July 2nd @ Oakland

[User Name]

I would imagine that its pretty demoralizing to the batters to see their SP go out and surrender four runs after just 28 pitches' date=' throwing meatballs up there for all 28, while they know that they will have a huge battle on their hands against a quality SP. Gotta get rid of DiceK. [b']Lose any more ground to the Yankees and we should just clean house by the deadline.[/b]

 

Is this for real?

[FredLynn]

Is this for real?

 

No. I think we have a fine team and we should try to keep it intact for at least five more years.

[User Name]

No. I think we have a fine team and we should try to keep it intact for at least five more years.

 

You're obviously an expert of hyperbole, but you know exactly what i mean. They can make a run this year and keep their core, while making adjustments in the offseason.

 

This team's main problem doesn't even seem to be personnel-related, but rather something about the organization itself and their conditioning habits. That's what really needs to change.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Once Nava went cold' date=' the offense went in the shitter. It was bound to happen, he wasnt going to dominate the bigs for the whole yr. You have had plenty of guys playing over their heads to offset the s*** that had been AdGon, Youk (prior), and to a large extent Pedroia this season while also compensating for the losses of Crawford and Ellsbury. They have almost gotten you to the finish line where the 2 big guys are back. But once they do come back, you really cannot expect a guy like Ross to be on pace for nearly 40 homers (if he was healthy) and hit to a .900+OPS. You cannot expect Nava to continue his .400+OBP. You cannot expect Aviles to continue on to 90RBI. It was bound to happen, it just happened on the west coast.[/quote']

 

You also cannot expect Adrian Gonzalez to be a .265 hitter, and hit 12 HR and drive in 85 runs. Pedroia, as we all know by now, goes on torrid hot streaks. He's not going to be a .270 hitter.

 

So while the new guys have stepped up and performed well, the veterans have performed like dogshit. To expect them to continue to perform like dogshit and also expect the guys playing over their heads to return to earth is a bit of a biased and homerish thought. And that doesn't even begin to mention the starters who have underperformed substantially (Lester, Buchholz).

 

I fully, fully expect this offense to be much better in the 2nd half than they were in the 1st half. To only be 0.5 games out of the WC, and 6.5 back in the East with the whole team returning soon is probably the best case scenario based on the injuries.

 

Now, with the emergence of Morales as a potential very good arm in the rotation, Beckett's return as well as Buchholz after the ASB, Bailey's return after the ASB, this team is primed to make a huge push after the ASB.

 

And for what it's worth (not directed at you, Jackso), can we all stop pretending like Carl Crawford isn't going to be an impact player when he returns?? The guy is an absolute stud. I can't wait for him to get back and shut up all the doubters. Again, not directed at the people who support him and understand that career numbers > 1 bad season (See: Dunn, Adam; Ortiz, David; Lee, Cliff, etc).

[Bellhorn04]

'Clean house' is non-specific blather. You could clean house and get much worse.

[a700hitter]

A few comments on last night's game:

• If the Sox can't pick up ground while playing teams like the A's and the Mariners, they have no chance of mounting a challenge for the ALE division title.
  
• Dice K was red herring from day one of this season. They made the fans look forward to his coming back, and we forgot that he has stunk for the 3 prior seasons.
  
• I have to laugh at Remy saying that Gonzo is red hot with his hitting streak.
  
• I have to laugh about Remy's comment that Gonzo has used every part of the field during his hitting streak. But he hasn't hit any outfield walls, and he only hit 1 ball over a wall.
  
• The team and the announcers are starting to make excuses for losing to inferior teams by praising the opponents pitching etc.
  
• The fact that Salty is batting cleanup in front of Gonzo in July demonstrates what a disappointment Gonzo has been even during this so-called hot streak.
  

[FredLynn]

'Clean house' is non-specific blather. You could clean house and get much worse.

 

The point is that SOMETHING must be done to change both the roster and the mentality of the team-unless you like how we have performed for the past three years. If nothing changes then nothing will change. And we will keep the core of overpaid troublemakers and malcontents that has lead us down this path for years to come. I would start by getting rid of Beckett and/or Lester and plan to secure some real pitching during the offseason-while those two #3-4 SP still have some value.

[FredLynn]

You're obviously an expert of hyperbole, but you know exactly what i mean. They can make a run this year and keep their core, while making adjustments in the offseason.

 

This team's main problem doesn't even seem to be personnel-related, but rather something about the organization itself and their conditioning habits. That's what really needs to change.

 

We are not set up for any run this year, if we even get the chance. As I said elsewhere, who is our ace who will match up well against the legitimate ace of the better teams that we would likely face in a road one game playoff?

[Bellhorn04]

We are not set up for any run this year' date=' if we even get the chance. As I said elsewhere, who is our ace who will match up well against the legitimate ace of the better teams that we would likely face in a road one game playoff?[/quote']

 

Beckett is capable of pitching a good game against anybody when he's on.

[FredLynn]

Beckett is capable of pitching a good game against anybody when he's on.

 

Sure. Its possible.

