Peering into the Pitching Garbage Pail with your Pal, Pal

[User Name]

Ofcourse I checked his peripherals. He's not a great option' date=' and if I said that anywhere, I misspoke. The problem is, he's still a helluva a lot better than these other guys[/quote']

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't get anyone. I'm saying they shouldn't get Maholm, because bleh.

 

Harden was garbage after the deadline, Fister would have cost a ton, and Kuroda didn't want to come to Boston. I remember looking at all of the possibilities last year, and the pickings were very slim. Teams almost never find value at the deadline.

 

The Tigers did not give up a ton for Fister. They gave up a lefty with no stamina, a role player, a MiLB 3B who is raw and can't defend, and a PTBNL.

 

I understand that it's hard to get value at the deadline, but there are several different scenarios where the Sox can suceed: Sign Oswalt, one of the dregs steps up, they get a starter mid-season (although it's difficult).

 

No need to despair.....yet.

[a700hitter]

My history with KOTS doesn't warrant the same respect. I have tried.

 

Agree with the rest of your post.

If by tried, you mean that you have taken cheap shot time after time with no substance at all, you would be right.

 

Emmz provides substance to the board in baseball, football, basketball, music and politics. She is very well informed and makes very coherent arguments supporting her position. I don't always agree with her. Right now, we are not in agreement about Eli Manning. She adds substance and challenges people to prove her wrong. She doesn't try to shut down opposing views.

 

You, VA, on the other hand provide almost no substance. Without the insults, cheap shot and use of emoticons, you have added little.

[seabeachfred]

I find this post offensive. Emmz is a well known and respected member of the Talksox community. She has been here for several years and has made thousands of post that have contributed to the growth (and more importantly) the worth of this board. Here is a fact (apparently among many) that you may not be aware of. She is a Twins fan on a Sox board. Here is another fact. She knows far more about professional sports history than you do.

 

Where do you come off chastising her by labeling her a "lady". You are showing your age. Stop with the 1940's think (if you can). She is a woman. But more importantly, she is a person. A distinction that you seem incapable of making. Maybe you should just pop a few Midol and chase them with a shooter of Geritol. While you are at it, grind up some Viagra and mix it with your laxative. Oh, be careful OBs. We would all hate to hear of your demise do to the onset of Toxic Shock.

 

I don't need Midol or Geritol or Viagra and I never need laxatives Spudboy, but I'm sure Emmz appreciates your defense of her just as Pumpie appreciates my defense of him. Frankly, I didn't think that I was that way off but if I was thanks for bringing it to my attention. As for those things you suggested to me, just be sure you don't burn the candle at both ends or yoyu may need them before I do. Anyway, thanks for you reply. Always nice to hear from no matter what the reason because I know you're a square shooter.

[User Name]

Now let's get back to Paul Maholm, third place, Padilla's implosions, and Silva's low-carb diet....

 

And......go!

[Palodios]

The Tigers did not give up a ton for Fister. They gave up a lefty with no stamina, a role player, a MiLB 3B who is raw and can't defend, and a PTBNL.

 

I understand that it's hard to get value at the deadline, but there are several different scenarios where the Sox can suceed: Sign Oswalt, one of the dregs steps up, they get a starter mid-season (although it's difficult).

 

The problem with the trade deadline is that your team doesn't always match up. If a GM sees things he likes in another team's players, and things he doesn't like in your team's players, there isn't much you can do... except significantly overpay. The Red Sox were on a championship drive, and all they needed was one more starter. If Fister would have cost a package similar to the ones the Tigers paid-- they would pulled the trigger.

 

 

I think there were about five different options that would have been at reasonable costs for the Red Sox that they could have done this offseason. I try to think they're not done looking for pitching, but it doesn't seem like anyone is even left on the board and its almost spring.

[ORS]

 

You, VA, on the other hand provide almost no substance. Without the insults, cheap shot and use of emoticons, you have added little.

I know this will only add to your zeal to chase me around the forum and argue with me about everything, but, f*** it, this observation is so ironic I can't let it pass. You just described 90% of your posts.

