2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[SoxFanForsyth]

Couple things....

 

1. Cody Ross is an upgrade over Drew from 2011 and Reddick. But not by much. He may have a career OPS of .779, but he hasnt sniffed since 2009. He's going to enter a league with much better pitching coming off 2 seasons of .730ish OPS. To expect him to all of a sudden hit much better is a bit homerish. It's possible, but not likely.

 

Cody Ross also played at San Francisco for the past 2 seasons. That's a huge reason as to why his OPS decreased. The NL West isn't exactly a hitter friendly ballpark. To say that his OPS will jump by 15-20 points and be around .750-760 is extremely reasonable, and to say that with consistent playing time and in a bandbox ballpark division he could hit to a .780 OPS? I don't see that as homerish at all.

 

2. You guys are overestimating Iglesias' bat if you think he can OPS even in the .600s. In AAA last yr' date=' he OPS'd .554, which is absolutely and totally horrible. He's a wizard with the glove, but thinking he's gonna break camp as your starting SS and not be a major drain on your offense is obscene. A guy with a .554OPS is effectively a pitcher in the NL. So your lineup will go from having professional hitters 1-9 to a lineup with 1-8 and a pitcher. [/quote']

 

The best team in the NL had their pitchers have a .458 OPS. Effectively, that's not a pitcher in the NL. Even if he OPS's .580, his defense still makes him an MLB caliber player. And the thing is, this team can sacrifice some offense. Don't forget, they had the very best offense in baseball last season in almost every category. If it gives the SP more confidence, it's well worth the decrease in offensive production. Again, they only got a .730 OPS from their SS last season. It's not like they had HanRam or Tulo over there. Iglesias's defense will make him just as valuable as Scutaro.

 

3. Saying the offense at SS isnt going to be a humongous dropoff with Iglesias there because Scutaro only played 110 games is also absurd. The sox SS's were 10th in baseball with a .730OPS. If Iglesias were your starter' date=' then you could see that number plummet by 200 points.[/quote']

 

Right. Try to actually do the math big guy.

 

1. SS drops from .730 to .580. That's a .150 drop.

2. RF boosts from .650 to .760. That's a .110 increase.

3. Add Shoppach at C (career .909 OPS vs LHP) to split with Salty. That boosts the Catcher OPS over last year because the guy splitting time with Salty isn't Varitek.

 

There may be a slight dropoff in offense, but to say it's going to be humongous?? Come on dude. That's just blind homerism and bias.

 

It's really not that hard to look this stuff up.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Great. Then YOU show me a quote from any talent evaluator who thinks that Iglesias will one day be as good as Smith.

You underestimate the value of the opinions here. Talent evaluators are just guessing..just like we are. They just get paid for it.

 

http://baseballinstinct.com/2011/11/30/prospect-instinct-jose-iglesias-ss-boston-red-sox/

 

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2590

 

http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/05/red_sox_hot_prospect_jose_igle.html

 

Every one of those refers to Iglesias as drawing comparisons to Ozzies Smith.

 

Oh and the whole "Talent evaluators are just guessing..just like we are. They just get paid for it."? Are you kidding me?? This is a joke, right?? Well then s***. Why don't you just go get an MLB team to pay you to make talent evaluations? Oh, wait. They're not guesses. That's probably the most ignorant comment I've ever seen you make. Seriously, and that's saying a LOT.

[FredLynn]

I really don't think we should be comparing any minor leaguer to Ozzie Smith. Ozzie was the best ever. It's just crazy to be mentioning this kid in the same sentence as Ozzie.

 

This is the essence of it. When Jose wins as many gold gloves in the majors as Ozzie then we can start comparing the two. Until then, its absurd to do so. Their playing styles are similar: all defense, no offense. No one is debating the POTENTIAL of Iglesias with the glove, but before we elect him to the Hall of Fame, lets see him play for a few seasons.

[Palodios]

3. Add Shoppach at C (career .909 OPS vs LHP) to split with Salty. That boosts the Catcher OPS over last year because the guy splitting time with Salty isn't Varitek.

 

Varitek's split against LHP in 2011 was .748.

Shoppach's split against LHP in 2011 was .788

 

Honestly, I see Shoppach as more of a defensive option than a platoon option. When you have your lunch stolen against the Rays every game, eventually you get a guy who can throw guys out. Hopefully his arm is closer to his 2011 year than 2010.