If he were pitching in Anaheim or in Texas against any of those pitchers with a better ERA (and especially against the Rangers' lineup) and you had to put your money on the team you thought would win that game, where would your money be?

Odds are heavily in favor of us losing that game. Very very heavily.

[User Name]

We are not set up for any run this year' date=' if we even get the chance. As I said elsewhere, who is our ace who will match up well against the legitimate ace of the better teams that we would likely face in a road one game playoff?[/quote']

 

Who cares? Anything can happen in a short series. The Sox have beaten Verlander, Weaver, Haren, Lewis et al in mismatchups in the past.

[FredLynn]

Who cares? Anything can happen in a short series. The Sox have beaten Verlander' date=' Weaver, Haren, Lewis et al in mismatchups in the past.[/quote']

 

What it comes down to is your own personal opinion about what you think is the best strategy for the team. Option one is to go for broke this season, try to make the moves we need to either catch the Yankees or obtain a WC position and take our chances in a one game playoff and go from there, hopefully, and Option two is to admit that our chances of both making the playoffs AND advancing past a one game playoff are so slim that its best to plan for the long term (ie next year) and clean house to maximize our chances of having a team with better chances next year or the year after that. If the FO does not get a high quality pitcher then you will know which camp they are in.

[User Name]

What it comes down to is your own personal opinion about what you think is the best strategy for the team. Option one is to go for broke this season' date=' try to make the moves we need to either catch the Yankees or obtain a WC position and take our chances in a one game playoff and go from there, hopefully, and Option two is to admit that our chances of both making the playoffs AND advancing past a one game playoff are so slim that its best to plan for the long term (ie next year) and clean house to maximize our chances of having a team with better chances next year or the year after that. If the FO does not get a high quality pitcher then you will know which camp they are in.[/quote']

 

Not what i think, but what can reasonably happen, and some applications of, well, logic. After a team reaches the playoffs, winning there is a crapshoot. It doesn't matter if it's a one-game playoff or a 5-game series. The problem will be making the playoffs. That's a point we can agree on. With the Orioles and Blue Jays already regressing and the Rays unable to hit the baseball, the importance of acquiring a pitcher or the return to form of some of the pitchers they already have becomes essential. But quit it with the "ill-equipped to handle the playoffs" rhetoric. It's just not accurate.

[FredLynn]

Not what i think' date=' but what can reasonably happen, and some applications of, well, logic. After a team reaches the playoffs, winning there is a crapshoot. It doesn't matter if it's a one-game playoff or a 5-game series. The problem will be making the playoffs. That's a point we can agree on. With the Orioles and Blue Jays already regressing and the Rays unable to hit the baseball, the importance of acquiring a pitcher or the return to form of some of the pitchers they already have becomes essential. But quit it with the "ill-equipped to handle the playoffs" rhetoric. It's just not accurate.[/quote']

 

I agree that making the playoffs is going to be a challenge, but as I said many times, this team, though mediocre, can compete for a playoff berth. Assuming we make the playoffs by obtaining a WC berth and have a one game shootout with another team, one team will be favored and one will be the underdog. Sure, the underdog sometimes wins, but its not exactly a "crapshoot". The odds in that game are not even. In fact, they would be stacked against us, most likely.

[User Name]

I agree that making the playoffs is going to be a challenge' date=' but as I said many times, this team, though mediocre, can compete for a playoff berth. Assuming we make the playoffs by obtaining a WC berth and have a one game shootout with another team, one team will be favored and one will be the underdog. Sure, the underdog sometimes wins, but its not exactly a "crapshoot". The odds in that game are not even. In fact, they would be stacked against us, most likely.[/quote']

 

That depends on who the other team is and how each team is performing. In baseball, not all is as it seems. A hot Lester versus a cold, overworked Weaver or Price may not seem to favor the Sox on paper, but the reality of the way the pitchers are pitching at the moment, their fatigue levels, and the team's overall play during the stretch drive has a lot more to do with winning head-to-head matchups than perceived talent levels. The past five playoffs have teams that have defined conventional wisdom to make a run they weren't supposed to do: 2011 Cardinals, 2010 Giants (who beat a clearly superior Phillies team), 2009 Dodgers (who had Manny and Kemp but little else), and the 2008 Rays who were coming into their own but were a very flawed team.

[FredLynn]

That depends on who the other team is and how each team is performing. In baseball' date=' not all is as it seems. A hot Lester versus a cold, overworked Weaver or Price may not seem to favor the Sox on paper, but the reality of the way the pitchers are pitching at the moment, their fatigue levels, and the team's overall play during the stretch drive has a lot more to do with winning head-to-head matchups than perceived talent levels. The past five playoffs have teams that have defined conventional wisdom to make a run they weren't supposed to do: 2011 Cardinals, 2010 Giants (who beat a clearly superior Phillies team), 2009 Dodgers (who had Manny and Kemp but little else), and the 2008 Rays who were coming into their own but were a very flawed team.[/quote']

 

If there were not a one game WC playoff I would not feel so strongly about this. We are better set up for a series of games where we can hide our lack of an ace. In a one game playoff we will not be the favored team against virtually anyone else. And for good reason. Most other teams' top pitcher is much better than ours.

