2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[seabeachfred]

He taxed his bullpen in lots of games where starters were lifted after 5 or 6 innings and 100 -110 pitches where only 2-3 runs were given up. That was as big a problem as the 7 run rule forfeit games. Beckett's curves hung like balloons after 100-110 pitches. They couldn't get deep into low scoring games. The over taxing of the pen day in and day out prevented him from going to the pen before the 5th or 6th inning no matter how many runs were allowed. Too often that number of runs was 7 and the game was over-- given away.

 

Besides being a miserable field manager and an even more inept game strategist, Francona was wedded to his pre-game plan and hardly e ver deviated from it. When he decided a pitcher was going to go six, he went six no matter how badly he was battered (within reason of course). Game Two of the 2008 ALCS with Beckett is proof positive of that. However, Valentine has said he is not any big fan of pitch counts and he will take a more reasoned look at how many pitches are thrown by his starter and how effective he is before he goes to the bullpen.

 

To make matters worse, when the opposite occurred and the pitcher was actually pitching well, once he hit 100-110 pitches he was out of there and the bullpen was summoned. That was FrancoMa's schtick and he kept to that. The team will be much better managed from the dugout this year than the last few years.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, personally I can't wait to see how the genius Valentine handles some of the issues he'll be facing with this pitching staff this year.

[jung]

Hard to imagine this won't be a very challenging year for V. He is performing in a much tougher environment than he had with the Mets. No team in MLB is really under the microscope the Sox are under in normal situations, never mind the year after "bear, chicken and the collapse".

 

On top of that he will have a team with a huge payroll that still has holes, He will be stuck toeing the company line (we are satisfied with the team as constructed). There is every chance that some of the high priced stars that make up that lofty payroll with be gunning for V if he tries to institute changes that suggest to the entitled stars that they are not so entitled after all and there is no surety that Management will back their Manager if push comes to shove.

 

V will deserve a good deal of credit if he gets through this season in one piece. If he gets them to the post season he should consider running for President.

[Bellhorn04]

Hard to imagine this won't be a very challenging year for V. He is performing in a much tougher environment than he had with the Mets. No team in MLB is really under the microscope the Sox are under in normal situations, never mind the year after "bear, chicken and the collapse".

 

On top of that he will have a team with a huge payroll that still has holes, He will be stuck toeing the company line (we are satisfied with the team as constructed). There is every chance that some of the high priced stars that make up that lofty payroll with be gunning for V if he tries to institute changes that suggest to the entitled stars that they are not so entitled after all and there is no surety that Management will back their Manager if push comes to shove.

 

V will deserve a good deal of credit if he gets through this season in one piece. If he gets them to the post season he should consider running for President.

 

Agreed. Every year is a tough year for the manager of the Red Sox-Grady Little nailed it when he said 'in Boston they don't play 162 games, they play 162 seasons'.

 

But this year promises to be especially tough, and as you say if Valentine gets them to the postseason he will have done very well indeed.

[a700hitter]

I don't understand. You're criticizing Francona for not leaving starters in past 100-110 pitches' date=' then giving a perfect example of what happens to most starters at 100-110 pitches.[/quote']I am criticizing the fact that our pitchers were poorly conditioned. If Francona had pushed them harder in spring training or earlier in the season to stretch them out maybe they could pitch effectively beyond 110 pitches.

[Spitball]

Johnny Damon No Longer Considering Yankees

 

By Mike Axisa [February 18 at 8:21pm CST]

 

The Yankees are reportedly in "extensive" talks with Raul Ibanez about their DH job, but another option is no longer on the table. Johnny Damon told George A. King III and Joel Sherman of The New York Post that both he and the team are no longer considering a second tour of duty in New York.

 

"We both are looking at other options now,'' said Damon, adding that it's "unfortunate."

 

GM Brian Cashman acknowledged that the two sides spoke about a possible reunion, saying: "He called and I told him the truth. He is not the No. 1 option if and when I turn to DH options."

