Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

They need arms to make the WC, not bats.

[bubbakeg52]

Do you understand the amount of money and what those guys can do for 3 years. Money isn't being wasted for 3 years. Thats 41mil ... Add Sanchez and Gaza

[SoxFanForsyth]

2yrs ago he had a -12 OPS plus

ciriaco can play that role worse case.

Problem with Kalish as a 4 is he will end up getting hurt and Nava or Lin will take his ab.

Sands is going to be on the bench to doing his job well.

 

An 88 OPS+ and a -12 OPS+ are two very different things.

 

And he was 22. And he started the season in AA. And he was called up in July.

 

He's a much better OF than you give him credit for. He's been injured and is finally healthy.

 

Pedroia had a 42 OPS+ when he was 22.

[bubbakeg52]

ya 88 off of avg.

They say he is healthy one year after the other. I bet you if the bring in Bay or Sizemore, they would be the same player. Same player=s***.

I thought he was better than Reddick too but I'm being realistic

[jung]

I like how Kalish was "healthy" for most of the season and then when the numbers...all bad were in, he is suddenly still suffering from his poo' bwoken' shoulder after all.

 

I swear the money is turning baseball into a racket. Between PEDs and the BS we end up having to hear pretty constantly it is getting to be just about all a body can take.

 

Lets see, we have Kalish and his suddenly still ailing shoulder. Then there was AGons first with the unbearable travel schedule and next ya' know he's the innocent victim of the left field wall he purposefully aimed at all the beginning of 2012 season. Agons will be much safer out there in LA where there will be fewer folks around that actually can tell what a hitter is trying to do from watching him hit... or should I say try to.

 

Maybe I should cut Kalish some slack and maybe not. Since he has already spilled the beans this year he will have to come up with a new excuse if he craps out this time around.

[SCM33]

What do you think of trading both Salty and Lavarnway?

 

CF- Ellsbury

2b-Pedroia

C- Napoli 13

DH-Ortiz

1b-LaRoche 13

3b-Middlebrooks

RF-Swisher 15

LF-Ross

SS-Ciriaco

 

41 mil.

That looks good for the WC

 

Ross is a FA and Ciriaco is not an everyday SS. Lavarnway isn't going anywhere.

 

Sign Swisher. Sign Napoli. Sign Alex Gonzalez....RF, 1B, SS. Lavarnway and Ross do the catching.

 

Lavarnway/Ross, Swisher and Napoli are all improvements over their replacements in terms of taking pitches and getting on base. Gonzalez is a low OBP guy, but thats a position that we have pretty much always conceded at.

 

That still doesnt solve the mess with the rotation though.

[SCM33]

An 88 OPS+ and a -12 OPS+ are two very different things.

 

And he was 22. And he started the season in AA. And he was called up in July.

 

He's a much better OF than you give him credit for. He's been injured and is finally healthy.

 

Pedroia had a 42 OPS+ when he was 22.

 

Ok, well when Pedroia was 23 he won the AL ROY, and then when he was 24....he won the AL MVP, Gold Glove and Silver Slugger.

 

Kalish going to be 25 and hasn't proven a thing. He has actually declined. He doesn't deserve the hype.

[rjortiz]

An 88 OPS+ and a -12 OPS+ are two very different things.

 

And he was 22. And he started the season in AA. And he was called up in July.

 

He's a much better OF than you give him credit for. He's been injured and is finally healthy.

 

Pedroia had a 42 OPS+ when he was 22.

 

I know you like him, and he seems like a cool guy, but Pedroia was a highly touted prospect coming out of college and throughout the minor leagues. Aside from a month where he didn't hit, Pedroia always raked. Kalish has been struggling for two years. It's hard to compare the two.

 

I'd like to see what he could do in AAA for a few months.

[BSN07]

Hunter told teams he wasn't interested in talking to them unless things didn't work out with the Tigers, reports Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com (on Twitter).

 

This is still Ben's fault. The fact he did not even try hypnotism is ridiculous. He got his lunch eaten here...

