Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

You might have dodged the question by playing the "your new, so I'm not answering you until you have x amount of posts" card, but I'm not new, and I'm asking you to put up or STFU.

It's amusing that you are referencing my response to a serially banned poster who came back with the sole intent of baiting and causing problems. He didn't even last for the remainder of that day before getting banned again. I am happy to engage you when you are not acting like that guy.

 

But maybe in your case I should implement a minimum IQ requirement before responding. My time is too valuable to waste on idiots.

[SoxSport]

Whoa Palodios, let's not get carried away. Victorino is not replacing garbage; he could be garbage himself compared to the player he is replacing. Cody Ross hit 22 homers for us last year and drove in 81 runs. Shane will not get close to those figures. The rest I will agree with you on but not Ross. How soon some of us forget.

 

The key is to use the skills these players offer. Vic has speed, can steal a lot of bases. He has some pop. Usually hits at or near the top of the lineup. Very good in CF or RF.

You have to use these skills to get the most out of him. Bat him 1st or 2nd and give him the green light.

 

If Farrell does nothing else this year, he should be utilizing speed where he has it--at the top of the lineup. And encouraging the 1-2 batters to get on base.

 

One of Crawford's problems in Boston is one of his major skills--speed and stealing bases--was virtually ignored on a team that is power-oriented.

[mvp 78]

And Ross' defense sucked. Victorino will be great in RF at Fenway.

[BSN07]

Of course you explained that they did the smartest thing, because you are personally unimaginative, have no ideas of your own, and blindly support the FO at every turn.

 

If you had asked me what I would have done, I would have been happy to share my ideas. but what would be the point when you already know what I think and what I would think in every situation. The fact that you think so is a perfect example of being asinine.

 

You have completely lost it.

 

You also should get paid by the Jets as a secondary coach because you back peddling technique is perfect.

[BSN07]

It's amusing that you are referencing my response to a serially banned poster who came back with the sole intent of baiting and causing problems. He didn't even last for the remainder of that day before getting banned again. I am happy to engage you when you are not acting like that guy.

 

But maybe in your case I should implement a minimum IQ requirement before responding. My time is too valuable to waste on idiots.

 

Same ol soup, just re-heated. The a700 special. Question the other parties intelligence instead of nutting up and answering the question.

[Bellhorn04]

Same ol soup, just re-heated. The a700 special. Question the other parties intelligence instead of nutting up and answering the question.

 

Somebody has to stop this back and forth stuff or it'll go on forever. Let's get back to baseball talk.

[BSN07]

Somebody has to stop this back and forth stuff or it'll go on forever. Let's get back to baseball talk.

 

I tried, I asked him a baseball specific question. He couldn't respond with a baseball answer. Instead he pulled his usual crap and I called him out on it.

 

 

Ok back to Baseball. Did Lackey participate in the "crack-head" diet this off season? He looks like he lost 100 pounds.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You guys will never find ways to stop fighting on the forum. We just went through a terrible season, offseason means they'll be a lot of fights. Wait until we win a WS, they'll be nothing to fight about for a good 3 months.

[Bellhorn04]

I tried, I asked him a baseball specific question. He couldn't respond with a baseball answer. Instead he pulled his usual crap and I called him out on it.

 

 

Ok back to Baseball. Did Lackey participate in the "crack-head" diet this off season? He looks like he lost 100 pounds.

 

Yeah, I was shocked at how he looks too.

[jung]

That is a lotta' change for a pitcher to go through ...surgery.....lost all that weight....(may or may not be a good thing). We all agree that it will be a matter of luck as much as anything for Lackey this first year back. The cards sure seem stacked against him.

[a700hitter]

Same ol soup, just re-heated. The a700 special. Question the other parties intelligence instead of nutting up and answering the question.

f*** off.Learn how to ask a question without insulting someone.

[a700hitter]

I tried, I asked him a baseball specific question. He couldn't respond with a baseball answer. Instead he pulled his usual crap and I called him out on it.

 

 

Ok back to Baseball. Did Lackey participate in the "crack-head" diet this off season? He looks like he lost 100 pounds.

Look back at the exchange. Are you stoned? I made a comment. You responded with an insult and the question you asked me was this:

Is there any situation where you wouldn't have anything to complain about?

