Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Palodios]

How do you know they passed on him rather then Haren choosing an NL contender in a year in which he hopes to rebuild his free agent value? I missed the interview where he said he was hoping to play in Boston, but never got an offer. I did see the one saying they had conversations but ultimately he chose the Nats. Is there another one?

 

They had two opportunities to get Haren.

 

The first was when the Angels declined his option, and didn't trade him.

 

The second was in free agency. If they paid 26 million for Dempster, I would bet that they could have beaten the contract the Nats offered him.

[seabeachfred]

Damnit Fred, every time you get on a good baseball discussion you fall right back into a700's drama...

 

And we don't need to try and get him or anyone else banned. If everyone would just ignore him he'd have no one to argue with, and with that he'd have nothing to actually discuss and hopefully take his monarchy elsewhere.

 

BSN, I wrote that post because I have been guilty of some of the stuff I was protesting about when it occurred to me that we are all in this together. Whether we're off the wall, pleasantly passionate or just quitely logical we are all Red Sox fans and we all want to see our team do well. 700 is as close a friend as I have on this board and we take on the phone periodically and I know he thinks we haven't done enough to upgrade for this season. That you and he are at swords point seems silly because you're both good baseball fans and knowledgeable whether you agree with each other or not. If you noticed some retorts to what I wrote bordered on the incredulous, but I think we can all be on the same page as we head into ST. I'm going to try like to keep personal attacks out of my posts even if I'm being criticized. I just though that might be a good way for all of us to get along on here.

[seabeachfred]

How do you know they passed on him rather then Haren choosing an NL contender in a year in which he hopes to rebuild his free agent value? I missed the interview where he said he was hoping to play in Boston, but never got an offer. I did see the one saying they had conversations but ultimately he chose the Nats. Is there another one?

 

That's exactly what I read in the LA papers this past fall on Haren. Yes, there were conversations but apparently the Red Sox never were serious is carrying them out. He was one pitcher I would have liked in Red Sox scarlet but my hopes were dashed as were probaly some others here. I then came to think that he probably felt he might have a better chance in the NL where he wouldn't have to face so many offensive juggernauts as he would have to in the AL He was, after all, trying to revamp and improve his FA value so he could cash in big at the end of this season.

[seabeachfred]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2013/02/gonzalez_crawfo.html

 

AdGon says the Red Sox problem was with the management, not the players. Lots of conflicts upstairs.

Lucchino paints everything over--he's one of the problems, in my view. It was clear his choice for manager, Valentine, never got any support from the rest of the organization. Maybe his frustrations led to his mouthing off to the media about his players.

 

Crawford? Well, Crawford seems a bit confused about what his problems were. He certainly wasn't a good fit--defensively in LF at small Fenway, or offensively--in a free swinging lineup that did not play smallball.

And he was grossly overpaid on a team that sneered at stolen bases.

 

There was a story on Crawford in the LA Times out here this morning and a more meely mouth, candy-ass excuse machine you never heard better before. He blamed the Red Sox, the town, the fans and the press for all his problems. He apparently forgot that he lost complete control of the strike zone, couldn't get on base to save his tush, and wound up like looking like a combination of Frulimek Peer and Stepin Fetchit in the outfield, stumbling and bumbling on routing short flies......remember that last one in Baltimore? I also remember two at Yankee Stadium.

 

OK, he is now here in Southern California where the fans are "more tolerant", but they are no longer pollyannaish and haven't been since McCourt raped the team of its funds. If Crawford shows some of the lack of talent he showed in Boston he will hear it from the fans and the press.

[a700hitter]

fixed

As I thought, you just can't resist the cheap potshot. Very petty, and totally predictable.

[dupree]

Classic player bash on his old team. All players seem to do it no matter what. Crawford wasnt a fit here and should never been signed. Beckett was on his downward slide and should of been traded before the blockbuster, dont care bout nick punto he was just included guess cuz LA needed a utilty guy, AGon is the only true lose we had but if he dont have power we didnt need him. And if a player is not happy hes not gonna play well. So none of the reports of Crawford saying anything bout the Sox surprises me, i hope the Dodgers fall apart at the seam and the 200milliononly plus is just a waste and dont make the playoffs. With all their additions and big spending i still dont think they are better than the Giants.

[mvp 78]

And Youk said he'll always be a Red Sock. Class all the way.

[dupree]

And Youk said he'll always be a Red Sock. Class all the way.

 

The season is still young, and it still would suprise me if Youk didnt throw a jab back at the FO and Bobby V especially (cant blame him for not liking Bobby V). It seems like when a player has a bitter taste of being traded away from the team he thought he would always be apart of, a bash always comes out. I hope it dont with Youk i hate seeing him in pinstripes most of all, but money is money and its the ultimate payback to win with your former teams biggest rival.

