Valentine's Big Mouth

[SCM33]

Bard is not a starter after 3 measly start? If they want to commit him as a starter, option him to AAA and he can work it in the minors. He still got all 3 options as they never demoted him.

 

I feel the whole thing was smoke and mirror, they never intended him as a starter.

 

Nope.

 

If the whole thing was smoke and mirrors, then why didn't they address their starting rotation in the off-season other than Padilla and Cook?

 

Bard is not a starter, because hes not a starter.

 

You think the team is better off with Bard working as a starting pitcher at the AAA level after hes already proven to be more than effective as a middle reliever/setup guy?

 

In the end, the front office f***ed this thing up by not having a backup plan other than Doubront, Cook and Padilla battling for the final spots in the rotation.

 

It was a terrible plan to start with. They did nothing to address their holes in the rotation and bullpen.

[mvp 78]

Nothing? I guess Andrew Bailey is a mirage then?

[mvp 78]

As for BV, I'm shocked that his mouth would be causing controversy before April! Who could have possibly seen his megalomania being an issue???

 

Should Iglesias start and Bard be put into the bullpen? Maybe, but you don't run your mouth about it and make the situation worse.

 

He might be a good in game manager, but he's a dumbass otherwise. If he can't deal with the media properly, this ship is already set to sink.

[Elktonnick]

As for BV, I'm shocked that his mouth would be causing controversy before April! Who could have possibly seen his megalomania being an issue???

 

Should Iglesias start and Bard be put into the bullpen? Maybe, but you don't run your mouth about it and make the situation worse.

 

He might be a good in game manager, but he's a dumbass otherwise. If he can't deal with the media properly, this ship is already set to sink.

 

Bobby is doing just fine re the press IMO. Bobby isn't Tito.

[User Name]

Based on the fact that I was right.

 

Hes not a starting pitcher. Experiment over, Experiment failed.

 

It's easy to be "right" if you adjust your opinion to the way things are currently looking.

 

You came up with this "Bard isn't a starter" s*** a couple days ago.

[mvp 78]

Bobby is doing just fine re the press IMO. Bobby isn't Tito.

 

Don't remember Tito causing this much controversy in 8 years to BV's 4 months.

[User Name]

By the way, i was reading the only report out there about Bard and the BP, which is from CSN saying he "may be headed" to the Bullpen.

 

I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but people here are talking like it's being reported all over and it's a sure thing. Apparently it's not.

[example1]

It's piling story on top of story to arrive at consensus. The validity of it seems to come from Valentines comments about Bard.

 

I'm very worried about this situation. When there is an article that can imply with a straight face that based on 7 IP Bard is being demoted it just makes me sick. Valentine is no genius, he's a loose cannon. If they said "we think he will anchor the bullpen and we need that more" I would get it, but Valentine has a way of discussing players with the media that I find very off-putting. I think these decisions and discussions should happen in private and be announced when a decision has happened.

 

I'm sure some of you love the transparency, I just don't think it's starting off well.

[a700hitter]

Am I the only one who hasn't seen a regular season game yet this year? Jesus' date=' Judging Melancon after a few bad spring outings? Bard gives up 3 in 5 IP and he's not good enough to start? This is craziness.[/quote']It seems that the Sox organization is coming to that conclusion, not us. If Bard wants to go north as a starter, he had better throw strikes the next two starts and get lots of outs. He doen't have the luxury to be working on pitches, etc. He needs to win the job. When your manager asks you if you are "still up to this", that is not a good sign.

 

And Melancon is a huge step down from Bard as a late inning guy. He just doesn't have overpowering stuff.

[Elktonnick]

Don't remember Tito causing this much controversy in 8 years to BV's 4 months.

 

 

That could have been one of the reasons we hadn't won a playoff game since 08.

 

Change is always controversial. Plus you sound as if controversy is a bad thing and something to be avoided at all costs. It isn't.

[a700hitter]

Nothing? I guess Andrew Bailey is a mirage then?

He replaces Papelbon. That's a wash at best, and Bailey has not looked that good so far.

[a700hitter]

He might be a good in game manager, but he's a dumbass otherwise. If he can't deal with the media properly, this ship is already set to sink.

All a talented team needs is a good in game manager that gets his team prepared to play. The rest is BS.