I didn't interpret that as a baseball question, so no baseball answer was given. You can't be so stupid as to think that is a baseball question and not see that as just an insult.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You're the king, who cares what he says? Just messing a700, but I say we drop it because it's getting nowhere.

[a700hitter]

You're the king, who cares what he says? Just messing a700, but I say we drop it because it's getting nowhere.

RSFL, I just get tired of the guy insulting me, and then saying he is calling me out on a baseball question. We can all read. I made a comment expressing my opinion of the RedSox off season. I didn't inult him. He can go manage his wooden shoe league and f*** off. I'm too old to waste time trying to get along with jackasses.:D I don't engage with stupid and obnoxious.

 

How is your research paper going? There are a ton of funny stories about Williams if you want to work some of them into the paper.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I'm getting the book today, but probably won't get into it much until Sunday.

[BSN07]

Bridge Year -- cost $170 million. Just asinine.

 

How? They are up that high because of the short term high AAV they gave out. If you would once in your life look beyond one season you will see the Sox have an absolute ton of money available in the next few seasons and an increasing amount of roster flexibility. If they spent the money on the big ticket items they would be at the same payroll but wouldn't have the flexibility going forward. If they went total rebuild and spent considerably less you would have been complaining that they are pocketing your money.

 

Is there any situation where you wouldn't have anything to complain about?

I'm not sure where I insulted you.

Do you want to discuss this and we can exchange our ideas or do you want to persist in being an asshat telling me what I think and what I would think? If you you want to exchange ideas, I'm in. Otherwise, STFU.

There is your insult

You said it was a 170M payroll for this season was "asinine"

 

Definition of asinine:

 

 

I explained what they have done was not unintelligent and looks to be the smartest thing to do compared tot he other avenues they could have taken. I don't see how I'm being an "asshat" just because I called you out on your typical moaning and groaning.

 

But by all means please layout your master plan of how they should have approached building the team. You might have dodged the question by playing the "your new, so I'm not answering you until you have x amount of posts" card, but I'm not new, and I'm asking you to put up or STFU.

Still looking for mine

f*** off.Learn how to ask a question without insulting someone.

And this about sums you up.

 

/class

[a700hitter]

I'm not sure where I insulted you.

 

There is your insult

 

Still looking for mine

 

And this about sums you up.

You are dense. That sums it up.

[BSN07]

You are dense. That sums it up.

 

Please continue, you are only proving my point. It's almost too easy at this point.

[a700hitter]

Please continue, you are only proving my point. It's almost too easy at this point.

There's no need for me to engage with you any further.

[BSN07]

There's no need for me to engage with you any further.

 

I know, OZ is out from behind the curtain. You completely face planted by trying to play the "he insulted me" card when I clearly did no such thing and now it's right out there for everyone to see. I couldn't think of a better way to end correspondence with you :thumbsup:

[a700hitter]

I know, OZ is out from behind the curtain. You completely face planted by trying to play the "he insulted me" card when I clearly did no such thing and now it's right out there for everyone to see. I couldn't think of a better way to end correspondence with you :thumbsup:

The End.

[SoxSport]

Yeah, it was pretty stupid for them to spend all that money they saved, and then have everybody conclude that it was a "bridge year" after all.

 

It better not be a bridge year. Because if they end up a .500 team, people will be asking that question.

Why did they waste all that money? They could have just played their prospects instead of keeping them in AAA. Or signed cheaper players for one year. Now they are stuck with mediocre players for 2-3 years.

The chances are slim Napoli will have the season he had a couple years ago. And Victorino and Dempster are hardly impact players.

 

But the bottom line is the pitching. They must have solid starting pitching to improve--regardless of what the hitters do.

[BSN07]

Yeah, it was pretty stupid for them to spend all that money they saved, and then have everybody conclude that it was a "bridge year" after all.

 

It better not be a bridge year. Because if they end up a .500 team, people will be asking that question.

Why did they waste all that money? They could have just played their prospects instead of keeping them in AAA. Or signed cheaper players for one year. Now they are stuck with mediocre players for 2-3 years.

The chances are slim Napoli will have the season he had a couple years ago. And Victorino and Dempster are hardly impact players.

 

But the bottom line is the pitching. They must have solid starting pitching to improve--regardless of what the hitters do.

 

I would have been cool with a total rebuild and letting some young guys get a chance. But that s*** is not going to float in a media market like Boston anymore.