 

:lol::lol:

:harhar::harhar:

:dunno::thumbdown:thumbsup::D

[User Name]

The problem with the trade deadline is that your team doesn't always match up. If a GM sees things he likes in another team's players' date=' and things he doesn't like in your team's players, there isn't much you can do... except significantly overpay. The Red Sox were on a championship drive, and all they needed was one more starter. If Fister would have cost a package similar to the ones the Tigers paid-- they would pulled the trigger.[/quote']

 

That's speculation though. Fister didn't look like a good fit for the Sox given his fly-ball nature, and no one, even in their wildest dreams, could have predicted he would have a run like the one he had.

 

I'm mentioning him simply because he was an actual option, but the point stands and i don't contend it. It's hard, but not impossible.

 

I think there were about five different options that would have been at reasonable costs for the Red Sox that they could have done this offseason. I try to think they're not done looking for pitching, but it doesn't seem like anyone is even left on the board and its almost spring.

 

They still have options besides Oswalt, even though most of them would be high-risk/high-reward gambles, throw enough s*** at the wall......

[seabeachfred]

Using your logic, Francona lost 10 games. Replacing him with BV means 10 more wins, or no?

 

That's not a sneak attack. It's asking you a question about a point you've harped on endlessly.

 

I think this team is a 93ish win team.

 

Also, I haven't cried over the Sox since 86, which incidentally is still before your fanhood.

 

IN MY OPINION, if Valentine was managing the team last season we would have not only made the playoffs, we might have won the division for no matter what you or anyone else says Francona was a very poor field manager who costs us many games every season with half-ass moves and non moves. He also has a pre-game script which he was loathe to alter even if events in the game warranted it. For your memory, in the 2nd game of the 2008 ALCS he insisted Beckett was going seven innings even though he was getting hit and his control was off and the bullpen was fresh since Dice K had thrown eight innings of shutout ball the game before. I'll have Muggah come out with that list; I know he still has it.

 

93 wins could get us the WC; 96 would get us the division. Why not think big while you're at it. And reminding me of my pre Red Sox fanhood is getting a little old, don't you think?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Was Valentine going to pitch for our team every day? Was he going to throw for Salty when someone was trying to steal a base? Was he going to hit for everyone after Ortiz? Valentine wouldn't have made much of a difference.

[a700hitter]

I know this will only add to your zeal to chase me around the forum and argue with me about everything, but, f*** it, this observation is so ironic I can't let it pass. You just described 90% of your posts.

 

:lol::lol:

:harhar::harhar:

:dunno::thumbdown:thumbsup::D

I'll let this speak for itself.

 

I don't chase anyone around this forum. I am always here. I don't jump in in the middle of threads. I'm not the hit and run expert with the wise crack remarks. I am there at the start of the thread if I don't start it myself.

 

From one blowhard to another, a good man always knows his limitations.

[seabeachfred]

No' date=' you're not being sexist, and if you were, I would not care. But you obviously don't have respect for me, or you'd have recognized that I was contributive both in that moment and over the past year or two. Whether it's because I'm not over half of a century old, I dont got hangers between the legs or any other reason is a non-issue.[/quote']

 

Well thank you Emmz on the non-sexist part because I meant nothing even remotely meaning to be male chauvinistic, and I do have respect for you because you stood up to me and gave me the what-all. Of course, to be honest, I think a couple of those who accused me of it were just trying to earn points from you by climbing over me but that's cool. My approach should have been better even though I didn't think it was that offensive.

 

I'm also more than a half-century old; try 71. I really haven't read too many of your posts because I only just back on this board last October. Hopefully we will have friendlier exchanges from here on in. BTW, you have me beat in your Red Sox fandom by one year, as my friend MVP 78 will gladly remind you and me of.;););)

[seabeachfred]

If by tried, you mean that you have taken cheap shot time after time with no substance at all, you would be right.

 

Emmz provides substance to the board in baseball, football, basketball, music and politics. She is very well informed and makes very coherent arguments supporting her position. I don't always agree with her. Right now, we are not in agreement about Eli Manning. She adds substance and challenges people to prove her wrong. She doesn't try to shut down opposing views.

 

You, VA, on the other hand provide almost no substance. Without the insults, cheap shot and use of emoticons, you have added little.

 

For the record 700, I have tucked in my horns and tried to make peace with Emmz. I got it from many people that she is a stand up person and fan and I could have been out of line. I will have to follow her posts a lot more carefully from here on in. OTOH, did you notice how your "friend" jumped in the argument with her WA HOOS AND SMILIES and the usual supply of emoticons while added nothing to the dialogue? Yes you did!!!!