[FredLynn]

http://baseballinstinct.com/2011/11/30/prospect-instinct-jose-iglesias-ss-boston-red-sox/

 

http://www.scoutingbook.com/players/p2590

 

http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/05/red_sox_hot_prospect_jose_igle.html

 

Every one of those refers to Iglesias as drawing comparisons to Ozzies Smith.

 

Oh and the whole "Talent evaluators are just guessing..just like we are. They just get paid for it."? Are you kidding me?? This is a joke, right?? Well then s***. Why don't you just go get an MLB team to pay you to make talent evaluations? Oh, wait. They're not guesses. That's probably the most ignorant comment I've ever seen you make. Seriously, and that's saying a LOT.

 

Your butt kissing of talent evaluators is sickening. They are often wrong, as Theo Epstein proved over and over again.

As for Iglesias, there is really no need for him to play another game. We should elect him to the Hall of Fame right now, eh? After all, all the adulated talent evaluators have already proclaimed him to be the reincarnation of Ozzie Smith, right?

Its nonsense, of course. Iglesias and Smith are/were all defense, no offense. Its plain stupidity to assume that some minor leaguer will become as good as Smith. Thats a long shot. Maybe we could wait and see him play for a small fraction of the 19 seasons Smith played (and, incidentally, won 13 GGs in those 19 years). Incidentally, while Smith had no power, he did finish with a career BA of .262. Iglesias in over 387 PAs in AAA hit just .235.

Long Live King Jose!

[Palodios]

I really don't think we should be comparing any minor leaguer to Ozzie Smith. Ozzie was the best ever. It's just crazy to be mentioning this kid in the same sentence as Ozzie.

 

This is the essence of it. When Jose wins as many gold gloves in the majors as Ozzie then we can start comparing the two. Until then, its absurd to do so. Their playing styles are similar: all defense, no offense. No one is debating the POTENTIAL of Iglesias with the glove, but before we elect him to the Hall of Fame, lets see him play for a few seasons.

 

This is a strawman. No one is comparing the careers of these two players, they're comparing the skill set.

[FredLynn]

This is a strawman. No one is comparing the careers of these two players' date=' they're comparing the skill set.[/quote']

 

So you are saying that Iglesias has a similar skill set to Ozzie Smith?

I can buy "similar style of play", but for me, Iglesias has a lot to prove before I can even begin to compare their skill set.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cody Ross also played at San Francisco for the past 2 seasons. That's a huge reason as to why his OPS decreased. The NL West isn't exactly a hitter friendly ballpark. To say that his OPS will jump by 15-20 points and be around .750-760 is extremely reasonable, and to say that with consistent playing time and in a bandbox ballpark division he could hit to a .780 OPS? I don't see that as homerish at all.

 

 

 

The best team in the NL had their pitchers have a .458 OPS. Effectively, that's not a pitcher in the NL. Even if he OPS's .580, his defense still makes him an MLB caliber player. And the thing is, this team can sacrifice some offense. Don't forget, they had the very best offense in baseball last season in almost every category. If it gives the SP more confidence, it's well worth the decrease in offensive production. Again, they only got a .730 OPS from their SS last season. It's not like they had HanRam or Tulo over there. Iglesias's defense will make him just as valuable as Scutaro.

 

 

 

Right. Try to actually do the math big guy.

 

1. SS drops from .730 to .580. That's a .150 drop.

2. RF boosts from .650 to .760. That's a .110 increase.

3. Add Shoppach at C (career .909 OPS vs LHP) to split with Salty. That boosts the Catcher OPS over last year because the guy splitting time with Salty isn't Varitek.

 

There may be a slight dropoff in offense, but to say it's going to be humongous?? Come on dude. That's just blind homerism and bias.

 

It's really not that hard to look this stuff up.

 

You know what else isnt hard to look up? Cody Ross' splits home vs away. If his home stadium is such a drain on offense, why did he OPS slightly worse on the road?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Your butt kissing of talent evaluators is sickening. They are often wrong, as Theo Epstein proved over and over again.

As for Iglesias, there is really no need for him to play another game. We should elect him to the Hall of Fame right now, eh? After all, all the adulated talent evaluators have already proclaimed him to be the reincarnation of Ozzie Smith, right?