 

They have to spend the money because they are the Red Sox and have high ticket prices. We all know they aren't going to drop the prices. So if they didn't spend the money on these short term guys, a certain sect of fans would have been going ape s*** and skewered the ownership for "pocketing their money".

[seabeachfred]

I would have been cool with a total rebuild and letting some young guys get a chance. But that s*** is not going to float in a media market like Boston anymore.

 

They have to spend the money because they are the Red Sox and have high ticket prices. We all know they aren't going to drop the prices. So if they didn't spend the money on these short term guys, a certain sect of fans would have been going ape s*** and skewered the ownership for "pocketing their money".

 

I think the problem might be that the front office has never come out and asked the fans to be patient, that they must rebuild and wait for their kids to develop. That, plus the fact that the Boegarts, Brentzes, Bradleys, Barneses are still not quite ready for the big top, necessitates their having to go out and try to patch things up with some signings on a short term basis. What I don't want to see is these kids being held back another year or two when they're ready---as Youkilis was back in 2005 or Lavarnway last year. Red Sox fans are loyal and will follow their team come what may just as long as they know what the front office is really thinking and philosophising. What none of us want is to hear a bunch of ******** from Lucchino, who has never wanted to rebuild and seems to be worried more about marketing and promotions than building a solid foundation. At least that's the way I see it.

[a700hitter]

Yeah, it was pretty stupid for them to spend all that money they saved, and then have everybody conclude that it was a "bridge year" after all.

 

It better not be a bridge year. Because if they end up a .500 team, people will be asking that question.

Why did they waste all that money? They could have just played their prospects instead of keeping them in AAA. Or signed cheaper players for one year. Now they are stuck with mediocre players for 2-3 years.

The chances are slim Napoli will have the season he had a couple years ago. And Victorino and Dempster are hardly impact players.

 

But the bottom line is the pitching. They must have solid starting pitching to improve--regardless of what the hitters do.

 

My sentiments exactly. What they have built looks very much like a 4th place or last place team, and that's where most of the experts are picking them to finish. What was the point of giving Dempster 2 years and $26 million, Gomes a 2 year contract, offering Napoli three years (since scaled back to 1 year), and Drew $9 million for 1 season? Also, what was the point of the Hanrahan deal, because we will only have him for one year? I can understand the Victorino 3 year contract, because it is becoming clear that they will not pursue keeping Ellsbury, and Victorino will be the CFer in his final 2 contract years. The other deals I don't get. They spent all this money on a team that will finish fourth, at best.

 

There was no need to get Drew. They could have finished last with Iglesias and finally determined if he is a major league ballplayer and saved $8.5 million. We could have seen if Sands could put up 25 HRs in the majors and if he did, he be a nice find or more valuable trade bait. They got Ross and kept Salty and all but ensured that Lavarnway will rot for another season at AAA. What is thepoint of that if it ends in a 4th place or last place finish? Mauro Gomez could have shared first base with someone cheap like Loney and maybe developed some trade value if he could hit at least as well as Carlos Quintana.

 

The way I see it is that $170 million goes down a black hole for 2013 and we will still have the same unanswered questions about Iglesias and Lavarnaway going into 2014 and we have given away Sands for 1 year of Hanrahan.

 

As these deals were being made, I didn't thnk they were bad moves, except for Dempster. I liked them for the most part, but I thought that it was only part of the plan, not a completion of the plan. The first priority toward improving this team was starting pitching. They did next to nothing in that area. My opinion of Dempster is not very high. Without substantial improvements to the starting pitching, this is a very incomplete plan IMO. They should have pocketed the moolah and used it next season.

[BSN07]

I think the problem might be that the front office has never come out and asked the fans to be patient, that they must rebuild and wait for their kids to develop. That, plus the fact that the Boegarts, Brentzes, Bradleys, Barneses are still not quite ready for the big top, necessitates their having to go out and try to patch things up with some signings on a short term basis. What I don't want to see is these kids being held back another year or two when they're ready---as Youkilis was back in 2005 or Lavarnway last year. Red Sox fans are loyal and will follow their team come what may just as long as they know what the front office is really thinking and philosophising. What none of us want is to hear a bunch of ******** from Lucchino, who has never wanted to rebuild and seems to be worried more about marketing and promotions than building a solid foundation. At least that's the way I see it.

