Red Sox Offense 2012

[example1]

If we expect the team to have depth you expect a good pitcher to sit around not starting. If we want to have depth beyond Doubront, Tazawa, etc., you probably have to explore guys like these. Otherwise they are good enough to not be released by their teams, or extremely unproven.

 

The best situation is that none of your pitchers get hurt, but there is always the risk of injury.

 

Find the guys who cost little, maybe guys with higher upside based on past MLB performance, and plop them in the minors.

 

What would you propose?

[a700hitter]

If we expect the team to have depth you expect a good pitcher to sit around not starting. If we want to have depth beyond Doubront, Tazawa, etc., you probably have to explore guys like these. Otherwise they are good enough to not be released by their teams, or extremely unproven.

 

The best situation is that none of your pitchers get hurt, but there is always the risk of injury.

 

Find the guys who cost little, maybe guys with higher upside based on past MLB performance, and plop them in the minors.

 

What would you propose?

I wouldn't propose those guys, because it is highly likely that they will be unable to perform due to injury when we suffer an injury to one of the starters. That's not depth that I want. I'd rather sign Saunders as a depth signing and keep him in the pen.

[example1]

I wouldn't propose those guys' date=' because it is highly likely that they will be unable to perform due to injury when we suffer an injury to one of the starters. That's not depth that I want. I'd rather sign Saunders as a depth signing and keep him in the pen.[/quote']

 

That'd be okay too I suppose. He could be the long relief, mop-up pitcher.

[a700hitter]

That'd be okay too I suppose. He could be the long relief' date=' mop-up pitcher.[/quote']At least, he is likely to be available if he is needed. If we go to the MASH unit, we probably need to pick up two of those wounded birds in the hopes that one will be healthy when needed. The problem with guys like that is when they are healthy they don't want to be in the minors. They usually force a team to bring them up or release them. Do you want to cut a healthy starter to accommodate a guy whose arm is hanging by a thread? There is a very small chance that those guys will work out. They are injured most of the time and unavailable and when they are healthy they are forcing a roster move or they demand their release.

[Ravenous916]

"Andre Ethier can also become a free agent after 2012, and Olney points out that a pre-deadline trade involving the Dodgers outfielder is possible."

 

I don't care if he is left handed... go get em..

[a700hitter]

"Andre Ethier can also become a free agent after 2012, and Olney points out that a pre-deadline trade involving the Dodgers outfielder is possible."

 

I don't care if he is left handed... go get em..

You want to get him now or after 2012?

[Ravenous916]

the idea of Darnell McDonald in right makes me want to puke. So right now, yesterday even.

 

Btw... saw that Lincecum and the Giants are far apart on an extension, do we have anything in our farm system that would make the Giants consider it? Kinda reminds me of the Pedro deal if we could pull it off.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is no way they deal Ethier before the break. He is coming off an injury plagued yr that saw his power drop. They're going to want to show that he is healthy before dealing him. He's a good hitter, although his defense is outright butchery

[jacksonianmarch]

the idea of Darnell McDonald in right makes me want to puke. So right now, yesterday even.

 

Btw... saw that Lincecum and the Giants are far apart on an extension, do we have anything in our farm system that would make the Giants consider it? Kinda reminds me of the Pedro deal if we could pull it off.

 

Not right now. Lincecum would command a Felix level deal, and right now, the sox lack the high end, short proximity players they would command. And, I doubt they even consider it, they're 1 yr removed from winning it all and are returning a solid team for 2012 in a weak division

[example1]

Not right now. Lincecum would command a Felix level deal' date=' and right now, the sox lack the high end, short proximity players they would command. And, I doubt they even consider it, they're 1 yr removed from winning it all and are returning a solid team for 2012 in a weak division[/quote']

 

I bet if they included Buchholz the Giants would be interested in talking. Not that I think the Sox should do that, but Buchholz has a managable contract moving forward, is a proven MLB pitcher, and is currently ready to slide into the rotation. I'm not advocating it or saying that I put any shread of truth into the idea of the Giants trading Lincecum, but if they were interested the Sox could put together a package to get it done, IMO.

[cljunior]

I bet if they included Buchholz the Giants would be interested in talking. Not that I think the Sox should do that' date=' but Buchholz has a managable contract moving forward, is a proven MLB pitcher, and is currently ready to slide into the rotation. I'm not advocating it or saying that I put any shread of truth into the idea of the Giants trading Lincecum, but if they were interested the Sox could put together a package to get it done, IMO.[/quote']

Instead of Bucholtz, what about packaging Bard and Tazawa and some prospects? It would probably never happen, but Bard is still an unknown quantity as a SP and our bullpen is looking ok now. This way we get a true ace and someone we know can start in Lincecum.

[Meh]

Instead of Bucholtz' date=' what about packaging Bard and Tazawa and some prospects? It would probably never happen, but Bard is still an unknown quantity as a SP and our bullpen is looking ok now. This way we get a true ace and someone we know can start in Lincecum.[/quote']

 

What kind of value do you think Tazawa has? Just curious.

[cljunior]

What kind of value do you think Tazawa has? Just curious.