[User Name]

If there were not a one game WC playoff I would not feel so strongly about this. We are better set up for a series of games where we can hide our lack of an ace. In a one game playoff we will not be the favored team against virtually anyone else. And for good reason. Most other teams' top pitcher is much better than ours.

 

Starting pitching is not the only determining factor for a one-game matchup. Just sayin'.

[BornToRun]

Starting pitching is not the only determining factor for a one-game matchup. Just sayin'.

 

Plus. As far as the playoffs go, there isn't anybody who's performed much better than Josh Beckett. There's your postseason ace right there.

[FredLynn]

Starting pitching is not the only determining factor for a one-game matchup. Just sayin'.

 

Of course we could win that game. All I am saying is that its most likely going to be a road game against either the Rangers or the Angels, and I don't like our chances given that scenario.

[FredLynn]

Plus. As far as the playoffs go' date=' there isn't anybody who's performed much better than Josh Beckett. There's your postseason ace right there.[/quote']

 

He used to be. But in our last two playoff appearances, in the 2008 ALDS his ERA was 7.20; in the 2008 ALCS it was 9.64; and in the 2009 ALDS it was 5.40. This is not the same Beckett of years past.

[BornToRun]

He used to be. But in our last two playoff appearances' date=' in the 2008 ALDS his ERA was 7.20; in the 2008 ALCS it was 9.64; and in the 2009 ALDS it was 5.40. This is not the same Beckett of years past.[/quote']

 

I'm pretty sure he was hurt in 2008 IIRC and 2009 was one hell of a small sample size considering that we got swept in 3 games.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Career ERA in Post Season Play:

 

Lester: 2.57

Beckett: 3.07

Buchholz: 1 game, 5 IP, 2 ER

 

I'm just saying. It's not like we're rolling out a bunch of no names with zero PS experience out there.

 

Plus, it's not ALL about the SP. If we're going up against the Rays, I like Beckett's chances to shut down the Rays more than Price/Shields chances of shutting down a healthy Red Sox team.

 

The 1 game PS is a crapshoot.

[User Name]

Career ERA in Post Season Play:

 

Lester: 2.57

Beckett: 3.07

Buchholz: 1 game, 5 IP, 2 ER

 

I'm just saying. It's not like we're rolling out a bunch of no names with zero PS experience out there.

 

Plus, it's not ALL about the SP. If we're going up against the Rays, I like Beckett's chances to shut down the Rays more than Price/Shields chances of shutting down a healthy Red Sox team.

 

The 1 game PS is a crapshoot.

 

This is not even debatable.

[a700hitter]

The 1 game PS is a crapshoot.

Do we go out and land a big starter as a rental if it will only get us to a 1 game elimination crap shoot? I don't think so, and after this weekend, the division could start slipping out of reach.

[BornToRun]

Do we go out and land a big starter as a rental if it will only get us to a 1 game elimination crap shoot? I don't think so' date=' and after this weekend, the division could start slipping out of reach.[/quote']

 

We're around 6 games out. We're getting ells and cc back and the Yankees just lost two of their top starters. We have 4 games at home against them. Tell me, how is the division going to slip away? We have a perfect opportunity to pick up ground this month and maybe take over 1st place.

[kapsis21]

We're around 6 games out. We're getting ells and cc back and the Yankees just lost two of their top starters. We have 4 games at home against them. Tell me' date=' how is the division going to slip away? We have a perfect opportunity to pick up ground this month and maybe take over 1st place.[/quote']

 

the pitching has to really be lights out for us to take 3 out of 4 and that would only get us 2 games up. and if we only take 2. we are at the same spot.

but i am ready to kick some yankee ass and show then who is their big papi..

[a700hitter]

We're around 6 games out. We're getting ells and cc back and the Yankees just lost two of their top starters. We have 4 games at home against them. Tell me' date=' how is the division going to slip away? We have a perfect opportunity to pick up ground this month and maybe take over 1st place.[/quote']If we drop 3 of 4 this weekend, the division would be slipping away. We will not have Ells or Crawford this weekend.

[BornToRun]

the pitching has to really be lights out for us to take 3 out of 4 and that would only get us 2 games up. and if we only take 2. we are at the same spot.

but i am ready to kick some yankee ass and show then who is their big papi..

 

The Yankees gotta pitch too and they aren't exactly throwing out grade a hurlers themselves. We can handle them. Win the next 2 in Oakland and then go home and clean house vs the skanks.

[BornToRun]

If we drop 3 of 4 this weekend' date=' the division would be slipping away. We will not have Ells or Crawford this weekend.[/quote']

 

What makes you think we're dropping 3 of 4? The Yankees and us are pretty evenly matched right now I'd say and they have to play us in our house without pettite or cc.

[a700hitter]

The Yankees gotta pitch too and they aren't exactly throwing out grade a hurlers themselves. We can handle them. Win the next 2 in Oakland and then go home and clean house vs the skanks.

The Yankees have a power laden line up. We have one legit power hitter right now, and they would be fools to pitch to him.