[a700hitter]

Bard is not a starter after 3 measly start? If they want to commit him as a starter, option him to AAA and he can work it in the minors. He still got all 3 options as they never demoted him.

 

I feel the whole thing was smoke and mirror, they never intended him as a starter.

I think you might be right. The Sox may never wanted to convert him to a starter. I am pretty sure that Bard asked for the opportunity.

[mvp 78]

That could have been one of the reasons we hadn't won a playoff game since 08.

 

Change is always controversial. Plus you sound as if controversy is a bad thing and something to be avoided at all costs. It isn't.

 

I see, so losing your players in ST is the key to playoff success?

[mvp 78]

He replaces Papelbon. That's a wash at best' date=' and Bailey has not looked that good so far.[/quote']

 

I agree, my point of contention was "nothing."

 

The issue is the roll of the dice for SP, not the bullpen.

[mvp 78]

All a talented team needs is a good in game manager that gets his team prepared to play. The rest is BS.

 

BS that causes players to quit midseason and smoke weed in the clubhouse. It should be lolmets not lolredsox...

[seabeachfred]

It's easy to be "right" if you adjust your opinion to the way things are currently looking.

 

You came up with this "Bard isn't a starter" s*** a couple days ago.

 

I'm not going to just come out and say that Bard is not a starting pitcher because I still am not sure on that score, but let's just say that I am starting to get a little concerned about his penchant for giving up base on balls in the early going of an assignment. I wonder if he is comfortable in that role and whether we are making a mistake not just putting Aceves there and getting between 12-16 wins from him. We do know that someway Alfredo knows how to win even though most of us believe we need to keep him the pen.

 

The one saving grace User is that so many pitchers have trouble in ST because they are experimenting with pitches, doing things to tweak their pitches and just trying out some new things that could pay d ividends during the regular season that hitters aren't aware they have, but I also can see SCM's worry as well. This hasn't looked all that good so far.

[User Name]

I'm not going to just come out and say that Bard is not a starting pitcher because I still am not sure on that score, but let's just say that I am starting to get a little concerned about his penchant for giving up base on balls in the early going of an assignment. I wonder if he is comfortable in that role and whether we are making a mistake not just putting Aceves there and getting between 12-16 wins from him. We do know that someway Alfredo knows how to win even though most of us believe we need to keep him the pen.

 

The one saving grace User is that so many pitchers have trouble in ST because they are experimenting with pitches, doing things to tweak their pitches and just trying out some new things that could pay d ividends during the regular season that hitters aren't aware they have, but I also can see SCM's worry as well. This hasn't looked all that good so far.

 

This has been pointed out before: He's obviously fiddling with his secondary stuff. IIf you've watched his outings, you'll notice he's not throwing the heat as often as he did in years past, yet he's still getting a bunch of groundball outs and keeping his velocity into the end of his outings.

 

The whole mechanical analysis i take with a grain of salt because people here are watching him pitch on TV, and we're fans anyways, not pitching coaches. Not to say i don't agree he's flying open, and he's a bit inconsistent, but it's impossible to go as in-depth into his mechanics as some people here are trying to do without first-hand observation. It's just not the same on the TV.

 

As for the rest of the point, my problem is with the proclamation by some people that "they always knew he wasn't a starter" when that sentiment wasn't presented until a couple days ago. And also, less than 15 IP this Spring. Sometimes people have their finger firmly on top of the panic button at all times and want to create a storyline out of nothing.

[a700hitter]

BS that causes players to quit midseason and smoke weed in the clubhouse. It should be lolmets not lolredsox...

It's their profession and livelihood. If they want to quit on the team because they don't like the manager, I don't want them on the team anyway.

[mvp 78]

It's their profession and livelihood. If they want to quit on the team because they don't like the manager' date=' I don't want them on the team anyway.[/quote']

 

Good luck filling a 25 man roster with players who won't care what the coach leaks out.

[Spudboy]

I really think Bard would best be utilized as set up or mid relief. I agree with User on this subject. I have absolutely NO IDEA if Bard can be a productive starter and I will probably never have the ability to make this determination no many how many times I see him throw. Whether on TV or live.

[VA Sox Fan]

All a talented team needs is a good in game manager that gets his team prepared to play. The rest is BS.