 

Earlier today we heard that even after the A.J. Burnett trade, the Yankees only have enough money to sign Eric Chavez or a left-handed DH, not both. Team executives will meet next week to reconsider the budget once the trade is made official, however. More than 58% of nearly 12,000 MLBTR readers prefer either Ibanez or Vladimir Guerrero to Damon according to the results of this morning's poll.

 

I can't say I'm sorry. I really dislike Damon...now.

[User Name]

Exactly.

 

An example of the misapplication of sabermetrics--maybe.

 

This makes no sense. It does not apply at all.

[a700hitter]

“We’d all like something resolved by the end of spring training,” said Matt Cain to Andrew Baggarly of CSNBayArea.com when asked about a contract extension. “I don’t think either side wants that to linger into the season.” Cain has already indicated that he will not give the Giants a hometown discount after already signing one team friendly contract.

[Bellhorn04]

I am criticizing the fact that our pitchers were poorly conditioned. If Francona had pushed them harder in spring training or earlier in the season to stretch them out maybe they could pitch effectively beyond 110 pitches.

 

Okay.

[Muggah]

I am criticizing the fact that our pitchers were poorly conditioned. If Francona had pushed them harder in spring training or earlier in the season to stretch them out maybe they could pitch effectively beyond 110 pitches.

 

All that's true. And that's why Valentine and McClure will be treating the pitching staff (especially certain members) like young children this year. They have to.

 

Whether these guys like it or not someone is constantly going to be monitoring them to make sure they're doing everything they're supposed to. They've got no one to blame but themselves.

[SoxSport]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2012/02/19/is_it_time_for_red_sox_to_consider_jose_iglesias/?page=5

 

Cafardo is pushing Iglesias at the Globe this morning.

 

He thinks Iglesias has a real shot at starting SS. Bobby V. had Ordonez with the Mets,

a good field/no hit type that Iglesias may turn out to be. Hiding him in that lineup with a DH should be no problem.

 

I figure you have to expect some surprises with V., and this may be one of them. I've had a hunch about that. The kid is all-star ready defensively, and everybody is talking about his weak hitting--except the Red Sox pitchers.

 

I remember seeing Iglesias circle the bases as a pinch runner last year to score a key run, and thinking this kid can fly. Yet he has no base stealing history in the minors. Has the Red Sox philosophy been to discourage base-stealing? That is sure to change. Those runs-from- stolen-bases saber stats took a big bite out of them last year.

[SoxSport]

I can't say I'm sorry. I really dislike Damon...now.

 

 

Yeah. And the Yankees "only had enough money" to sign Kuroda for $10 mil.

[SoxSport]

Hard to imagine this won't be a very challenging year for V. He is performing in a much tougher environment than he had with the Mets. No team in MLB is really under the microscope the Sox are under in normal situations, never mind the year after "bear, chicken and the collapse".

 

On top of that he will have a team with a huge payroll that still has holes, He will be stuck toeing the company line (we are satisfied with the team as constructed). There is every chance that some of the high priced stars that make up that lofty payroll with be gunning for V if he tries to institute changes that suggest to the entitled stars that they are not so entitled after all and there is no surety that Management will back their Manager if push comes to shove.

 

V will deserve a good deal of credit if he gets through this season in one piece. If he gets them to the post season he should consider running for President.

 

It won't be easy for V. The team is used to a manager who let them do as they please, and never took spring training very seriously for the regulars.

 

In a way, it's good the Globe is putting the heat on the players for the collapse. That helps V.

 

We all know, however, it's the management that sets the tone. And Henry will look for some changes from V.

[Bellhorn04]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2012/02/19/is_it_time_for_red_sox_to_consider_jose_iglesias/?page=5

 

Cafardo is pushing Iglesias at the Globe this morning.

 

He thinks Iglesias has a real shot at starting SS. Bobby V. had Ordonez with the Mets,

a good field/no hit type that Iglesias may turn out to be. Hiding him in that lineup with a DH should be no problem.

