Peering into the Pitching Garbage Pail with your Pal, Pal

[SoxSport]

Considering they had lousy luck with their pitching last year--plus they were also pretty inept in their choices, except for Aceves--they are bound to get lucky this year with one or two surprises.

 

I think they should be in the top 5 AL teams. If not, they underachieved again.

[User Name]

I said COMPETE for a playoff spot' date=' not be awarded one. We will COMPETE for second place, most likely, and COMPETE for a spot in October. Then we will be eliminated rapidly.[/quote']

 

This is BS. The roster as currently constructed is much more suited to compete in a short series than a marathon season. Not to mention the volatile nature of the playoffs.

 

Sorry you are having such a hard time with this concept. After all' date=' it does require some actual thinking, a capacity you obviously lack.[/quote']

 

Aren't you the guy talking about personal attacks meaning a "weak argument"? Practice what you preach.

[seabeachfred]

So you're projecting a 100 win season then? Or do you want to adjust your Francona foibles comment?

 

Nice sneak attack MVP since I don't have those games in front of me, but I will be sure to let Muggah know because he listed them last season and had nine by the middle of August. I will be certain to let him let y ou know which games they were so you could look them up yourself and weep since obviously you're a Franconian at heart.

 

As for predictions I think with a new medical staff and a manager that will not cost us games but may even steal a few for us we could better last year's record and maybe do better if these things occur.

 

1. Our "Big Three" pitchers must go deeper into games and win big, about 55 games between them.

 

2. Our bullpen has to be deep enough and effective enough to staunch whatever bleeding accrues from spots 4 and 5 and occasional mishaps by the three others.

 

3. A full comeback by Crawford, a return to form by Youkilis and the rest of the offense hitting on nearly all of their cylinders. IOW, not having three players having off years as we did the last two seasons.

 

Now let me hear what you have to say about our chances instead of sitting on the sidelines.

[seabeachfred]

Unsubstantial cliche. Trying to dispute the definition you just posted. LAWL. All I can really say.

 

With all due respect madam, all you can really say is a lot of nothing of substance. Between what passes for humor or sarcasm I have yet to read one of your posts where you actually contribute an opinion to what the Red Sox can do to better themselves or offer give an opinion with relation to the team. Sometimes you ladies on these Red Sox boards can really be pills in this regard. Looking forward to seeing you tell us how you see the Red Sox shaping up this season and why. That would be very refreshing.

[User Name]

Holy s*** Fred, what the f*** does that even mean? "Ladies on these Red Sox boards?" GTFO.

 

She's posted pretty informed opinions about the Red Sox before, and i don't blame her for being pissed at the cocktail of unmitigated negativity around this site.

[seabeachfred]

Holy s*** Fred, what the f*** does that even mean? "Ladies on these Red Sox boards?" GTFO.

 

She's posted pretty informed opinions about the Red Sox before, and i don't blame her for being pissed at the cocktail of unmitigated negativity around this site.

 

You know damn well what it means but since you are feigning ignorance let me put some new colors in your paintbox. We have a couple of ladies on this board whose stock in trade is to criticize, whine,and rail when someone posts something that even hints at a whiff of doubt or pessimism at what's going on with the Red Sox. They write nothing of substance except snide remarks, wha hoo , ya hoo or something similar. What Pumpsie wrote made a lot of sense and if she disagreed with it she should have said why and gave her take on it. Instead we got another dose of meaningless gibberish. 700 Hitter remarked about this the other day and while they have as much right to post as anyone else at least they should be able to defend what they find wrong with what someone else posts instead of silly remarks and sarcastic jabs.

[User Name]

You know damn well what it means but since you are feigning ignorance let me put some new colors in your paintbox. We have a couple of ladies on this board whose stock in trade is to criticize' date=' whine,and rail when someone posts something that even hints at a whiff of doubt or pessimism at what's going on with the Red Sox. They write nothing of substance except snide remarks, wha hoo , ya hoo or something similar. What Pumpsie wrote made a lot of sense and if she disagreed with it she should have said why and gave her take on it. Instead we got another dose of meaningless gibberish. 700 Hitter remarked about this the other day and while they have as much right to post as anyone else at least they should be able to defend what they find wrong with what someone else posts instead of silly remarks and sarcastic jabs.[/quote']

 

Lemme put some new colors in your paintbox too: Stop stirring s***. She wasn't attacking you, and she is, as you always say "entitled to her opinion". No need to make it about them being women or the personal attack.

