the back-ended money onto somebody else trying to do the same thing in a trade if you want to do that. However I don't find paying $22M a year for Reyes appealing and those $$ are right around the corner. This is the same guy that just finished the 2012 season. Did that look like a $22M player? Heck I am not even talking about him being an aging speed guy that has trouble staying healthy.

[a700hitter]

He's a talented ball player with an injury history worse then Crawford. No thanks.

 

You don't give 20M a year to speedy ball players in their 30's IMO. It's not a smart baseball move. You especially don't give $ and prospects for players like that.

 

If they are going to invest that amount of resources into acquiring a player, I would hope it would be a higher caliber player then Reyes.

 

IMO the future of the Red Sox at SS is Igleasias or Bogaerts.

The more salary you take on the lesser prospects you give up. Except for one badly injury marred year, he has averaged 150 games/yr since he has been a starting SS. He hasn't been on the operating table yet. He is not Edgar Renteria. You need to see this guy play on a daily basis.

[BSN07]

That is certainly true but an unfair comparison....Crawford's might be the worse contract of all time...easily vying with Arods stupid deal cut with Yankee ownership.

 

The high side of the Reyes contract is that it is back end loaded. You can take him as part of a peak effort to make a run at a championship...which is what the Jays are doing and if he plays well, dump the back-ended money onto somebody else trying to do the same thing in a trade if you want to do that. However I don't find paying $22M a year for Reyes appealing and those $$ are right around the corner. This is the same guy that just finished the 2012 season. Did that look like a $22M player?

 

So the plan is to bank on someone taking a 35 year old SS making 22M a year for 3 seasons, with an option for another 22M with a 4.5m buy out? Brilliant.

 

Reyes is easily a top 10 worst contracts in the league.

[a700hitter]

So the plan is to bank on someone taking a 35 year old SS making 22M a year for 3 seasons, with an option for another 22M with a 4.5m buy out? Brilliant.

 

Reyes is easily a top 10 worst contracts in the league.

I never said that. Those are your words. A shortstop wasn't in the top 4 things that I want the FO to accomplish this season. I posted my plan several times. Read that and criticize that.

[jung]

So the plan is to bank on someone taking a 35 year old SS making 22M a year for 3 seasons, with an option for another 22M with a 4.5m buy out? Brilliant.

 

I don't think the Sox are or were in any kind of position to consider what the Jays did but I can see the Jays doing it. They think they have a legit shot at a 2013 run....good for them. They will be left with the wreckage win or lose. They could off that contract. They might have to send some money off with Reyes but if they won it all in 2013 it would be worth it. I may not have said it strongly enough but I think it would have been a bad way for the Sox to go. If they could have cut Johnson out of it, that would have been enough of a gamble for the Sox IMO. Maybe the two arms would have been worth a shot by the Sox IMO. Reyes is a poison pill contract IMO and that is likely what shied the Sox. Certainly if the Marlins insisted on WMB, that would have killed it as well I think.

[example1]

Reyes wouldn't necessarily be easy to trade later just because hes a SS. Most of us have seen him play. He's good but an injury or slowing with age and he could be a sub .800 ops player costing 1.000 ops dollars.

 

It sounds like the Sox explored getting him but where would he have fit in the lineup? Seems like a repeat of Carl Crawford to me.

[a700hitter]

I don't think the Sox are or were in any kind of position to consider what the Jays did but I can see the Jays doing it. They think they have a legit shot at a 2013 run....good for them. They will be left with the wreckage win or lose. They could off that contract. They might have to send some money off with Reyes but if they won it all in 2013 it would be worth it. I may not have said it strongly enough but I think it would have been a bad way for the Sox to go. If they could have cut Johnson out of it, that would have been enough of a gamble for the Sox IMO. Maybe the two arms would have been worth a shot by the Sox IMO. Reyes is a poison pill contract IMO and that is likely what shied the Sox. Certainly if the Marlins insisted on WMB, that would have killed it as well I think.

At this point in time, the Jays are significantly better than the Red Sox. I don't care how the Jays look 4 years from now. Is that a win now mentality? It's just an assessment of what is. Our team sucks right now, and I have no great confidence that we will be contending for a championship in 4 years based on our FO leadership and our farm system. Who the hell knows? If I don't know what the Sox will look like in 4 years, how can I presume to know what the Jays will be like in 4 years?

[BSN07]

I never said that. Those are your words. A shortstop wasn't in the top 4 things that I want the FO to accomplish this season. I posted my plan several times. Read that and criticize that.

 

I quoted Jung with that response. Time to visit the eye doc again 700?

[BSN07]

I don't think the Sox are or were in any kind of position to consider what the Jays did but I can see the Jays doing it. They think they have a legit shot at a 2013 run....good for them. They will be left with the wreckage win or lose. They could off that contract. They might have to send some money off with Reyes but if they won it all in 2013 it would be worth it. I may not have said it strongly enough but I think it would have been a bad way for the Sox to go. If they could have cut Johnson out of it, that would have been enough of a gamble for the Sox IMO. Maybe the two arms would have been worth a shot by the Sox IMO. Reyes is a poison pill contract IMO and that is likely what shied the Sox. Certainly if the Marlins insisted on WMB, that would have killed it as well I think.

 

Yes, this was not the right package for the Sox. This is a big risk for AA in Toronto, one that will save his job or end it.

[a700hitter]

Reyes wouldn't necessarily be easy to trade later just because hes a SS. Most of us have seen him play. He's good but an injury or slowing with age and he could be a sub .800 ops player costing 1.000 ops dollars.

 

It sounds like the Sox explored getting him but where would he have fit in the lineup? Seems like a repeat of Carl Crawford to me.

If Carl Crawford could be traded within a week after TJ surgery, anyone can be traded. I didn't say that Reyes would be easy to trade. That's your filter at work again. I said that he would be easier to trade than Crawford because he plays SS. I stand by that.

[a700hitter]

I quoted Jung with that response. Time to visit the eye doc again 700?

Maybe so.