 

Crawford was just to bash the team for his sort comes and take the blame off himself.

[a700hitter]

The season is still young, and it still would suprise me if Youk didnt throw a jab back at the FO and Bobby V especially (cant blame him for not liking Bobby V). It seems like when a player has a bitter taste of being traded away from the team he thought he would always be apart of, a bash always comes out. I hope it dont with Youk i hate seeing him in pinstripes most of all, but money is money and its the ultimate payback to win with your former teams biggest rival.

 

Crawford was just to bash the team for his sort comes and take the blame off himself.

Youk will bash us on the field.

[SoxSport]

Reading today Cafardo says they have 5 guys at SS. Iggy, Bogey, Marrero, Ciriaco, Drew. Now Iggy hasn't shown he can hit at a hi level yet, Marrero has just single A experience (though a college grad), Ciriaco is viewed as a utility player, and Bogaerts needs to pay his dues in the minors. Which reminds me of his idol, Hanley Ramirez, who had to get traded to get his chance to become ROY in the NL for the Marlins. In Boston, he sits in AAA.

 

So why did they blow $10 mil on Drew? Why not have Bogey and Iggy fight it out for SS? I also see they have Bogey playing 3B in the WBC. What for?

 

The management has no balls.

[Dojji]

So why did they blow $10 mil on Drew? Why not have Bogey and Iggy fight it out for SS?

 

Because what happens if neither of them win? Are you really going to want a choice between a guy who hits .150 at the big league level and a guy who can't hack it defensively?

 

Besides, the price tag on Drew was exceedingly reasonable for a man with that kind of talent as a two way shortstop. I have no problem with bringing him in on a short term basis. I think that might have been Cherington's savviest move this offseason.

 

I also see they have Bogey playing 3B in the WBC. What for?

 

Because, to puit it quite bluntly, the Netherlands has no one who would be as useful at 3B as the replacement for Bogaerts is at SS. Xander can play either position just fine, and they can scare up an Iglesias type better than they can find a more effective corner infielder.

[BSN07]

Someone could have mentioned this before but with no big 1B prospect in the system why not move Middlebrooks to 1B next season, Bogaerts to 3B with Iggy taking over at SS(Marrero possibly taking it from him eventually)?

[a700hitter]

Reading today Cafardo says they have 5 guys at SS. Iggy, Bogey, Marrero, Ciriaco, Drew. Now Iggy hasn't shown he can hit at a hi level yet, Marrero has just single A experience (though a college grad), Ciriaco is viewed as a utility player, and Bogaerts needs to pay his dues in the minors. Which reminds me of his idol, Hanley Ramirez, who had to get traded to get his chance to become ROY in the NL for the Marlins. In Boston, he sits in AAA.

 

So why did they blow $10 mil on Drew? Why not have Bogey and Iggy fight it out for SS? I also see they have Bogey playing 3B in the WBC. What for?

 

The management has no balls.

It doesn't make much sense to me. After this season, the window may be closed on Iggy because he'll be getting pushed by Bogy and then Marrero. This was the time to see if he could play at this level. We're not going to win anything this year. They should have given the kid a shot. Basically, I think that his window is very very small right now. He'll have to hit like crazy at AAA and take the job from Drew if he wants to be part of this team's future in 2014 and beyond.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not getting the feeling that the Sox are committed to Iggy being the future shortstop at all. We heard rumors that he was involved in the trade talks with the Pirates.

[Palodios]

It doesn't make much sense to me. After this season, the window may be closed on Iggy because he'll be getting pushed by Bogy and then Marrero. This was the time to see if he could play at this level. We're not going to win anything this year. They should have given the kid a shot. Basically, I think that his window is very very small right now. He'll have to hit like crazy at AAA and take the job from Drew if he wants to be part of this team's future in 2014 and beyond.

 

Iglesias simply needs more seasoning in AAA. His bat probably won't be ready for the majors for another 1-2 years.

 

Stephen Drew is a huge buy-low player. There are only a handful of shortstops who could put down .800 OPS seasons with solid defense, and he's one of them. I see them giving him a chance to rebuild value, and trading him midseason to a contender for a solid pitching prospect.

[Bellhorn04]

Iglesias simply needs more seasoning in AAA. His bat probably won't be ready for the majors for another 1-2 years.

 

Stephen Drew is a huge buy-low player. There are only a handful of shortstops who could put down .800 OPS seasons with solid defense, and he's one of them. I see them giving him a chance to rebuild value, and trading him midseason to a contender for a solid pitching prospect.

 

Possibly...but this is not a team that even likes to hint that it's throwing in the towel on the year...they wouldn't even do it last year till they were stone cold dead in August.

[a700hitter]

Possibly...but this is not a team that even likes to hint that it's throwing in the towel on the year...they wouldn't even do it last year till they were stone cold dead in August.