[rjortiz]

This is still Ben's fault. The fact he did not even try hypnotism is ridiculous. He got his lunch eaten here...

 

Hahaha

[a700hitter]

I don't know what to expect from Cherington. His short tenure has been very undistinguished. Red Sox tickets usually go on sale during the first week of December with a Christmas at Fenway kickoff. They sell 4 game pax to get a big jump on the advanced sales. IMO, they are going to want to bring in a marquee type guy before then to create some excitement that will translate into ticket sales. I expect that a major move(s) will be made in the next week to 10 days. If they don't, I think that might portend of a slow off season on Yawkey Way.

[ibot2much]

Maybe he can find a synonym for "bridge" year

[kapsis21]

Ross is a FA and Ciriaco is not an everyday SS. Lavarnway isn't going anywhere.

 

Sign Swisher. Sign Napoli. Sign Alex Gonzalez....RF, 1B, SS. Lavarnway and Ross do the catching.

 

Lavarnway/Ross, Swisher and Napoli are all improvements over their replacements in terms of taking pitches and getting on base. Gonzalez is a low OBP guy, but thats a position that we have pretty much always conceded at.

 

That still doesnt solve the mess with the rotation though.

 

Swisher is going to ask a 4-5 year deal. i thought we were trying to go away from that.

i never understood why we let Alex or Orlando Cabrera walk away and we repeated that with Scutaro..

[a700hitter]

Maybe he can find a synonym for "bridge" year

s*** year -- maybe?

[iortiz]

I don't know what to expect from Cherington. His short tenure has been very undistinguished. Red Sox tickets usually go on sale during the first week of December with a Christmas at Fenway kickoff. They sell 4 game pax to get a big jump on the advanced sales. IMO, they are going to want to bring in a marquee type guy before then to create some excitement that will translate into ticket sales. I expect that a major move(s) will be made in the next week to 10 days. If they don't, I think that might portend of a slow off season on Yawkey Way.

 

I clearly remember that some posters said that this year (2012-2013 offseason), the deck of options at FA was going to be a lot much better than last offseason (2011-2012), and that we had to be patience because our FO had everything figured out SPECIALLY regarding our pitching and was no need to risk our future trading our great prospects... I was not agree but I said oks... let's see...... Now and a year later... the same old people still saying that we have to be patience because our great FO has everything figured out, because results will show up in 2015 or something.... I want to know what are they going to say if the same horrible story repeats again in 2015.

 

You know what... ********!

 

Ben, wake the f*** up and sign the f***' arms. Somebody say this guy that we have 4 years in a row without winning a f***ing PO game. 4!.

[a700hitter]

I clearly remember that some posters said that this year (2012-2013 offseason), the deck of options at FA was going to be a lot much better than last offseason (2011-2012), and that we had to be patience because our FO had everything figured out SPECIALLY regarding our pitching and was no need to risk our future trading our great prospects... I was not agree but I said oks... let's see...... Now and a year later... the same old people still saying that we have to be patience because our great FO has everything figured out, because results will show up in 2015 or something.... I want to know what are they going to say if the same horrible story repeats again in 2015.

 

You know what... ********!

 

Ben, wake the f*** up and sign the f***' arms. Somebody say this guy that we have 4 years in a row without winning a f***ing PO game. 4!.

Plenty of good pitchers change uniforms every year. There is no excuse not to get in on the action. The thought that matt Cain, Hamels etc would be available was preposterous. Good teams don't let pitcher like that walk. The only one that didn't get extended was Greinke.

[iortiz]

Plenty of good pitchers change uniforms every year. There is no excuse not to get in on the action. The thought that matt Cain, Hamels etc would be available was preposterous. Good teams don't let pitcher like that walk. The only one that didn't get extended was Greinke.

 

All I hear around here is our talent this, our talent that. I remember the same old talk about Iglesias. Guy can't even hit. Do not take me wrong, I'm not against develop talent, but red sox fans need a contender team right away... too much pain already.

