Red Sox to send Scutaro to the Rockies

[a700hitter]

We have no idea what they're going to do. They could very well go off and trade a bunch of prospects for HanRam and Anibal Sanchez.

 

I think Cherry has something up his sleeve, and it's going to blow some minds.

We are all hoping this is the case, but there is no indication that anything like this will happen. The Marlins are trying to build at this point, not dismantle. I realize that you were just using the Marlins as an example, but we can rule them out.

[iortiz]

Not ready.

 

I'd prefer give him a shot or give him the opportunity to share the load with someone but you would have brought the SP.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The arbitrators don't predict new market values like falling markets for Ortiz and Oswalt. They make their decisions based on passed markets.

 

There has never been a $16mm DH.

 

If they make their decision based on past markets, then they will look at Vlad.

 

2010: Hit .300/.345/.496 with 29 HR, 115 RBI for Texas.

 

2011: Signed a contract with BAL for 1 year/$8mm.

 

There are plenty of comparable DH's (Napoli, Vlad), and none of them have even sniffed $12mm, much less $16mm.

[Palodios]

The arbitrators don't predict new market values like falling markets for Ortiz and Oswalt. They make their decisions based on passed markets.

 

Can you clarify this? I've been looking a long time to find players to compare Ortiz to, and the closest contracts are all in the 12 million dollar range or lower.

[a700hitter]

Can you clarify this? I've been looking a long time to find players to compare Ortiz to' date=' and the closest contracts are all in the 12 million dollar range or lower.[/quote']You are not finding players with Ortiz service time and production making more than $12 million?

[Palodios]

You are not finding players with Ortiz service time and production making more than $12 million?

 

Not any DHs, no. Once again, please clarify.

[Elktonnick]

How many times did we hear this in 2009 and 2010??

 

And then what did he do in 2011?

 

I'm just saying, I'm not concerned about his production next year.

 

Yes but at some point age catches up with everyone.

My point is that one year maybe because he has an incentive. Two years no incentive the first year.

[a700hitter]

Not any DHs' date=' no. Once again, please clarify.[/quote']They are not going to limit their comps to DHs, because, as I explained in my prior post, there are no dedicated DHs with Ortiz production (.953 OPS). The arbitrator will look beyond DH.

[SoxFanForsyth]

They are not going to limit their comps to DHs' date=' because, as I explained in my prior post, there are no dedicated DHs with Ortiz production (.953 OPS). The arbitrator will look beyond DH.[/quote']

 

If anything, Ortiz's inability to play defense will weaken his case.

[User Name]

Yes I knew!!!!! Pumpsie, Elk, Muggah, Me, and I believe 700, Sox Sport and Iortiz believed he would accept arbitration. To many of us it was a no brainer. Anyone who could read the tea leaves knew no team was going to offer him the kind of money he earned last season. Remember Vlad Guerrero? That was going to be the going rate after the disastrous contract the White Sox handed out to a guy who hit under 200. So yes, I knew for a near certainty that he would accept it---and I said so right here. As for that invitation, whether it was issued as and the writer claimed or as you say not, the fact is the invitation is there for Varitek to go to ST.

 

Aside from all that though. You have become a very nasty person around here. You rail and get personal when y ou disagree with someone who disagrees with you. None of us are know it alls and that includes you. I think you would be better served without going over the edge with people you disagree with. I may make fun of Cherington, Lucchino and Henry but accept for one misguided barb at VA I have never felt the need or the urge to tear into a fellow poster on this board. You ought to do the same.

 

Now let's get on and talk Red Sox baseball, ok?

 

Well you certainly think you're a know-it-all. "Anyone who could read the tea leaves". So everyone else is ignorant?

 

And i'm nasty.....

 

Anyways, there was a market for Ortiz (Baltimore and Seattle) and the Red Sox did offer him 2/18 before offering arb, which is what a700 says he would have taken.....and he didn't.

 

So the assumption is incorrect.

[Palodios]

They are not going to limit their comps to DHs' date=' because, as I explained in my prior post, there are no dedicated DHs with Ortiz production (.953 OPS). The arbitrator will look beyond DH.[/quote']

 

Clarify, who are you comparing his production to?

[User Name]

Clarify' date=' who are you comparing his production to?[/quote']

 

Hideki Matsui, Vladimir Guerrero, Travis Hafner and Jim Thome are among the names who can be considered "dedicated DH's".

[SoxFanForsyth]

Matsui: 4.25mm

Vlad: 8mm

Hafner: 13mm

Thome: 1.5mm

 

Hafner is incredibly overpaid. Ortiz came in way too high. If he came in at $14mm, or even $14.5mm, he probably could have won. But at $16mm, he screwed himself.

[v2freak]

I liked Scutaro a lot. He was probably the best hitting SS the Sox have had in recent history unless I'm forgetting someone major. I really do hope the Sox get one more proven starting pitcher. But I like them stockpiling guys that can fill that last spot.