Haha not a lot at all. About the same as Lackey?

[Meh]

Haha not a lot at all. About the same as Lackey?

 

Well then why would the Giants want him? haha. but seriously he isn't that bad... he does have value but it seemed like you were using him as a 2nd piece in your deal. Lincecum isn't going to be traded, cause theres no reason for him to be traded. Giants are trying to win as they should.

[jacksonianmarch]

I bet if they included Buchholz the Giants would be interested in talking. Not that I think the Sox should do that' date=' but Buchholz has a managable contract moving forward, is a proven MLB pitcher, and is currently ready to slide into the rotation. I'm not advocating it or saying that I put any shread of truth into the idea of the Giants trading Lincecum, but if they were interested the Sox could put together a package to get it done, IMO.[/quote']

 

I doubt two things with that. 1. That the sox would move Buchholz. And 2. that the Giants would have him be the headliner when he's coming off a spinal fracture. Buch is going to stay in the bean for a bit, and they wouldnt move him until he recoups value

[FredLynn]

I wouldn't propose those guys' date=' because it is highly likely that they will be unable to perform due to injury when we suffer an injury to one of the starters. That's not depth that I want. I'd rather sign Saunders as a depth signing and keep him in the pen.[/quote']

 

Saunders is horrible-no better than the nuclear option (Wakefield), and more expensive. Assuming one of Bard/Aceves moves to the SP rotation, that gives us four. We would then need a quality #4 SP (Garza would be fine) plus some depth. Doubront gives us one guy (though I think he might be out of options). Tazawa is not going to be ready to perform as a SP-they are moving him along very slowly. I think we still need two more SP who are willing to be in the minors or in the pen to provide us with sufficient depth at that position.

[cljunior]

Well then why would the Giants want him? haha. but seriously he isn't that bad... he does have value but it seemed like you were using him as a 2nd piece in your deal. Lincecum isn't going to be traded' date=' cause theres no reason for him to be traded. Giants are trying to win as they should.[/quote']

Perhaps I should have put in someone like Kalish as the 2nd player, as they need a good RF. I was just tossing up names.

 

I don't think the Giants will trade him either, just floating the idea further from above. I guess the point was from a Giants point of view, rather than lose him to FA for nothing, trade him for some value. But I think they can still keep him for two more years after arbitration after this one right?

 

Just dreaming .... He'd be an amazing acquisition to our roster though

[Deebs]

They can do two things at the same time.

 

That depends on how much they're willing to go over the luxury tax limit.

 

I would love for them to do both. But if they're financially willing to improve only one of either SP or RF, I'd say what we have for right field is sufficient for right now.

[a700hitter]

Saunders is horrible-no better than the nuclear option (Wakefield)' date=' and more expensive. Assuming one of Bard/Aceves moves to the SP rotation, that gives us four. We would then need a quality #4 SP (Garza would be fine) plus some depth. Doubront gives us one guy (though I think he might be out of options). Tazawa is not going to be ready to perform as a SP-they are moving him along very slowly. I think we still need two more SP who are willing to be in the minors or in the pen to provide us with sufficient depth at that position.[/quote']If we pickup a starter, Aceves can move back to his swingman role where he performs best and he can take emergency spot starts. Saunders could also take spot starts for injury and double headers. He's nothing great, but at this point, he is better than that fossil Wakefield. At least the opposition. Will not get 6 steals in each of his starts. He would be a strictly depth move. We don't have any depth options in AAA. Doubront has been unreliable, inconsistent and had trouble with injuries and conditioning. They can't go into the season relying on him.

[cljunior]

That depends on how much they're willing to go over the luxury tax limit.

 

I would love for them to do both. But if they're financially willing to improve only one of either SP or RF, I'd say what we have for right field is sufficient for right now.

 

Agreed. It's obvious they are being tight on the purse strings, I'd definitely prefer more spent on pitching than offense right now. I'm ok with the offense, still feel very uneasy about pitching depth, who knows if Clay is going to last all season...

[Deebs]

I wouldn't propose those guys' date=' because it is highly likely that they will be unable to perform due to injury when we suffer an injury to one of the starters. That's not depth that I want. I'd rather sign Saunders as a depth signing and keep him in the pen.[/quote']

 

That's the thing about signing pitchers for depth. The guys who are healthy and halfway decent will get starting jobs with another team. It's highly unlikely that you could get someone like that to take either a bullpen role or a minor league contract.

[Deebs]

Agreed. It's obvious they are being tight on the purse strings' date=' I'd definitely prefer more spent on pitching than offense right now. I'm ok with the offense, still feel very uneasy about pitching depth, who knows if Clay is going to last all season...[/quote']

 

Not only do we not know how Clay will bounce back, who knows how Bard and/or Aceves will perform as starters.

[a700hitter]

That's the thing about signing pitchers for depth. The guys who are healthy and halfway decent will get starting jobs with another team. It's highly unlikely that you could get someone like that to take either a bullpen role or a minor league contract.

Webb and Sheets and Harden are guys that are much better than half way decent when healthy. That's why they want the option to demand a promotion or a release when healthy so they can re-establish a career. For depth, you are looking for guys that are healthy and only halfway decent.