Yep, I agree. I don't know who they think they are fooling. It's not a good team, and that will become evident pretty quickly once the season starts. Band aids like Napoli, Drew and Gomes are not going to help. Bandaids for the pitching was the direction that they needed to go, but didn't.

[a700hitter]

I'm not getting the feeling that the Sox are committed to Iggy being the future shortstop at all. We heard rumors that he was involved in the trade talks with the Pirates.

I think they have all but given up on him. They'd prefer to try to achieve some level of respectability this season and not throw in the towel than to give some of the kids an opportunity.

[a700hitter]

This declaration from Larry L is bizarre. I really think this FO is clueless. They are cutting the margin of error so thin, despite spending $160 million, that they need to lower the expectations of the fans because they must realize that this can spiral down the drain like last year if they get a few injuries.

 

Larry Lucchino’s underdog comment doesn’t fly .

February 15, 2013

 

FORT MYERS — The problem with the 2013 Red Sox being labeled as “scrappy underdogs” is that it shouldn’t be Larry Lucchino who gets to deliver the message.

 

Scrappy underdogs? That’s a term that should be reserved for fans, sportswriters and talk-show hosts, not the CEO of a big league ballclub whose payroll this season will be in excess of $160 million.

 

Speaking with reporters yesterday morning at JetBlue Park, Lucchino made it sound like this year’s roster includes Ricky “Wild Thing” Vaughn, Willie Mays Hayes, Pedro Cerrano and those other lovable misfits from the film “Major League.”

 

.“I actually like being the underdog,” said Lucchino, who then compared his club with the rebuilt, back-in-business Toronto Blue Jays, who spent a ton of money this offseason in an attempt to revitalize baseball in a city where most people tuned out the game since the Roberto Alomar-Joe Carter glory days of the early 1990s.

 

Lucchino said he reminded Blue Jays president Paul Beeston that “there’s no trophies for winning the offseason. If he wants to go into the season feeling he is the prohibitive favorite, that’s great. We’re just scrappy underdogs trying to win for our franchise and for our fans.”

 

Most Red Sox fans understand the Sox are trying to field a representative team this season while holding onto and nurturing a promising collection of minor leaguers they hope will emerge as big stars. The Sox could have completely tanked this season and told fans to wait until 2014; instead, they went out and spent some money for actual big league players.

 

And you know what? If the Sox get off to a good start, and if such newcomers as Shane Victorino, Jonny Gomes and Stephen Drew contribute great catches, clutch hits and hustle on the basepaths, fans may actually look at these guys as “scrappy.” They certainly won’t see them as the dogs of last summer.

 

But now that we have the CEO branding the 2013 Red Sox as “scrappy,” it’s as though expectations for this season are being tempered. And let’s face it, the whole “scrappy underdog” thing hasn’t been what the Red Sox are selling on television, what with those non-stop, return-to-glory, “162 Chances to Restore the Faith” ads.

 

You’ve seen those ads, right? Was there anything in there about scrappy underdogs?

 

So now it’s a mixed message. From “Restore the Faith” to “Scrappy Underdogs.”

 

Sorry, the Red Sox shouldn’t be selling “scrappy” when such teams as the Houston Astros are handing out uniforms to starry-eyed kids.

 

Mixed message? It’s the same problem with the infamous “sellout streak,’ which sits at 793 games but is expected to end sometime in April.

 

Lucchino confirmed the obvious yesterday, saying, “It’s going to rest in peace, I think, sometime in April I suspect. That’s not a terrible thing. It’s an extraordinary accomplishment.”

 

The extraordinary accomplishment is that fans have been cramming into Fenway Park since early in the 2003 season. The post-Yawkey era ownership of John W. Henry, Tom Werner and Larry Lucchino spent money on players, renovated Fenway Park and added all kinds of zesty, feel-good promotions, and fans loved it.

 

Oh, and the Sox won two World Series championships. It was so good, so good, so often.

 

But we all have eyes, and we all saw a ton of empty seats the past two seasons. Yet the Red Sox kept announcing a nightly sellout and moved the clicker up a notch on the sellout streak. And then they’d get defensive when anybody questioned them about it.

 

If they weren’t imprisoned by the streak, we’d all be marveling at the big crowds. Instead, most people look at the empty seats in the back rows of the grandstand and cry foul from foul territory.

 

When I spoke with Lucchino after yesterday’s press conference, he showed a sense of humor about the streak by suggesting the Red Sox actually promote it.

 

“We were joking that we should have Sellout Streak R.I.P. Night and make it a celebration,” he said. “Just make light of it.”

 

That would be a good message: The Red Sox showing an ability to laugh at themselves.

 

Hey, if you’re going to be plucky underdogs you need to have a sense of humor.