[seabeachfred]

That's right Fred. Anyone can probably go back on this thread and check' date=' but yes I thought he would have to be a fool not to accept the arbitration, and I never thought Ortiz was a fool. As long as he or his agent could do fairly simple math, it was a no-brainer that he would accept the arbitration. I really can't imagine what the FO was thinking. They make mistakes like everyone else. This was a whopper. There was no hidden strategy that has not been made public or that we are just too unsophisticated to understand. They simply blew it.[/quote']

 

You're not going to get that young man to admit that he is wrong on anything. Apparently he agreed with his man Cherington that Ortiz would not accept arbitration, but let's face it, it didn't take much in the way of gray matter to know Papi was going to say yes. Perhaps that is why User is angry because he didn't see it and thought like Cherington Ortiz would pass it up. Well nothing to keep arguing about; it's a waste of time anyway. We all know it was a mistake on Cherington's part and we just have to hope that the decision doesn't burn us from getting that pitcher we need.

[User Name]

See, here's the point. None of us knows what was the scenario that prompted them to offer Ortiz arb.

[a700hitter]

Matsui: 4.25mm

Vlad: 8mm

Hafner: 13mm

Thome: 1.5mm

 

Hafner is incredibly overpaid. Ortiz came in way too high. If he came in at $14mm, or even $14.5mm, he probably could have won. But at $16mm, he screwed himself.

He might have screwed himself, because the arbitrator would have to come in at $15 million for Ortiz figure of $16.5 to be closer, but that being said, the arbitration process does produce some anomalous results. I still wouldn't be shocked if he won.

[SoxSport]

If they didn't offer him arbitration' date=' they could have had the $12.5 to redeploy for other needs or he would have fallen into their lap at the end for $9-10 million-- more in line with his market value. BTW -- don't be surprised if he wins the arbitration.[/quote']

 

Good question for one of those Globe guys to ask Ben.

 

The arb process is inflationary, but not by that much.

[User Name]

It would've cost close to the amount paid to Ortiz this year to replace his lost production.

 

Funny thing is, had they let Ortiz go, since they want Lavarnway to get prepped to catch, people would complain about the "Hole" at DH. Can't have it both ways.

[iortiz]

David has a better bat than Scu, no doubt about it... But looking in retrospective and if you had asked me I would have preferred letting walk Ortiz and Keep Scu, regardless Ortiz will cost u likely the double and Scu can help u in the field as well. Also, you have Lav who could have helped you at the DH and could have shared the load with somebody else (like Aviles).

[jung]

I will lose faith in the Arbitration system if Ortiz wins at $16M. However that would be justice. The Sox will deserve what they get if that happens.

[RedSoxFan84]

Damnit... the Sox front-office really needs to focus and pay more attention when reading emails. I told them which pitcher they should get if they insist on trading Scutaro. They got the first name right at least, but they need to read the whole email. I said "KERSHAW" for crying out loud!

[redsoxfan3]

Damnit... the Sox front-office really needs to focus and pay more attention when reading emails. I told them which pitcher they should get if they insist on trading Scutaro. They got the first name right at least' date=' but they need to read the whole email. I said "KERSHAW" for crying out loud![/quote']

 

haha, Kershaw for Scutaro? I would take that anyday of the week. Only if...miracles like that could happen.

 

I am patiently waiting for this headline on MLBTR, "Red Sox to Sign Roy Oswalt."

[RedSoxFan84]

Yeah, if only we could land a guy like Kershaw for Scutaro. If the Dodgers agreed to that deal, I honestly would consider throwing in an arm or leg just to sweeten the deal for them. I too am hoping for a "Red Sox sign Oswalt" headline too. I signed up as a Sox fan at the BleacherReport website and I get an update on my phone whenever there is a new Red Sox-related headline. It's 2:08am here at the moment and I'm about to go to sleep, but I would be more than happy to be woken up in the middle of the night by a beeping phone with news of an Oswalt signing.

[a700hitter]

I will lose faith in the Arbitration system if Ortiz wins at $16M. However that would be justice. The Sox will deserve what they get if that happens.

You have faith in the arbitration system?

[TedWilliams101]

We have to pick up some bench players' date=' either IF or OF or both.[/quote']

 

Half our opening day roster might be bench players. I'm really feeling like we are playing for 3rd in the division right now which may as well be not playing at all as far as I'm concerned...

[SoxSport]

There are other options besides Oswalt. Floyd, I've read, comes at a lower effective salary this year --around $4mil--and is tied up for a couple more years, though at higher salary. That might allow room for another outfielder. The caveat is they probably have to give up a prospect or two for Floyd. Wandy R. is also available, but his salary is >$10 mil the next couple years. Houston would have to pick up a lot of it in any deal.

[Muggah]

Half our opening day roster might be bench players. I'm really feeling like we are playing for 3rd in the division right now which may as well be not playing at all as far as I'm concerned...

 

Good observation. We are playing for 3rd place this year. And even that's not a lock, watch out for the Jays. They've got better SP right now. We may well be looking at a 4th place finish this year.

[seabeachfred]

I will lose faith in the Arbitration system if Ortiz wins at $16M. However that would be justice. The Sox will deserve what they get if that happens.

 

Cherington is slowly beginning to show even his biggest supporters that he may be a few smokes short of a pack. Giving Ortiz arbitration was a ridiculous move except for the Ben Cherry worshippers on the board. But what's done is done; we can only hope that the arbiter will decide the Red Sox offer was the fairest an best.

[User Name]

Good observation. We are playing for 3rd place this year. And even that's not a lock' date=' watch out for the Jays. They've got better SP right now. We may well be looking at a 4th place finish this year.[/quote']

 

I understand you're looking for validation, but here's what i don't understand:

 

How are the Red Sox playing for third place?