[BSN07]

the idea of Darnell McDonald in right makes me want to puke. So right now, yesterday even.

 

Btw... saw that Lincecum and the Giants are far apart on an extension, do we have anything in our farm system that would make the Giants consider it? Kinda reminds me of the Pedro deal if we could pull it off.

 

Any deal for Lincecum starts with Jacoby IMO.

[seabeachfred]

Assuming we have the three certain SP and Bard and we get another one, we will still need some depth at that position. You cannot go into the season with just five SP. Its likely we should have access to 7 or 8. Doubront is a possibility; so is Aceves for an occasional spot start. Who else is there?

Our old buddy Tim Wakefield. Don't get me wrong; I am dead set against that selfish jerk setting foot on the mound again for this team, but its concerning to say the least that the FO has not definitively put him out to pasture. I have a sneaking suspicion that we will be "priviledged" to see Wakefield on the mound for us going for the record. As he said "The fans deserve to see me go for the record".

Jerk.

 

Apparently Pumpsie, the Red Sox front office is still enamored with their two sacred cows. Notice that no team has offered a contract to Wakefield? Yet the Red Sox are still holding out the possibility of welcoming back this slug with open arms. The guy can't pitch anymore. It took, what, ten starts before he got his 200th win? We could have used some of those games for wins which might have helped us more and Wakefield less. As for that other slug, Varitek, the Orioles and Mets both toyed with the idea of maybe offering him a contract and then said no. I mean, Lucchino and Cherington should know by now that enough is enough and finally and utterly cut loose of these two bums. They did their job but for the last four seasons Varitek has been a disaster after June and Wakefield hasn't been worth a damn since the middle of the 2009 season.

 

Unlike you, though, I would take a flier on Joe Saunders. For you to say that he is no better than Wakefield is very hard to imagine. Of course, the word is that he wants a three year, $27 million dollar contract and that means he won't be pitching in Boston. Doubrant? is another Bowden, Anderson, and Pimental----supposed prospects that have crapped out. I have no confidence in Doubrant whatsoever and that goes double for Tazawa.

[User Name]

Apparently Pumpsie, the Red Sox front office is still enamored with their two sacred cows. Notice that no team has offered a contract to Wakefield? Yet the Red Sox are still holding out the possibility of welcoming back this slug with open arms. The guy can't pitch anymore. It took, what, ten starts before he got his 200th win? We could have used some of those games for wins which might have helped us more and Wakefield less. As for that other slug, Varitek, the Orioles and Mets both toyed with the idea of maybe offering him a contract and then said no. I mean, Lucchino and Cherington should know by now that enough is enough and finally and utterly cut loose of these two bums. They did their job but for the last four seasons Varitek has been a disaster after June and Wakefield hasn't been worth a damn since the middle of the 2009 season.

 

Unlike you, though, I would take a flier on Joe Saunders. For you to say that he is no better than Wakefield is very hard to imagine. Of course, the word is that he wants a three year, $27 million dollar contract and that means he won't be pitching in Boston. Doubrant? is another Bowden, Anderson, and Pimental----supposed prospects that have crapped out. I have no confidence in Doubrant whatsoever and that goes double for Tazawa.

 

Fred, the Varitek and Wakefield points are speculation at best. The FO has been quiet on both fronts, but the acquisition of Shoppach and non-contact with Wakefield speak louder than speculative theory. They are not sacred cows, and it would take a miracle for either of them to be back.

 

As for your point on the prospects, Doubront is a young kid with good stuff who had injury issues in 2011, and Pimentel is only 21 years old. How have they crapped out? That makes no sense whatsoever.

[mvp 78]

Fred, the Varitek and Wakefield points are speculation at best. The FO has been quiet on both fronts, but the acquisition of Shoppach and non-contact with Wakefield speak louder than speculative theory. They are not sacred cows, and it would take a miracle for either of them to be back.

 

As for your point on the prospects, Doubront is a young kid with good stuff who had injury issues in 2011, and Pimentel is only 21 years old. How have they crapped out? That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

You don't get it. If they don't outright say Tek and Wake aren't coming back, clearly the FO wants them here featured in prominent roles. Right? I mean it's their duty to tell us fans everything at all times. So if they didn't want them back they would have stormed onto 98.5 to let everyone know. Clearly. In fact, I bet Ben the Boob will sign them to long term deals and is probably consulting with FrancoMa as we speak!

[a700hitter]

Any deal for Lincecum starts with Jacoby IMO.

BSN07 you are a little sneaky. You pay up on our bet after most Red Sox fans want to kill CC. And you removed from your sig another bet that I was about to win, because we are not going to have any farmhand make any impact on our team until 2013. I made that claim during last off season. BTW, I didn't consider Kalish a farmhand at that time as he had lost MLB rookie status. The way it looks now he will still not make an impact before 2013. Very sneaky, sneaking out that sig.

[example1]

What does "make an impact" mean?

[a700hitter]

What does "make an impact" mean?

A starter who performs at the average or better than the average for major leaguers at his position.