Its nonsense, of course. Iglesias and Smith are/were all defense, no offense. Its plain stupidity to assume that some minor leaguer will become as good as Smith. Thats a long shot. Maybe we could wait and see him play for a small fraction of the 19 seasons Smith played (and, incidentally, won 13 GGs in those 19 years). Incidentally, while Smith had no power, he did finish with a career BA of .262. Iglesias in over 387 PAs in AAA hit just .235.

Long Live King Jose!

 

Wow. I mean seriously.

 

You're easily the most pessimistic Red Sox fan I've ever seen. You blow things to the absolute extreme. Yes. I trust talent evaluators. Because they are professionals. They're not people on message board who claim to be just as good as professionals based on 13 at bats they've seen from someone in spring training.

 

You're actually being an incredibly annoying idiot right now. But that's fine, you'll just be wrong another time.

 

Oh wait, no, the Red Sox should blow this team up and start from scratch. Oh wait. They can't because they have to draft, and the only way to draft a team is by using talent evaluators to evaluate talent. But they aren't any good at it.

 

Well s***. I guess the Red Sox should just bomb Fenway and destroy the team. Let's do away with baseball. No team is safe.

[jacksonianmarch]

What isnt hard to look up either is the WAR of Ross vs Drew and Reddick. Ross had a WAR of 0.9 in 2011. Drew was -0.3 and Reddick was 1.9. According to that metric, the sox are actually downgrading in 2012

[SoxFanForsyth]

You know what else isnt hard to look up? Cody Ross' splits home vs away. If his home stadium is such a drain on offense' date=' why did he OPS slightly worse on the road?[/quote']

 

Because he played in pitchers parks in the NL West. Try looking up more than just home/away splits. He did very well in hitters parks.

 

Hitters Parks:

@ Colorado: .951 OPS.

@ Arizona: 1.238 OPS

 

Pitchers Parks:

@San Diego: .618 OPS

@Pittsburgh: .432 OPS

[FredLynn]

Wow. I mean seriously.

 

You're easily the most pessimistic Red Sox fan I've ever seen. You blow things to the absolute extreme. Yes. I trust talent evaluators. Because they are professionals. They're not people on message board who claim to be just as good as professionals based on 13 at bats they've seen from someone in spring training.

 

You're actually being an incredibly annoying idiot right now. But that's fine, you'll just be wrong another time.

 

Oh wait, no, the Red Sox should blow this team up and start from scratch. Oh wait. They can't because they have to draft, and the only way to draft a team is by using talent evaluators to evaluate talent. But they aren't any good at it.

 

Well s***. I guess the Red Sox should just bomb Fenway and destroy the team. Let's do away with baseball. No team is safe.

 

Coming from a moron such as yourself, I guess I could just disregard much of what you have to say.

 

As usual, you are missing the point. If those marvelous talent evaluators are so gosh darn good, how come they are wrong so often? You have FAR too much blind respect for "professionals". What they do is not rocket science. They make educated guesses about who will succeed, based on numbers and observation-the same thing many of US could do if we had access to the same data and time to do it.

Oh-and since you haven't been paying attention, I will say again, assuming you can read, that I think that the team is on the right track, overall. They have fired an incompetent manager and got rid of an incompetent GM. They jettisoned Wakefield and most likely Varitek. They hired a disciplinarian to fix the clubhouse. And while it will take a few years to fix what Epstein did to us, they are at least starting. I hope your expectations are not too high this year...oh wait...I couldn't care less about your expectations.

[SoxFanForsyth]

What isnt hard to look up either is the WAR of Ross vs Drew and Reddick. Ross had a WAR of 0.9 in 2011. Drew was -0.3 and Reddick was 1.9. According to that metric' date=' the sox are actually downgrading in 2012[/quote']

 

You know, for someone who uses WAR so much, you should really try to understand the metric.

 

IT DOES NOT ADJUST FOR PARK FACTORS.

 

I mean seriously. A players value when playing home games at AT&T is going to be extremely depleted vs that of playing at Fenway.

 

IT VALUES GAMES PLAYED.

 

Cody Ross played 121 games last year. Reddick played 87, JD Drew played 81. That's a difference of 67 games. That makes a huge difference in WAR.

 

I mean, really?? Come on man. If you're going to make all of these points, at least try to understand what you're talking about.