 

Anyway... Toronto just got what we needed. 2 great pitchers, an all star SS and a terrific utility player in Bonifacio that could be your everyday OF, SS, 3B or 1B easily.

[BSN07]

All I hear around here is our talent this, our talent that. I remember the same old talk about Iglesias. Guy can't even hit. Do not take me wrong, I'm not against develop talent, but red sox fans need a contender team right away... too much pain already.

 

Anyway... Toronto just got what we needed. 2 great pitchers, an all star SS and a terrific utility player in Bonifacio that could be your everyday OF, SS, 3B or 1B easily.

 

So Iglesias has no chance to develop into a decent hitter? I think it's a bit early to be giving up on him. He's going to be 23, he started directly in AA and made it to AAA and a September call up with his defense alone. I think he should at least get a couple years at the ML level to see if he can develop. Right now his defense alone makes him the best choice that's currently on the roster. I think he could have a positive impact on the pitching staff with his D.

 

Is he going to be Tulo? No, not many SS carry that kind of lumber. But a team doesn't always need an elite offensive SS to contend.

[SoxSport]

Iggy will get his chance this year. The Sox seem to be in a long range building mode, they are paying him $2.5 ? million this year, and he'll get a good look, along with some of the other prospects who have festered in AAA from benign neglect the last few years. When you don't fully know your prospects, you can get burned, as they did with Reddick. And Kalish was held down until he got seriously hurt in AAA, and hasn't been the same since.

 

Having said that, I sure would like to see Hamilton in a Red Sox uniform, if they can get him for 5 years or less. This team is dead right now, and he would put some life into them--and the fans. The guy just looks too much like TSW to pass up.

[BSN07]

Yes they need life to be brought into the team, but Hamilton is not the right guy to do that IMO.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Iggy will get his chance this year. The Sox seem to be in a long range building mode, they are paying him $2.5 ? million this year, and he'll get a good look, along with some of the other prospects who have festered in AAA from benign neglect the last few years. When you don't fully know your prospects, you can get burned, as they did with Reddick. And Kalish was held down until he got seriously hurt in AAA, and hasn't been the same since.

 

Having said that, I sure would like to see Hamilton in a Red Sox uniform, if they can get him for 5 years or less. This team is dead right now, and he would put some life into them--and the fans. The guy just looks too much like TSW to pass up.

 

I agree.

 

Give Hamilton 5/115-125 (LF)

Give Napoli 3/27 (1B)

Trade Salty + Alex Wilson (or that caliber of a prospect) for Garza (#4 SP)

Sign Hiroki Kuroda 1/15 (#3 SP)

 

Then you have a rotation of Lester/Buch/Kuroda/Garza/Lackey.

 

Lineup of Ells/Pedey/Hamilton/Ortiz/Napoli/WMB/Lavarnway/Kalish/Iggy.

 

Given the AL East this year, that's a team that will contend for the AL East title. All at a cost of around $145-150mm, which is about right where I expect the Sox to be.

[jacksonianmarch]

Salty and Alex Wilson for Garza? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

Cmon man, the Cubs gave up a massive haul to get Garza, they arent taking a C level prospect and a useless catcher for him

[redsoxfan3]

Sources are saying we are going to make a run for Hamilton.

 

I do not really want his big contract. That is why we did the Dodgers trade. I really think if we resign Ross, sign Napoli, sign Victorino or trade for another OF, sign Drew to compete for the starting SS position, sign a late inning reliever to help Bailey, and sign two guys like Kuroda and Sanchez that we will be a competitve team until some of our prospects are ready.

[iortiz]

I agree.

 

Give Hamilton 5/115-125 (LF)

Give Napoli 3/27 (1B)

Trade Salty + Alex Wilson (or that caliber of a prospect) for Garza (#4 SP)

Sign Hiroki Kuroda 1/15 (#3 SP)

 

Then you have a rotation of Lester/Buch/Kuroda/Garza/Lackey.

 

Lineup of Ells/Pedey/Hamilton/Ortiz/Napoli/WMB/Lavarnway/Kalish/Iggy.