 

imo they won't be held back. If/when one of the B's or other prospects shows they are ready to take over, I think a spot will be made for them.It's another important aspect of these short term deals that shouldn't be overlooked. Not saying the Sox will just hand a job over, but you get what I mean.

 

imo this is how a large market team should conduct a "rebuild". They are giving us enough to stay interested instead of just mailing the next season or two in. Are they a juggernaut? no of course not. But they aren't the Astros either. Hopefully they are in contention all year. But if the team shits the bed the TDL should be very interesting.

[Palodios]

My sentiments exactly. What they have built looks very much like a 4th place or last place team, and that's where most of the experts are picking them to finish. What was the point of giving Dempster 2 years and $26 million, Gomes a 2 year contract, offering Napoli three years (since scaled back to 1 year), and Drew $9 million for 1 season? Also, what was the point of the Hanrahan deal, because we will only have him for one year? I can understand the Victorino 3 year contract, because it is becoming clear that they will not pursue keeping Ellsbury, and Victorino will be the CFer in his final 2 contract years. The other deals I don't get. They spent all this money on a team that will finish fourth, at best.

 

What would you do? No way you'd go into 2013 with what was here at the end of 2012. Maybe you'd like to think that now, but if you were building the team, it would break your heart. The Red Sox's budget is a lot like government spending. If they don't spend, they lose the money the next year, and have to work in order to rebuild it.

 

Two 50-60 win seasons in a row would kill the fanbase, aggravate the players, scare off future free agents, and would make Talksox a really sad and awful place. As it stands now, we atleast have a "Well, if everything lines up just right" scenario. With Loney, Iglesias, Sands, we wouldn't even have that. We already know that those guys suck.

 

 

 

Dempster provides a reliable inning eater. Napoli for 1 year is a bargain-bin signing. Gomes and Ross are spare parts, no big deal. I've discussed this with you a few times before, but Drew, Dempster, Napoli, and Hanrahan could turn into very good trade-bait midseason. Not necessarily all of them, but if a few of them have big seasons and could be turned into young pitching prospects mid-season, who would regret signing them?

[a700hitter]

What would you do? No way you'd go into 2013 with what was here at the end of 2012. Maybe you'd like to think that now, but if you were building the team, it would break your heart. The Red Sox's budget is a lot like government spending. If they don't spend, they lose the money the next year, and have to work in order to rebuild it.

 

Two 50-60 win seasons in a row would kill the fanbase, aggravate the players, scare off future free agents, and would make Talksox a really sad and awful place. As it stands now, we atleast have a "Well, if everything lines up just right" scenario. With Loney, Iglesias, Sands, we wouldn't even have that. We already know that those guys suck.

 

 

 

Dempster provides a reliable inning eater. Napoli for 1 year is a bargain-bin signing. Gomes and Ross are spare parts, no big deal. I've discussed this with you a few times before, but Drew, Dempster, Napoli, and Hanrahan could turn into very good trade-bait midseason. Not necessarily all of them, but if a few of them have big seasons and could be turned into young pitching prospects mid-season, who would regret signing them?

I would have built the pitching first. I would have picked up at least one more solid 30+ start middle of the rotation pitcher. Once I had done that, I would have made the bullpen moves that they made. Only then would I have filled out the roster with Napoli, Ross, Gomes and Drew. We need Victorino for when Ellsbury is gone, so I would have made that move regardless of the others. If I couldn't improve the pitching to the point where I was confident that it would be competitive, I would not have wasted the time and money on the other stuff. I could finish last without them, and at least, I would learn what I had with certain prospects. Yes, I will not deny that it would break my heart to go that route, but finishing last is going to break my heart even more knowing that they wasted money as well as an opportunity for the prospects. I think that there is a very good chance that we finish last, and the guys that they have brought in are not very interesting or exciting, so what was the point?

 

Edit: When I say that I would pick up at least 1 more solid starter, that would be in addition to Dempster. I would have tried to avoid getting Dempster and opted for someone else. Ideally, I'd have picked up 2 pitchers not named Dempster. If Dempster was the second one, I'd live with that.

[BSN07]

What would you do?

 

Welcome to the "ignore" list", plenty of room, VIP lounge is in the back

[a700hitter]

Welcome to the "ignore" list", plenty of room, VIP lounge is in the back

 

Jackass. I gave him a detailed answer before you posted this.