[jacksonianmarch]

Because he played in pitchers parks in the NL West. Try looking up more than just home/away splits. He did very well in hitters parks.

 

Hitters Parks:

@ Colorado: .951 OPS.

@ Arizona: 1.238 OPS

 

Pitchers Parks:

@San Diego: .618 OPS

@Pittsburgh: .432 OPS

 

SSS. Cmon man, really? You say he was stunted by his home park, which is a pitcher's park. Now you are saying he is stunted by all parks that could be construed as pitcher's parks. That's called baseball, some parks are better than others. Doesnt mean dick when it comes to his performance. As a full time player, he's a guy who is a low .700s OPS guy. If they platoon him when Crawford comes back and be sure to give him lefty matchups, then he'll be more than that.

[Palodios]

You know what else isnt hard to look up? Cody Ross' splits home vs away. If his home stadium is such a drain on offense' date=' why did he OPS slightly worse on the road?[/quote']

 

Cody Ross isn't a middle of the order bat. San Francisco often tried to treat him like one because their offense was so bad. I was looking at Ross's career numbers, and I found an interesting set of splits:

 

Batting 1st, .934 OPS

Batting 2nd, .347 OPS

Batting 3rd, .502 OPS

Batting 4th, .743 OPS

Batting 5th, .669 OPS

Batting 6th, .782 OPS

Batting 7th, .770 OPS

Batting 8th, 1.020 OPS

Batting 9th, .920 OPS

 

Some of those are SSS, but it seems pretty clear to me that he performs significantly better on the outskirts of the order, rather than in the middle.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Coming from a moron such as yourself, I guess I could just disregard much of what you have to say.

 

As usual, you are missing the point. If those marvelous talent evaluators are so gosh darn good, how come they are wrong so often? You have FAR too much blind respect for "professionals". What they do is not rocket science. They make educated guesses about who will succeed, based on numbers and observation-the same thing many of US could do if we had access to the same data and time to do it.

Oh-and since you haven't been paying attention, I will say again, assuming you can read, that I think that the team is on the right track, overall. They have fired an incompetent manager and got rid of an incompetent GM. They jettisoned Wakefield and most likely Varitek. They hired a disciplinarian to fix the clubhouse. And while it will take a few years to fix what Epstein did to us, they are at least starting. I hope your expectations are not too high this year...oh wait...I couldn't care less about your expectations.

 

Yup. You're an expert. Do me a favor. Quit your job, go get hired by the A's as a talent evaluator, and go build the team as a talent evaluator since they are so stupid.

 

You think I'm the one who has blind respect for these guys?? You have blind hatred for them. You have zero understanding of how to evaluate a players talent, as seen by the amount of emphasis you put on Jose Iglesias's stats in AAA as a 21 year old rather than being concerned with bat speed and attributes. He was one of the (if not the) youngest player in AAA in 2011. His numbers were low because he was playing against people who were 2-3 years older than him and that's a lot of developmental time.

 

But I'm just talking to a wall because you're smarter than anyone else and you know better than anyone else. Screw talent and projectability. Just look at numbers. I don't care how old he was or if he was playing at a much more advanced level than most other people his age.

 

The comparisons to Ozzie Smith were this. His defense is extremely comparable to Ozzie Smith. He's a defensive wizard at SS. There have been many, many, many talent evaluators who say that his defense is gold glove worthy as is. His bad is never going to be anything outstanding. In Ozzie's first 4 seasons in the MLB, he had a combined .573 OPS. He also had 2 seasons with a WAR over 3, and had a combined 9.1 WAR in his first 4 seasons, which is solid especially considering his offensive output (he only played 110 games in his 4th season, decreasing his value per WAR).

 

Iglesias could very well come up and be a complete defensive wizard with no bat but still be a 3-3.5 WAR player because of his defense being so good. That's what everyone is saying. Borrow from an area of strength (offense) and disburse to an area of weakness (defense up the middle and pitching).

[a700hitter]

Come on guys, get it in check. Comparing a minor league SS to Ozzie Smith would be like comparing a minor league hitter to Ted Williams. It's incredible hyperbole. There is no reason for the name-calling.

[jung]

I would like the Sox to look at Iglesias this spring to see where he is mainly because one rational for the corner they appear to be boxing themselves into at SS is bringing Iglesias up sooner rather than later. Were it not for that I would say, leave the kid in the system. He is ridiculously young. So, he has the time to develop. However the Sox "plan" appears to be to push Iglesias.