 

I figure you have to expect some surprises with V., and this may be one of them. I've had a hunch about that. The kid is all-star ready defensively, and everybody is talking about his weak hitting--except the Red Sox pitchers.

 

I remember seeing Iglesias circle the bases as a pinch runner last year to score a key run, and thinking this kid can fly. Yet he has no base stealing history in the minors. Has the Red Sox philosophy been to discourage base-stealing? That is sure to change. Those runs-from- stolen-bases saber stats took a big bite out of them last year.

 

I really don't think so. The Red Sox were 3rd in the league in SB in 2008 and 5th in 2009. I think the 2008 team was the first Red Sox team to have 3 players with 20 SB.

 

Plus I'm sure they expected Crawford to steal a lot of bases. Why he didn't remains somewhat of a mystery.

[SoxSport]

I really don't think so. The Red Sox were 3rd in the league in SB in 2008 and 5th in 2009. I think the 2008 team was the first Red Sox team to have 3 players with 20 SB.

 

Plus I'm sure they expected Crawford to steal a lot of bases. Why he didn't remains somewhat of a mystery.

 

Mystery is putting it kindly. The guy was a base stealing beast in TB against the Sox.

 

The opposition stole 3 times as many bases against them as the Red Sox did last year.The saber runs from stolen bases was way lopsided in favor of the opposition. That's why Shoppach was brought in.

 

Last year, Ells and Pedey were the only guys who stole more than 20 bases. This year, I expect V. will keep CC and Ells at the top of the lineup, and they will both steal more than 40 bases each. Stolen bases will be part of the offense again.

[jung]

Well ya' gotta' get on to steal. Crawford did not get on very much in 2011. If he gets on I assume he will steal more although I am not sure it ever fits well in the Red Sox scheme of things.

 

I am more impressed with his ability to go from 1st to 3rd on a single or his ability to get home on an extra base hit than I am with his steals anyway. The steal is an exciting play but I have never been convinced that it is the most relevant feature of having good speed on the base paths.

[FredLynn]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2012/02/19/is_it_time_for_red_sox_to_consider_jose_iglesias/?page=5

 

Cafardo is pushing Iglesias at the Globe this morning.

 

He thinks Iglesias has a real shot at starting SS. Bobby V. had Ordonez with the Mets,

a good field/no hit type that Iglesias may turn out to be. Hiding him in that lineup with a DH should be no problem.

 

I figure you have to expect some surprises with V., and this may be one of them. I've had a hunch about that. The kid is all-star ready defensively, and everybody is talking about his weak hitting--except the Red Sox pitchers.

 

I remember seeing Iglesias circle the bases as a pinch runner last year to score a key run, and thinking this kid can fly. Yet he has no base stealing history in the minors. Has the Red Sox philosophy been to discourage base-stealing? That is sure to change. Those runs-from- stolen-bases saber stats took a big bite out of them last year.

 

Good thing Cafardo isn't the GM. I don't want to see a hair on Iglesias' head until he can prove that he can hit the baseball. So far he has been an abject failure in that regard. We do not need another black hole in our lineup.

[Bellhorn04]

Good thing Cafardo isn't the GM. I don't want to see a hair on Iglesias' head until he can prove that he can hit the baseball. So far he has been an abject failure in that regard. We do not need another black hole in our lineup.

 

Our offense won't be a problem, you said so yourself. We'll score enough runs with or without Iglesias. If he can play a good shortstop that'll be enough.

[a700hitter]

Mike Cameron To Retire

By Zach Links [February 19 at 10:24am CST]

 

Outfielder Mike Cameron has notified the Nationals that he will retire, according to the team's official Twitter account. Cameron also drew interest from the Guardians this winter before signing a minor league deal with Washington in December.

 

The 39-year-old was designated for assignment by the Red Sox in June before being dealt to the Marlins. In total, Cameron hit just .203/.285/.359 in 269 combined plate appearances and saw his season come to an end when he was released by the Marlins for conduct detrimental to the team.

