John Lackey to undergo Tommy John surgery

[jacksonianmarch]

I doubt the Cardinals don't pick up Wainwright's option.

 

Really? His option will be picked up in a heartbeat

[redsoxrules]

Really? His option will be picked up in a heartbeat

 

Re-read the post carefully

[Trillz808]

Teams are not as inclined to pick up an option off any pitcher who just had a major surgery

[Meh]

He's still going to suck when he comes back in 2013

 

Sure, but this helps the Sox a lot. They don't have to put him out there every fifth day now. I mean even taking a gamble on a Jason Marqius or letting Wieland getting starts over Lackey would be a plus.

[Trillz808]

I agree with meh this is why i said we should have kept andrew miller in over lackey

[jung]

Maybe his post season performance will make the money needed to get a CJ less but there are more pitchers coming up in the FA season after this one presuming they all don't get signed by their own teams before they enter the FA market.

 

However there always seems to be something of a surcharge for going after the top guy at a position in a FA season and that in part is why the Sox have so much committed money for guys that are underperforming. They have had a propensity to go after the very top guy at a position every time.

 

I would love to see them take a shot at some big upside guy or guys this year and then maybe go harder at guys that sit at the top of the FA market next year if at all.

 

Spending some money to sign a few of their own FA guys is fine.

[Trillz808]

even letting felix doubront get more experience over bedard and lackeys final few starts would have been better

[Trillz808]

However there always seems to be something of a surcharge for going after the top guy at a position in a FA season and that in part is why the Sox have so much committed money for guys that are underperforming. They have had a propensity to go after the very top guy at a position every time.

 

for some reason we went wrong in the offseason when lackey was a free agent because he was most definitely not top of the free agent list

[seabeachfred]

The Sox rotation is looking like a mess heading into 2012 so far.

 

Lester

Beckett

Buchholz

 

 

Who are realistic options for the 4 and 5 spot? I could see us making a run at Oswalt, and then the 5 is a mystery.. Possibly Kazmir? There was interest in Harden at the end of the year, maybe try to sign him now?

 

Just to refresh yours, mine and everyone else's memory we went the buy low and pray blew up in our faces the second half of the 2009 season with the likes of Brad Penny and way over-the-hill John Smoltz. It didn't work then and it won't work next year. Let's assume that our "Big Three" are firing on all cylinders next season ( reminds me of the song High Hopes, doesn't it?), what to do for the next two spots. Well face it, we need a solid No. 4 starter and there are a few out there that's better than what we have right now in the minors. We need a solid rotation and a crack bullpen or we'll be talking about this same crap next winter. Whether Cherington wants to admit it or not, a big trade or a solid free agent signing or two is badly needed. That is why I want Papelbon resigned if it comes down to a choice of between him and Ortiz. Our offense ought to be good again next year but without solid starting pitching and a good bullpen we're spinning or wheels.

 

Good to hear we won't have to worry about Lackey or Matsuzaka next season. That' what I call successful addition by subtraction. Next on the dump list....Wakefield and Varitek.

[User Name]

Really? When healthy, Matsuzaka provides, at the least, league average innings. He sure would have come handy this year as the pocket collapsed around the quarterback.

[3rdManOut]

I can understand that it would probably be very easy to let Wakefield go. Varitek on the other hand Im not too sure, especially with this FO. Didnt we do the "big dance" (so to speak) with trying to figure out if Varitek should go or not a year or two ago? If he is still with us now, whos to say he will be let go? I agree that he should go but I think (but I hope not) the FO might have different plans for his future.

[Trillz808]

 

Good to hear we won't have to worry about Lackey or Matsuzaka next season. That' what I call successful addition by subtraction. Next on the dump list....Wakefield and Varitek.

 

I dont think we need to get rid of tek he is a great asset with his knowledge of the staff but he needs to play way less next year as for wake please retire

[Meh]

I agree with meh this is why i said we should have kept andrew miller in over lackey

 

woah lets not get carried away here.

[3rdManOut]

Oh and in addition, with Lackey getting surgery, he still gets paid under contract right? So how does that work? Meaning would he get paid a little less for no play time on the field thus having the Sox organization having a little more money to deal with? Or it doesnt really matter because he is under contract so we pay him no matter what?

[User Name]

They pay him no matter what. Teams get insurance out on players but i'm not exactly sure how that works.

[jacksonianmarch]

It doesnt come off the salary cap, though, which is what Henry wants to avoid. The low cost route isnt a bad way to go, but it rarely works out. The Yankees got lucky with their low cost route, and they werent relying on it for more than a #5 at best. When Hughes went down and they failed to get Lee, they had to rely on them more. If you go into 2012 with Aceves and cheap option A in your rotation, you are going to be relying an awful lot on your top 3. A top 3 that has seen 1 pitcher throw 190IP each of the last 3 yrs, one guy who missed significant time in 2010 and a few starts in 2011 and another guy who has thrown 1 full big league season and missed half of this season. The track record isnt there for reliability. And the sox farm system isnt strong enough to lean on should any of the above go down.