 

You know better.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Holy s*** Fred, what the f*** does that even mean? "Ladies on these Red Sox boards?" GTFO.

 

She's posted pretty informed opinions about the Red Sox before, and i don't blame her for being pissed at the cocktail of unmitigated negativity around this site.

 

He just put himself in a bad bad situation.

[FredLynn]

This is BS. The roster as currently constructed is much more suited to compete in a short series than a marathon season. Not to mention the volatile nature of the playoffs.

 

 

 

Aren't you the guy talking about personal attacks meaning a "weak argument"? Practice what you preach.

 

I will practice what I like. I do not grant you the perceived right you seem to have to monitor and correct how I address other posters here....for starters.

Second, I find the persistent use of laughing at my posts to be a personal insult, and responded in kind.

[User Name]

You are free to be the H word then. Case dismissed.

[FredLynn]

This is BS. The roster as currently constructed is much more suited to compete in a short series than a marathon season. Not to mention the volatile nature of the playoffs.

 

Taken a look at our starting rotation recently? Do you expect that the only three starters we have, none of which is an ace, by the way, will ALL remain healthy by playoff time? One drops out or pitches hurt and who is left? Taken a look at our bullpen recently? I see Jenks, Albers, a couple of guys who replaced some who left that are untested in the ALE....and I see a pitching staff that is certainly no better than last year, a staff that finished NINTH in overall ERA.

Still like our chances?

[seabeachfred]

He just put himself in a bad bad situation.

 

Maybe, maybe not, but I get tired of people criticising other posters with rude and sarcastic remarks and not being able to say why what was posted was wrong. Everyone has the right to criticize someone else but they should also be able to say why they disagreed and maybe offer some insight of their own on the subject at hand. Some of us have kept quiet about this for some time and this has nothing to do with gender either except I noticed my pals Pumpsie and Muggah were getting panned unfairly the same way 700 and I were getting it from some other lady.

 

Either ignore what we post or be able to stand tall and say why we are off in our opinions. We're all adults and Red Sox fans here. We should all respect one another without resorting to sarcasm and insults.

[FredLynn]

You are free to be the H word then. Case dismissed.

 

Gee thanks. I don't know how I could go on without your permission.

[User Name]

This is BS. The roster as currently constructed is much more suited to compete in a short series than a marathon season. Not to mention the volatile nature of the playoffs.

 

Taken a look at our starting rotation recently? Do you expect that the only three starters we have, none of which is an ace, by the way, will ALL remain healthy by playoff time? One drops out or pitches hurt and who is left? Taken a look at our bullpen recently? I see Jenks, Albers, a couple of guys who replaced some who left that are untested in the ALE....and I see a pitching staff that is certainly no better than last year, a staff that finished NINTH in overall ERA.

Still like our chances?

 

Conjecture. Your whole argument is based on the expectation that some of the starters will be injured come playoff time.

 

And the BP has more than enough options.

[User Name]

Maybe, maybe not, but I get tired of people criticising other posters with rude and sarcastic remarks and not being able to say why what was posted was wrong. Everyone has the right to criticize someone else but they should also be able to say why they disagreed and maybe offer some insight of their own on the subject at hand. Some of us have kept quiet about this for some time and this has nothing to do with gender either except I noticed my pals Pumpsie and Muggah were getting panned unfairly the same way 700 and I were getting it from some other lady.

 

Either ignore what we post or be able to stand tall and say why we are off in our opinions. We're all adults and Red Sox fans here. We should all respect one another without resorting to sarcasm and insults.

 

So the answer to that is a personal attack towards someone who wasn't talking to you to begin with? Fred, you know better.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

This is BS. The roster as currently constructed is much more suited to compete in a short series than a marathon season. Not to mention the volatile nature of the playoffs.

 

Taken a look at our starting rotation recently? Do you expect that the only three starters we have, none of which is an ace, by the way, will ALL remain healthy by playoff time? One drops out or pitches hurt and who is left? Taken a look at our bullpen recently? I see Jenks, Albers, a couple of guys who replaced some who left that are untested in the ALE....and I see a pitching staff that is certainly no better than last year, a staff that finished NINTH in overall ERA.