 

In 17 big league seasons, Cameron hit .249/.338/.444 with 278 home runs for eight different clubs. According to Baseball Reference, the centerfielder earned more than $76MM over the course of his career.

I guess no one was willing to pay anything for this broken down old wreck that Theo gave a 2 year retirement package of $18 million. Can you imagine $18 million for this guy and now we can't offer starting pitchers more than $5 million/year for 1 year and we have 2 relievers in our rotation that have never been starters? Good job Theo. Thanks.

[jacksonianmarch]

Our offense won't be a problem' date=' you said so yourself. We'll score enough runs with or without Iglesias. If he can play a good shortstop that'll be enough.[/quote']

 

Your offense went because there were few holes. Well, the holes you had havent really been filled adequately and now you created another one by dealing Scutaro. Eventually, the dam breaks. Starting out the yr with a 6-9 of Salty, Ross, Sweeney and Iglesias would be music to my ears. I don't think Papi would see a pitch to hit with a runner on base unless the sacks were packed

[mvp 78]

The only downgrade from 2011 to 2012 would be losing Scutaro. Adding Iglesias won't ruin the lineup.

[jacksonianmarch]

The only downgrade from 2011 to 2012 would be losing Scutaro. Adding Iglesias won't ruin the lineup.

 

Yes, and Papi and Youkilis are 1 yr older, you no longer have Reddick available for a burst of offense when it was needed and Crawford starts the season on the DL with a wrist injury. You must admit the 6-9 through April looks to be a big black hole, especially with Iglesias. Aviles can hit and right now, offensively anyways, should be your starting SS

[a700hitter]

Yes' date=' and Papi and Youkilis are 1 yr older, you no longer have Reddick available for a burst of offense when it was needed and Crawford starts the season on the DL with a wrist injury. You must admit the 6-9 through April looks to be a big black hole, especially with Iglesias. Aviles can hit and right now, offensively anyways, should be your starting SS[/quote']Any pitcher that throws a strike to Ortiz should be verbally dressed down by his manager.

[FredLynn]

Your offense went because there were few holes. Well' date=' the holes you had havent really been filled adequately and now you created another one by dealing Scutaro. Eventually, the dam breaks. Starting out the yr with a 6-9 of Salty, Ross, Sweeney and Iglesias would be music to my ears. I don't think Papi would see a pitch to hit with a runner on base unless the sacks were packed[/quote']

 

Exactly. Our offense AS IT WAS before we gave away Scutaro and failed to address our RF problem would have had few holes and would have been as potent as any offense in the game. We would have a black hole at #6-9, potentially. Scutaro hit .299/.781 last year. Iglesias can't even hit minor league pitching. I don't want him on the team until he can hit the baseball.

[mvp 78]

Yes' date=' and Papi and Youkilis are 1 yr older, you no longer have Reddick available for a burst of offense when it was needed and Crawford starts the season on the DL with a wrist injury. You must admit the 6-9 through April looks to be a big black hole, especially with Iglesias. Aviles can hit and right now, offensively anyways, should be your starting SS[/quote']

 

Reddick had one good month and then was miserable.

 

I'm sure the Sox will have no problem replacing April 2011 CC's performance for the first month.

 

Even with Youk and Ortiz getting a year older, they'll still be among thebest offensive producers at their position.

 

The holes they have this year are the same as last year except for Scutaro. Iglesias won't hurt the offense that much. His defense will make up for the offensive downgrade.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Oh my God. I'm so sick of all of this negative talk about SS and RF.

 

First off, Scutaro played 113 games last year. That's it. 113 games. Our SS as a whole last year had a .730 OPS. Pardon me, but I find it hard to believe that our SS offered anyone any protection last year.