[User Name]

Great assessment.

[jung]

When healthy, Matsuzaka provides, at the least, league average innings. He sure would have come handy this year as the pocket collapsed around the quarterback.

 

True but it's not like they carted dice off to Siberia. Hurt is hurt. What are you gonna' do.

 

Just to refresh yours, mine and everyone else's memory we went the buy low and pray blew up in our faces the second half of the 2009 season with the likes of Brad Penny and way over-the-hill John Smoltz.

 

Well does that mean they should not try? FA market for pitchers is just weak this year. It just is. Not sure there is much they can do about that either. It would not take much to look at this argument and suggest that your worried about underpaying for junk when the real problem they have had in the FA market is overpaying for junk.

 

There is CJ Wilson and I guess CC on an opt out. I absolutely agree that the Sox need more pitching but before they throw another bazillion dollars at somebody they might in fact be better served trying to take some guys with upside (which tired old Smoltz was not...I never got that and I agree with you there). Waiting one year presuming a deeper pool of pitchers might finally yield a better result. It seems to me that they need to revamp their player evaluation methodology as well. Either that or just being more thoughtful about who they go after instead of lurching into going after the top guy every time might go a long way to getting more value out of the money they do spend.

 

At some point and maybe that is the message that JH is sending us through BC, JH is just going to pull the plug and say look guys we need to do a better job at this and I need to be assured that we are not just doing more of the same before I sign off on more bazillion's. I will grant you that I think JH is in part responsible for the Sox glitzy but underperforming FA perspective. That does not preclude him throwing up his hands and saying "enough already. Show me a better process first."

 

I am OK with getting some of their own guys back or at least Paps and Scuts.....maybe Ortiz.

[User Name]

Getting Papelbon back is a lot more important than most realize. Bard is not a closer.

[jacksonianmarch]

DiceK is gonna be out for most of the yr. He isnt someone to rely on. You dont come into a season relying heavily on a guy who when healthy, is a coin flip. And his work ethic blows, you really think he is going to come back in good shape?

[User Name]

If ownership stops letting pitchers walk all over them regarding their conditioning, then yes, not to mention that a flip of the coin would have been better than what we were relying on down the stretch.

 

That said, he'd be nothing more than pitching depth, which was sorely missed this year.

[3rdManOut]

Im pretty sure this might have been mentioned somewhere before but what about trying Bard out as like a 5th SP? Or does he not have the stamina for that position?

[jacksonianmarch]

Bard was drafted as a starter and was absymal in the minors. It wasnt until they cleaned up his mechanics, shortened his arsenal and moved him to the stretch that he found success. You risk undoing everything if you move him back

[seabeachfred]

Interesting thread guys, but may I add my two cents worth into it? Our bullpen was questionable as it was this past season. We need Papelbon resigned and Bard with his head out of his ass and pitching up to his capabilities, some he did from May through August and failed miserably in during April and September. We need both those guys in the bullpen and we need Aceves down there as well. Here is my idea.....Beckett, Lester, Buchholz----add a fourth solid starter through trade of FA and sign two pitchers to give the rotaton depth. Aceves and one of the extra starters can be long men in the bullpen until needed for sudden doubleheader make-up games or whatever. Harden and Bedard would be two guys healthy might be good additions, but we need a solid fourth starter and there is where I go off the track. Just who that guy might be I'm not certain of, but either by trade or FA we need that No. 4 guy. Maybe Oswalt????

[jacksonianmarch]

Here's the problem. The sox dont have the chips to get a "solid" starter without completely gutting their farm. Both Lavarnway and Iglesias have their futures pencilled in. I think Lavarnway is the starting DH on opening day and Iglesias is the heir apparent at SS. His 2011 season has sapped him of trade value at this point. And there is a dearth of solid starters on the FA market.

[User Name]

What they need are two innings eaters (Jackson and Buehrle fit the bill) and a couple of experiments.

[3rdManOut]

What they need are two innings eaters (Jackson and Buehrle fit the bill) and a couple of experiments.

 

If thats the case, couldn't we tap into our farm system and see what we truely have?

[User Name]

The Sox farm system is really bottom-heavy. No starter will be ready for next year.

[WhiskeyBreath]

It doesnt come off the salary cap' date=' though, which is what Henry wants to avoid. [/quote']

 

With the club option in 2015 for the veteran minimum that is going to kick in, doesn't that allow them to adjust the AAV of the deal for luxury tax purposes?

[SoxSport]

I think the news about Lackey raises the question about why he was even pitching this year.

They knew the guy had a bad elbow. Why tolerate sub par performance from an injured player?

I guess they were waiting for the time when Lackey had to be made to disappear--or something.

I think it's a disservice to the guy--though maybe he didn't want to have surgery. You don't know.

It changes my perspective about him--pitching hurt. Though he was a bad sign by Epstein.

He should have known Lackey never pitched well for the Angels in Fenway.