 

Given the AL East this year, that's a team that will contend for the AL East title. All at a cost of around $145-150mm, which is about right where I expect the Sox to be.

 

Like this approach but two things.

 

1. I'm not sure that the Cubs would accept that trade.

2. I prefer Ciriaco over Iglesias any day. Guy can hit, steal, run and have pretty decent defense.

[iortiz]

...and I would sign Ross too... let Kalish be the 4th OF by now.

[iortiz]

So Iglesias has no chance to develop into a decent hitter? I think it's a bit early to be giving up on him. He's going to be 23, he started directly in AA and made it to AAA and a September call up with his defense alone. I think he should at least get a couple years at the ML level to see if he can develop. Right now his defense alone makes him the best choice that's currently on the roster. I think he could have a positive impact on the pitching staff with his D.

 

Is he going to be Tulo? No, not many SS carry that kind of lumber. But a team doesn't always need an elite offensive SS to contend.

IDK, do you?

 

One thing is for sure, I prefer Ciriaco over him right now. IMO he is not ready to be an everyday player. His defense is not enough IMO in order to give him the spot.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Salty and Alex Wilson for Garza? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

Cmon man, the Cubs gave up a massive haul to get Garza, they arent taking a C level prospect and a useless catcher for him

 

Yes. For 1 year, coming off an injury ridden season where he made 18 starts and didn't start a game after July 21, and in the games he did start he posted a near 4 ERA in the NL Central that just lost both Pujols and Fielder, going into his final year of arbitration where he'll be making more than he's made during his entire tenure with the Cubs.

 

No, no. They'll get the moon for him.

 

A 25-30 HR catcher and an above average bullpen arm? I'd say that's a good deal. Wilson posted a 9.5 K/9 and a 3.2 BB/9 as a reliever in 60 innings last year in Pawtucket, with a 3.27 ERA. He pumps around 97 with an above average slider. Not to mention Theo has always coveted Salty.

 

That's about as much as the Cubs will get for Garza right now. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Like this approach but two things.

 

1. I'm not sure that the Cubs would accept that trade.

2. I prefer Ciriaco over Iglesias any day. Guy can hit, steal, run and have pretty decent defense.

 

Ciriaco is smoke and mirrors man.

 

.352 BABIP fueled run, 2.9% BB% and 17.3% K%.

 

Bill James projects Iggy to be a .240/.285/.283 hitter next year. That's bad, but his defense up the middle is unbelievable.

 

Iglesias posted a WAR of 0.3 last year in 25 games. Ciriaco posted a WAR of 0.9 in 76 games. So, essentially they had the same impact. Except Iglesias hit .118 last year. He's obviously going to get close to doubling that, so to me, he's a better option.

 

Iggy will give you a 2-3 WAR at SS if he plays 150 games.

[jung]

If Iggy gets all the way to .240 off of last year...that would be pretty great and sort of a surprise. He did show signs of improvement by the end of the season though.

[bubbakeg52]

I agree.

 

Give Hamilton 5/115-125 (LF)

Give Napoli 3/27 (1B)

Trade Salty + Alex Wilson (or that caliber of a prospect) for Garza (#4 SP)

Sign Hiroki Kuroda 1/15 (#3 SP)

 

Then you have a rotation of Lester/Buch/Kuroda/Garza/Lackey.

 

Lineup of Ells/Pedey/Hamilton/Ortiz/Napoli/WMB/Lavarnway/Kalish/Iggy.

 

Given the AL East this year, that's a team that will contend for the AL East title. All at a cost of around $145-150mm, which is about right where I expect the Sox to be.

 

I like that and agree. People want to wine about the Dodgers deal saving the Sox money and that would hurt the team if they took on Hamilton's salary. They will still be saving money. The Sox can deal Doubront, Salty, and someone for Garza. Beckett sucked. Crawford sucked. Gonzalez was alright but was getting paid 22 mil. You can find anyone to hit 28 hr's at 1b for half the price. Ex. Napoli/Swisher