 

Second off, Reddick had a burst of offense for 18 games, where he hit .404/.455/.638. After that game, he hit .251/.296/.415 for the remaining 69 games he played. Cody Ross has a career .780 OPS, and he's going to be helped out a lot from playing at Fenway since he's a pull hitter. RF was an absolute upgrade over last year. Last year, our RF as a whole OPS'd .650. That's it. That's like having Jose Iglesias out in RF, yet we cite RF as being a place that we didn't upgrade. Makes zero sense.

 

Cody Ross will be able to provide enough protection so that pitchers won't want to be pitching to him with anyone on base, and thus enough protection that they will almost certainly pitch to Ortiz.

 

All of this negativity is unbelievable. Really, it is.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yes' date=' and Papi and Youkilis are 1 yr older, you no longer have Reddick available for a burst of offense when it was needed and Crawford starts the season on the DL with a wrist injury. You must admit the 6-9 through April looks to be a big black hole, especially with Iglesias. Aviles can hit and right now, offensively anyways, should be your starting SS[/quote']

 

First off, Papi was a year older last year, and how did he perform vs 2010 numbers? Saying "he's a year older" is not a good prediction of future performance, it's just cliche.

 

Second - Sure, our offense isn't going to be as good on April 1st as it will once Crawford gets back, but having a 6-9 of Ross - Salty - Sweeney - Iggy/Aviles isn't the absolute worst in the world, especially with the strength of the 1-5 hitters. Sweeney is a solid line drive hitter who gets on base at a solid clip for a #8 hitter (around .345 OBP).

 

What it boils down to is that the offensive upgrade that the Red Sox get with Cody Ross vs RF in 2011 (.650 OPS) will easily outweigh the offense that the Red Sox lose at SS, which was only a .730 OPS last season. Carl Crawford is certainly going to bounce back and put up better numbers than he did last season. It would be complete homerism to expect a guy like Carl Crawford to repeat his 2011 numbers rather than bounce back to his career type numbers.

 

Regardless of all of that, last April Crawford hit .155/.204/.227. That's not going to be difficult to replace this April.

 

Saying the bottom 3 is going to be a black hole is pretty dumb considering this was the best offense in baseball last year, the guy we are without this April wasn't exactly a superstar last year, our RF OPS'd .650 last year, and our SS OPS'd .730 last year. And those are the positions everyone cites as being a huge weakness this year.

 

Newsflash. They were all a weakness last year, and it didn't hold the offense back.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Good thing Cafardo isn't the GM. I don't want to see a hair on Iglesias' head until he can prove that he can hit the baseball. So far he has been an abject failure in that regard. We do not need another black hole in our lineup.

 

What was this teams strength last season?

 

Offense.

 

What was this teams weakness last season?

 

Starting Pitching.

 

What positions are absolutely vital to a successful starting pitching rotation?

 

Up the middle (specifically 2B and SS).

 

So why the hell wouldn't we try to make our team better by taking away from something we have an abundance of to make an impact on an area that we have a weakness?

 

You know how Ozzie Smith did in his rookie campaign? .623 OPS. Know what his WAR was? 3.1.

 

Defense up the middle is incredibly important, and that will help out our SP tremendously.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Reddick had one good month and then was miserable.

 

I'm sure the Sox will have no problem replacing April 2011 CC's performance for the first month.

 

Even with Youk and Ortiz getting a year older, they'll still be among thebest offensive producers at their position.

 

The holes they have this year are the same as last year except for Scutaro. Iglesias won't hurt the offense that much. His defense will make up for the offensive downgrade.

 

Logic at it's finest.

 

Jacko you really need to stop trying so hard to bring the Red Sox down. We're not that much different than the team last year. Go have an orgasm at the Yankees getting rid of Burnett or something in your Yankees off season thread. Then tell us how you're going to become WS champs and how we'll be watching golf.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Don't forget, we added a guy in Shoppach who has had tremendous success against LHP.

 

Shoppach (career) vs LHP: .273 Avg, .909 OPS.

 

That's a big addition considering Salty hit .209/.262/.341 vs LHP last season.