 

What happened to your theory that any monkey can manage a baseball team?

[ibot2much]

Good luck filling a 25 man roster with players who won't care what the coach leaks out.

 

 

we saw what happened to a 25 man team that didn't care that they had a manager who protected them from the media for several seasons

[jung]

I cannot claim to know if Bard can be a productive starter either. When a guy has stuff like he has, even with only two pitches (heater/slider) it is hard to at least not want to find out. If in fact he does have a decent change up for 3 pitches (heater/slider/change up) given his stuff that becomes a wow.

 

Now do I have the expertise to know when meh becomes wow.....No.

 

My biggest concern now is that Bard appears screwed up at this point regardless of whether he is starting or relieving. Could you safely dump him into the eighth inning role at this point? I don't think so. He is most vulnerable to this mechanics issue when he first gets out there.

 

Regardless of what we might think each of us may or may not be seeing, it is hard to argue that he does not eventually settle in and throw strikes at least in this year's iteration of the Bard Mechanics Problem.

 

I am actually at this point more concerned with seeing him in the eighth than in the first. I think Bard deserves more effort from the Sox to resolve this mechanics issue which is now pretty long standing in baseball terms. We are crossing multiple seasons now. I also think he deserves at least one more start in ST and I think V needs to talk to him, not to the damned media or Scouts for other baseball teams.

 

Seems to me that V is talking at him and not to him. Tell him what is expected of him in these ST starts. Bard threw 12 change ups in the stint before this last one and only 1 in this last one. My only issue with his only throwing one in the last outing is that it is impossible to blame his mechanics problem at least in the last stint on working on the change up. He didn't throw it. Most disconcerting to me is that V asked Bard the "are you still up for this" question after his first two stints. What the hell is V doing asking the question at all and especially after only two outings. If V does not want him in the rotation....fine....talk to the coaches and Cherries or whoever but don't ask the kid if he is still up for this.

 

If I were V I would tell Bard that I want him to prove to me that he can get through innings without allowing runners on with no outs. In effect prove to me that you can get strike one on batter one and eventually get batter one out. I would not for this next stint ask him to throw change ups unless Bard wants to throw a change up to a particular batter in a particular situation. I want Bard to get the first batter out in innings instead of continually walking the first batter. I don't care if he has to practice his motion in the runway to the clubhouse. I want him to get the first batter out instead of walking him. I want him to give us a better ball:strike ratio and I want fewer walks generally. That is it for the next outing. I don't care about results. I don't care what else happens.

 

Today's V gem was "I don't criticize players. I never criticize players. I will tell the truth about players but I do not criticize them".

 

That is the biggest load of hogwash this side of a political convention.

 

In the first place if he is going to tell the truth about players, tell the responsible coaches. Tell the FO. Tell the player when the time is right. Don't tell the GD media and your scouting buddies from other teams who in the competitive environment of pro sports are likely not to keep their big mouths shut....why should they? Cause they are your buddies....PLEASE!

[a700hitter]

Good luck filling a 25 man roster with players who won't care what the coach leaks out.

Pay them and they will come. Liking the manager is not aways the best thing.

[mvp 78]

we saw what happened to a 25 man team that didn't care that they had a manager who protected them from the media for several seasons

 

2 rings and barely missing out on 2 other WS appearances?

[a700hitter]

What happened to your theory that any monkey can manage a baseball team?

I stand by that. Unfortunately, the major leagues are stocked with monkeys with learning disabilities.

[a700hitter]

2 rings and barely missing out on 2 other WS appearances?

Teams stocked with talent that won only one division, and several years they finished second to less talented Yankee and Tampa teams IMO.

[ibot2much]

2 rings and barely missing out on 2 other WS appearances?

 

No.... a terrible fade in Sept, bad vibes in the clubhouse, firing of said manager, departure of coaches and general manager, loss of respect for the team members....but thanks for playing.

[Bellhorn04]

No.... a terrible fade in Sept' date=' bad vibes in the clubhouse, firing of said manager, departure of coaches and general manager, loss of respect for the team members....but thanks for playing.[/quote']

 

It was a bad season for Francona last year but it doesn't negate the World Series wins. How many major league managers have won more than 2 titles? Not many. If Bobby V is around long enough to win 2 with the Sox it will be miraculous.