[FredLynn]

IN MY OPINION, if Valentine was managing the team last season we would have not only made the playoffs, we might have won the division for no matter what you or anyone else says Francona was a very poor field manager who costs us many games every season with half-ass moves and non moves. He also has a pre-game script which he was loathe to alter even if events in the game warranted it. For your memory, in the 2nd game of the 2008 ALCS he insisted Beckett was going seven innings even though he was getting hit and his control was off and the bullpen was fresh since Dice K had thrown eight innings of shutout ball the game before. I'll have Muggah come out with that list; I know he still has it.

 

93 wins could get us the WC; 96 would get us the division. Why not think big while you're at it. And reminding me of my pre Red Sox fanhood is getting a little old, don't you think?

 

And reminding me of my pre Red Sox fanhood is getting a little old, don't you think?

 

Seems a lot of people have that problem Fred. You zeal quotient as a Sox fan is measured by some by the number of years that you have been on board with the team.

Seems absurd to me.

[a700hitter]

For the record 700' date=' I have tucked in my horns and tried to make peace with Emmz. I got it from many people that she is a stand up person and fan and I could have been out of line. I will have to follow her posts a lot more carefully from here on in. OTOH, did you notice how your "friend" jumped in the argument with her WA HOOS AND SMILIES and the usual supply of emoticons while added nothing to the dialogue? Yes you did!!!![/quote']Emmz will disagree with you vigorously. I have been on the other side of that frequently, but when she brings it, she backs it up with substance. I've seen people get pretty contentious with her, but she will not look to censor you or shut you down like others might try to do. She'll call us geezers etc. but there is usually humor and not disrespect intended. In some ways I think she relates to us geezers better than she does with people of her generation.

[mvp 78]

And reminding me of my pre Red Sox fanhood is getting a little old' date=' don't you think?[/i']

 

Seems a lot of people have that problem Fred. You zeal quotient as a Sox fan is measured by some by the number of years that you have been on board with the team.

Seems absurd to me.

 

Not really as SBF said that I would "weep" if it was proven that Francona lost games, because somehow I care more about a former manager than a baseball team I've followed my whole life. As I recall, this is someone who became a fan when he was 59 because of Fenway. He's stated that he teared up when given a vial of Fenway dirt. To me, that's just sad.

 

He can say whatever he wants about the team, but talking about polyannas and criticizing fans who actually have been loyal to the team (not because of some pinkhattedness craze over the aura of Fenway) is just ripe for being put in his place. He's a johnny-come-lately (or pink hat) who thinks other fans are always in the wrong.

 

To put it in perspective, 2/3rds of SBF's fanhood has been during Francona managed years. His vendetta against Tito is misguided. He should be thankful that his pinkhatdom came with 2 championships, rather than worry about another fan.

[jacksonianmarch]

Can you guys just cyber bang and get the angst out? You're all acting like teenagers. Spring is 5 weeks away, and pitchers and catchers report in 11 days. Hope springs eternal, as should the renewed attitudes.

[BSN07]

Can you guys just cyber bang and get the angst out? You're all acting like teenagers. Spring is 5 weeks away' date=' and pitchers and catchers report in 11 days. Hope springs eternal, as should the renewed attitudes.[/quote']

 

I've never seen you so optimistic

[VA Sox Fan]

I know this will only add to your zeal to chase me around the forum and argue with me about everything, but, f*** it, this observation is so ironic I can't let it pass. You just described 90% of your posts.

 

:lol::lol:

:harhar::harhar:

:dunno::thumbdown:thumbsup::D

 

My Hero!

[yeszir]

I'm sorry I thought this was a thread about pitching, not a thread for 50 year olds to act like 12 year olds. What the hell is wrong with you people. Imagine explaining to your children how stupid you act on the internet. Think about it.

[SoxSport]

Yeah, we're all a bunch of idiots wasting our abilities here. If you don't have anything better to do, you are in trouble.

[FredLynn]

Not really as SBF said that I would "weep" if it was proven that Francona lost games, because somehow I care more about a former manager than a baseball team I've followed my whole life. As I recall, this is someone who became a fan when he was 59 because of Fenway. He's stated that he teared up when given a vial of Fenway dirt. To me, that's just sad.