[SouthieFanatic]

I think it's really good how the media isn't bashing the players right now with 'World Series" questions right off the bat. The goal is obviously to win it all, but the pressure seems to have gone down from previous years. Anybody who's watched the Bucholz and Lackey interviews on NESN knows this

[SouthieFanatic]

I think they have all but given up on him. They'd prefer to try to achieve some level of respectability this season and not throw in the towel than to give some of the kids an opportunity.

 

Even if one of those kids is Xander? If the RedSox are indeed giving up on Iglesias a bit as SS, then maybe it's because they've finally figured Bogaerts can handle the position. I've heard they're going to play him a bit at third though, but only to get him ready for his Dutch duties in the WBC. I still like him at SS

[Dojji]

It's at least half a year too early to rush Xander Bogaerts to the bigs. He's only going to be 20 and has no AAA experience. There's more risk than reward in displaying impatience with him at this juncture.

 

I do agree that signing Drew is a sign that they've largely given up on Iglesias. Drew is a pretty solid stopgap, and as long as his health issues don't come back again, I don't see a hole opening up at SS this year.

 

And of course, if Drew is more than sufficient at SS, like I think he might be, I'd have nothing against extending him until Bogaerts is ready, and then trading him once Bogaerts shows that he is in fact ready. I don't like counting on rookies in the offseason. It tends to blow up on you. Always have that veteran guy, even if you fully intend to trade him or reduce his role as soon as the kid is ready.

[mvp 78]

Oh s***, a half year too early!

[Dojji]

At least. At least half a year too early. That's the best scenario with Bogaerts going right up to AAA and killing everything thrown at him, and displaying everything the Sox brass needs to see on the defensive end.

 

Realistically, given the way this team prefers to develop their prospects, and the fact that nothing ever goes entirely according to plan, we're likely looking at more like one and a half years. Wouldn't even shock me too much to see Bogaerts break camp and start the season in AA this year, until he forces a promotion. We have little to gain from being insanely overaggressive promoting this kid. Let things develop in their own time.

 

To put it another way, which would you really rather do, start his clock now and get 2 years of Bogaerts learning on the job, and having him start to really click just as he gets expensive, or a more conservative pattern that has the team starting Bogaerts' clock after another 1000 AB's or so when he's more likely to be productive for all 6 years of team control?

[mvp 78]

I don't care about the clock. The Sox can afford anyone they want to keep.

[SoxSport]

As I recall, Hanley Ramirez came out of AA ball, got traded to the Marlins, and next year was ROY in the NL. If he doesn't get traded, he sits in AAA for a year.

 

Middlebrooks spent only a partial season in AAA, and would have still been there if Youkilis hadn't destructed.

 

The Red Sox like to sit on their prospects. That's their history. Partly because their roster is always heavy with high salaried veterans. Partly because they believe in the maximum amount of seasoning in the minors.

 

The Orioles have a kid named Manny Machado. He's getting overhyped off his scant minor league background, but he's 20 and being touted as the next ARod. Already in his 2nd year in the majors.

That doesn't happen in Boston.

 

The Red Sox have a bunch of prospects right now, but the roster has been filled with veterans, as usual.

[SoxSport]

It doesn't make much sense to me. After this season, the window may be closed on Iggy because he'll be getting pushed by Bogy and then Marrero. This was the time to see if he could play at this level. We're not going to win anything this year. They should have given the kid a shot. Basically, I think that his window is very very small right now. He'll have to hit like crazy at AAA and take the job from Drew if he wants to be part of this team's future in 2014 and beyond.

 

I don't care who plays SS. But I'd like to see all these kids get a serious shot at what they can do, instead of parking them all in Pawtucket. But they never get that shot with a position closed up already by an expensive player. Drew is the SS.

 

They just aren't willing yet to go to the prospects--preferring the veterans. Are any of those prospects ready yet? Who knows? They had no real clue about Middlebrooks, but were forced to bring him up when Youkilis got hurt. And if Drew gets hurt...

 

The prevailing view, it seems, is we talk prospects, but we go with the salaries. Because we have to be respectable--to sell tickets. And the money is there to spend.

[SouthieFanatic]

The Sox are just overly caucious with prospects. They think they'll get their confidence shattered to pieces from a couple K's. Maybe they're right too, it all depends on the players psyche

[mvp 78]

They aren't winning jack this year. There's no better time to throw a few prospects in the deep end and see if they can swim. There is no point in waiting. If you're worried about hurting a fragile psyche, well then maybe they wouldn't be a good fit in this market anyway!

[SouthieFanatic]

They aren't winning jack this year. There's no better time to throw a few prospects in the deep end and see if they can swim. There is no point in waiting. If you're worried about hurting a fragile psyche, well then maybe they wouldn't be a good fit in this market anyway!

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself. From what i've read on Bogaerts it sounds like he's oozing with confidence too