 

It has looked like that almost from day 1 for him. Getting rid of Scuts may not have been part of that plan but hard to argue that they have not been pushing Iglesias. Maybe he should not even be playing AAA yet given that he probably would be better served with more plate appearances against pitchers at a AA level.

 

Hard to fathom why the Sox have gone down this road with him. It is not like they did not at least have serviceable options at SS. I don't like the comparisons to Smith at this stage of his career either. Anybody making those comparisons would have to have seen Smith play collage ball in California back in 1976. Think there are many guys around that saw a relevant amount of Smith playing college ball and have seen Iglesias play in the Red Sox system? If Iglesias is a diamond in the rough and some of these comparisons are valid then one thing to keep in mind is that Smith was 23 years old before he put on his first MLB uniform.

 

Now that the Sox have shored up the outfield I guess we will mainly see Aviles at SS with Punto spelling him and coming in for defense. I just hope they don't screw Iglesias up. They have already been pushing him along faster than they should have. He may never hit if he never sees anything that he can hit.

[jacksonianmarch]

You know, for someone who uses WAR so much, you should really try to understand the metric.

 

IT DOES NOT ADJUST FOR PARK FACTORS.

 

I mean seriously. A players value when playing home games at AT&T is going to be extremely depleted vs that of playing at Fenway.

 

IT VALUES GAMES PLAYED.

 

Cody Ross played 121 games last year. Reddick played 87, JD Drew played 81. That's a difference of 67 games. That makes a huge difference in WAR.

 

I mean, really?? Come on man. If you're going to make all of these points, at least try to understand what you're talking about.

 

Okay. Drew and Reddick played 168 games in 2011 and put up a 1.6WAR. Ross played 121 games and put up a 0.9WAR. (121/168)*1.6= 1.15, which is still higher than Ross'

[SoxFanForsyth]

SSS. Cmon man' date=' really? You say he was stunted by his home park, which is a pitcher's park. Now you are saying he is stunted by all parks that could be construed as pitcher's parks. That's called baseball, some parks are better than others. Doesnt mean dick when it comes to his performance. As a full time player, he's a guy who is a low .700s OPS guy. If they platoon him when Crawford comes back and be sure to give him lefty matchups, then he'll be more than that.[/quote']

 

Wow. Man. Homerism at it's best right there.

 

He hits well in hitters parks. Fenway is a hitters park. He will hit well at Fenway Park. NY is a hitter's park. Camden Yards is a hitters park. Toronto is a hitters park.

 

SF is a pitchers park. San Diego is a pitchers park.

 

By moving from a division with terrible hitters parks, including the one where you play your home games, to a division with extremely hitter friendly parks, your numbers are going to get boosted. This is not that difficult to comprehend for most people.

 

If he was able to OPS in the mid-.730's while playing in the NL West, he will be in the .760's and .770's in the AL East at the very least. If he replicated his 2007 and 2008 seasons and OPS'd around .850 with consistent playing time, I wouldn't bat an eye or be surprised in the least. I'm not expecting that, but it wouldn't surprise me either. Pull hitter at Fenway Park is going to pay large dividends for him. By the way - he's going to be the Red Sox everyday RF, so he won't be stealing time from Crawford. I don't know who you had penciled in to RF for the Sox for that to have worked out.

[Palodios]

I would like the Sox to look at Iglesias this spring to see where he is mainly because one rational for the corner they appear to be boxing themselves into at SS is bringing Iglesias up sooner rather than later. Were it not for that I would say, leave the kid in the system. He is ridiculously young. So, he has the time to develop. However the Sox "plan" appears to be to push Iglesias.

 

It has looked like that almost from day 1 for him. Getting rid of Scuts may not have been part of that plan but hard to argue that they have not been pushing Iglesias. Maybe he should not even be playing AAA yet given that he probably would be better served with more plate appearances against pitchers at a AA level.

 

Hard to fathom why the Sox have gone down this road with him. It is not like they did not at least have serviceable options at SS. I don't like the comparisons to Smith at this stage of his career either. Anybody making those comparisons would have to have seen Smith play collage ball in California back in 1976. Think there are many guys around that saw a relevant amount of Smith playing college ball and have seen Iglesias play in the Red Sox system? If Iglesias is a diamond in the rough and some of these comparisons are valid then one thing to keep in mind is that Smith was 23 years old before he put on his first MLB uniform.