Still like our chances?

 

I hate pessimist like you. Our rotation basically looks the same minus 2 f***ing terrible back end pitchers(Dice-K and Lackey). Losing them can do no harm. Lester being an ace is debatable. As a matter of fact Beckett-Buchholz-Lester all have potential to be aces. Give me a break on the bullpen. What do you people expect from this team? You want all-star caliber players in every spot?

[User Name]

Lester has had several ace seasons, Beckett is coming off one, and Bucholz has the potential. But hey, no aces.

[FredLynn]

Conjecture. Your whole argument is based on the expectation that some of the starters will be injured come playoff time.

 

And the BP has more than enough options.

 

Its a good bet that one of our three SP will not be at 100% by year's end. Even if they are all healthy and have been healthy all year, they are all we have. No one knows how Bard will do as our #5; we don't even have a #4. Aceves I would expect to be effective out of the pen. Who else do you trust on our current pitching staff? Jenks? Albers? Morales? Doubront? Bowden?

Key concept: we did not improve from last year and we finished ninth in ERA. We may compete for second place; its unlikely we can finish with a ring as things now stand.

[FredLynn]

I hate pessimist like you. Our rotation basically looks the same minus 2 f***ing terrible back end pitchers(Dice-K and Lackey). Losing them can do no harm. Lester being an ace is debatable. As a matter of fact Beckett-Buchholz-Lester all have potential to be aces. Give me a break on the bullpen. What do you people expect from this team? You want all-star caliber players in every spot?

 

I expect better pitching if I expect to compete for a ring. Position in the AL ERA the last three years: 9th, 9th, 7th. Why on earth would anyone expect us to be better this year??

[Palodios]

I hate pessimist like you. Our rotation basically looks the same minus 2 f***ing terrible back end pitchers(Dice-K and Lackey). Losing them can do no harm. Lester being an ace is debatable. As a matter of fact Beckett-Buchholz-Lester all have potential to be aces. Give me a break on the bullpen. What do you people expect from this team? You want all-star caliber players in every spot?

 

The biggest problem here is that every single one of the back-end options will be low on innings.

 

Bard/Aceves/Tazawa/Wilson/Mortensen/Doubront will all definitely stop at 5-6 innings most nights because they're young arms that need to have inning limits. Padilla/Cook/Maine haven't pitched a full season in years, and Miller has never pitched more than 100 innings. Dice-k is who he is. Even Buchholz will be limited in pitch counts.

 

Which means more innings for the bullpen. Bailey/Melacon/Aceves are good pitchers, but they can't pitch the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th inning every night.

 

Essentially here is what is going to happen in order for this pitching staff to do well:

 

Beckett stays healthy/effective

Lester stays healthy/effective

Buchholz stays healthy/effective

Bailey stays healthy/effective and pitches enough innings.

Melancon stays healthy and adjusts to the AL East just fine.

Aceves stays healthy/effective and or transitions to the pen

Bard transitions to the rotation well.

2 pitchers from the field provides major league quality innings

 

If all of the above happens, two pitchers from the field needs to step up. For every one of those things that doesn't go right, another pitcher from the field will need to step up.

 

There are going to be atleast two guys who fill in those innings. But this is the most injury-prone team in the majors, and has been for two years. If Bailey and Buchholz goes down, where is this team?

[User Name]

The 4 and 5 spots are addition by subtraction, however, this is inconsequential to the case in point here:

 

Playoffs.

 

In the playoffs, they need three starters. That would place Aceves and Bard back, making the pen a force to be reckoned with. The top three for the Sox is phenomenal and so would be the playoffs bullpen.

 

I understand that you simply cannot be objective on the subject and continue to hang your hat on "last year's ERA", but that really doesn't matter when assessing potential playoff pitching.

[FredLynn]

I hate pessimist like you. Our rotation basically looks the same minus 2 f***ing terrible back end pitchers(Dice-K and Lackey). Losing them can do no harm. Lester being an ace is debatable. As a matter of fact Beckett-Buchholz-Lester all have potential to be aces. Give me a break on the bullpen. What do you people expect from this team? You want all-star caliber players in every spot?