 

He can say whatever he wants about the team, but talking about polyannas and criticizing fans who actually have been loyal to the team (not because of some pinkhattedness craze over the aura of Fenway) is just ripe for being put in his place. He's a johnny-come-lately (or pink hat) who thinks other fans are always in the wrong.

 

To put it in perspective, 2/3rds of SBF's fanhood has been during Francona managed years. His vendetta against Tito is misguided. He should be thankful that his pinkhatdom came with 2 championships, rather than worry about another fan.

 

Obviously you are of the opinion that how much of a fan you are can be measured in the number of years you have been following the team. I think that is ridiculous. Fred follows the team around the country to take in games. Do you? I don't, and I have been a Sox fan since the late 1950s. I do not consider myself to be a better fan of the team than SBF, and you shouldn't either.

[FredLynn]

I'm sorry I thought this was a thread about pitching' date=' not a thread for 50 year olds to act like 12 year olds. What the hell is wrong with you people. Imagine explaining to your children how stupid you act on the internet. Think about it.[/quote']

 

HAHAHAHA

Yup, its true.

Boredom is the root of all this. But soon the players will be reporting to camp, and soon after that the exhibition games will begin and the discussion should turn to who is performing and who is not.

Let the games begin.............

[VA Sox Fan]

I'm sorry I thought this was a thread about pitching' date=' not a thread for 50 year olds to act like 12 year olds. What the hell is wrong with you people. Imagine explaining to your children how stupid you act on the internet. Think about it.[/quote']

 

Hey, I'm not 50 yet...dammit!

 

Sorry yeszir

[Palodios]

Throw enough s*** at the wall......

 

This is something I've mentioned a few times previously. I would be kind of interested to see the Red Sox sign a handful more garbage pitchers. There are a good number of low-risk guys out there. Brandon Web, Jon Garland, Scott Kazmir, Rich Harden and Javier Vazquez have a very good chance of being complete garbage in 2012, but on a 500k deal, what do they have to lose at this point?

[User Name]

This is something I've mentioned a few times previously. I would be kind of interested to see the Red Sox sign a handful more garbage pitchers. There are a good number of low-risk guys out there. Brandon Web' date=' Jon Garland, Scott Kazmir, Rich Harden and Javier Vazquez have a very good chance of being complete garbage in 2012, but on a 500k deal, what do they have to lose at this point?[/quote']

 

Vasquez is retiring. Kazmir has nothing.

 

Webb, Harden and Garland sound like intriguing possibilities.

[Palodios]

Vasquez is retiring. Kazmir has nothing.

 

Webb, Harden and Garland sound like intriguing possibilities.

 

Kazmir turned 28 years old last week. I'm referring to a search for warm bodies at this point:lol:

[User Name]

Kazmir turned 28 years old last week. I'm referring to a search for warm bodies at this point:lol:

 

He just sucks so bad though. It transcends age. I'd say Chris Young, but he'd get injured signing the contract.

[Palodios]

Back to Garland... if he can healthy, he's probably better than most of the options the Red Sox are looking at. 104 ERA+ for his career, and he averaged 200+ innings from 2002-2010. He's only 32, and he average a 4.42 ERA when he was in the AL.

[seabeachfred]

Emmz will disagree with you vigorously. I have been on the other side of that frequently' date=' but when she brings it, she backs it up with substance. I've seen people get pretty contentious with her, but she will not look to censor you or shut you down like others might try to do. She'll call us geezers etc. but there is usually humor and not disrespect intended. In some ways I think she relates to us geezers better than she does with people of her generation.[/quote']

 

She refers to me as Pops. Fine with me. What the hell; am I going to try and hide my age? Thanks for the update on Emmz. Looking forward to better exchanges with her. Besides, she's a Midwest girl and I have been happily married to one for 41 years.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[seabeachfred]

I'm sorry I thought this was a thread about pitching' date=' not a thread for 50 year olds to act like 12 year olds. What the hell is wrong with you people. Imagine explaining to your children how stupid you act on the internet. Think about it.[/quote']

 

Well since you made me 21 years younger than I really am I sincerely thank you and promise to stand down. I think we are all bored and waiting to get ST underway so we have something to really discuss. I just sent a broadside to MVP in retaliation for some lousy remarks he made about me but in good faith I will now delete it.

 

Now you use your influence and go out and get us that pitcher we need.