 

Oh-I could not care less if you "hate pessimists like me". Face reality once in a while, eh?

[Spudboy]

Looking objectively: 2011 - historic collapse, Lackey was worst pitcher in Sox history, only miss playoffs by one game

 

2012 - Virtually the same roster except for Scutaro, 4th and 5th starters will be better than last year (at the very least no worse)

 

Objective conclusion - playoff contention

 

Yup.

 

I think there will be run on tampons by what I have been reading here for the past 8 or so weeks.

[User Name]

Yup.

 

I think there will be run on tampons by what I have been reading here for the past 8 or so weeks.

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Funny guy aren't ya?

[VA Sox Fan]

Yup.

 

I think there will be run on tampons by what I have been reading here for the past 8 or so weeks.

 

LMAO!! :lol:

 

But, personally, I don't need them anymore because The King of TalkSox decided that I am menopausal :lol:

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Oh-I could not care less if you "hate pessimists like me". Face reality once in a while' date=' eh?[/quote']

 

Reality? You swear this team downgraded so much. MVP said it best in his last post. We only missed the playoffs by 1 game. Why people are throwing the white flag before the season stars I don't know. At least let the season play happen and see what happens from there.

[Emmz]

With all due respect madam' date=' all you can really say is a lot of nothing of substance. Between what passes for humor or sarcasm I have yet to read one of your posts where you actually contribute an opinion to what the Red Sox can do to better themselves or offer give an opinion with relation to the team. Sometimes you ladies on these Red Sox boards can really be pills in this regard. Looking forward to seeing you tell us how you see the Red Sox shaping up this season and why. That would be very refreshing.[/quote']

 

Even the King of Talksox recognizes me as a contributive, well-informed poster. I just have low tolerance for ignorance, and cant be bothered to split hairs with people who see the glass as half empty at all times, and view themselves as realists. I know your ass still stings from when I told you your supposed insider knowledge was a crock of s***, but you're actually the one who's being non-contributive this time. At least what I said was applicable to the discussion. You, on the other hand, are just blathering.

 

Its never too late to learn some respect for women and whippersnappers, pops.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

The biggest problem here is that every single one of the back-end options will be low on innings.

 

Bard/Aceves/Tazawa/Wilson/Mortensen/Doubront will all definitely stop at 5-6 innings most nights because they're young arms that need to have inning limits. Padilla/Cook/Maine haven't pitched a full season in years, and Miller has never pitched more than 100 innings. Dice-k is who he is. Even Buchholz will be limited in pitch counts.

 

Which means more innings for the bullpen. Bailey/Melacon/Aceves are good pitchers, but they can't pitch the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th inning every night.

 

Essentially here is what is going to happen in order for this pitching staff to do well:

 

Beckett stays healthy/effective

Lester stays healthy/effective

Buchholz stays healthy/effective

Bailey stays healthy/effective and pitches enough innings.

Melancon stays healthy and adjusts to the AL East just fine.

Aceves stays healthy/effective and or transitions to the pen

Bard transitions to the rotation well.

2 pitchers from the field provides major league quality innings

 

If all of the above happens, two pitchers from the field needs to step up. For every one of those things that doesn't go right, another pitcher from the field will need to step up.

 

There are going to be atleast two guys who fill in those innings. But this is the most injury-prone team in the majors, and has been for two years. If Bailey and Buchholz goes down, where is this team?

 

In other words, have our pitchers stay healthy and we'll be successful. Isn't that pretty much the same thing for every other MLB team?

[User Name]

In other words' date=' have our pitchers stay healthy and we'll be successful. Isn't that pretty much the same thing for every other MLB team?[/quote']

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Palodios]

In other words' date=' have our pitchers stay healthy and we'll be successful. Isn't that pretty much the same thing for every other MLB team?[/quote']

 

No. What I'm saying is that the Red Sox have built their team around guys that won't make it past the 6th inning... all while losing 2-3 of their best bullpen guys.

 

If the Red Sox move forward with the group they have, they're going to be relying solely on luck. Instead of building a pitching staff, and adding depth, the FO has built depth and wants to use it for their pitching staff immediately.