 

Now that the Sox have shored up the outfield I guess we will mainly see Aviles at SS with Punto spelling him and coming in for defense. I just hope they don't screw Iglesias up. They have already been pushing him along faster than they should have. He may never hit if he never sees anything that he can hit.

 

My impression is that they are set with Aviles at SS, and Punto for utility. The first time Youk/Aviles/Punto/Pedroia gets hurt, they'll probably take a look at how Middlebrooks and Iglesias are doing in AAA, promote one of the two, and move the infield around accordingly. I don't think either of those guys are ready, but with a month or two more development, maybe one will take a big enough step forward.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Okay. Drew and Reddick played 168 games in 2011 and put up a 1.6WAR. Ross played 121 games and put up a 0.9WAR. (121/168)*1.6= 1.15' date=' which is still higher than Ross'[/quote']

 

Park factors play a huge role in this as well and you're completely disregarding that. You're also disregarding the fact that 2011 was the lowest WAR that Cody Ross has had in 5 years.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I swear to god, I'm going to break my f***ing laptop if I keep reading this thread.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I swear to god' date=' I'm going to break my f***ing laptop if I keep reading this thread.[/quote']

 

You and me both man. Some people are just miserable and want to make everyone else miserable too.

[a700hitter]

My impression is that they are set with Aviles at SS' date=' and Punto for utility. The first time Youk/Aviles/Punto/Pedroia gets hurt, they'll probably take a look at how Middlebrooks and Iglesias are doing in AAA, promote one of the two, and move the infield around accordingly. I don't think either of those guys are ready, but with a month or two more development, maybe one will take a big enough step forward.[/quote']I think Bobby V will give Iglesias every chance to win the job, and he won't have to hit a lot to win the job.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think Bobby V will give Iglesias every chance to win the job' date=' and he won't have to hit a lot to win the job.[/quote']

 

Oddly enough, Iglesias has hit well in Spring Training the past two years. .320/.375/.405 line. If he puts up that line and hits that well, he'll be heading to Detroit with the big club.

[Palodios]

I think Bobby V will give Iglesias every chance to win the job' date=' and he won't have to hit a lot to win the job.[/quote']

 

I just don't think there is any reason to rush him up. They already have a weak-bat, sure-glove guy in Nick Punto. If the infield is healthy, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me to call Iggy up quite yet. He'll be up eventually.

[jacksonianmarch]

Park factors play a huge role in this as well and you're completely disregarding that. You're also disregarding the fact that 2011 was the lowest WAR that Cody Ross has had in 5 years.

 

Okay, so let's say park factors negate that final 0.25WAR difference. So effectively, what you are saying is that right now, you havent upgraded the RF position. Okay then, my point stands. If Iglesias is your starting SS, then your team has downgraded

[SoxFanForsyth]

Okay' date=' so let's say park factors negate that final 0.25WAR difference. So effectively, what you are saying is that right now, you havent upgraded the RF position. Okay then, my point stands. If Iglesias is your starting SS, then your team has downgraded[/quote']

 

If you want to be a homer and completely disregard his WAR from the previous 4 seasons that was around 2.5-3.0 per season and use the aberration as a predictor rather than an outlier as it really is, and if you want to predict future performance based on UZR which WAR is strongly tied to yet is by no means a valid predictor of future performance, then sure, you're right.

 

But if you want to look at it properly, then the Sox upgraded significantly in RF. I do think it's funny how you like to include defensive metrics when comparing RF from 2011 to RF in 2012 when you use WAR and ignore the .650 OPS stat from last year to the .750+ OPS that Ross will put up. But then when it comes to defense where Iglesias will be a huge improvement over last years defense, you decided to use OPS only and not compare using any type of defensive metric which would strengthen my argument.

 

But nah, you're not a homer and this is a completely unbiased argument...

[FredLynn]

Yup. You're an expert. Do me a favor. Quit your job, go get hired by the A's as a talent evaluator, and go build the team as a talent evaluator since they are so stupid.

 

You think I'm the one who has blind respect for these guys?? You have blind hatred for them. You have zero understanding of how to evaluate a players talent, as seen by the amount of emphasis you put on Jose Iglesias's stats in AAA as a 21 year old rather than being concerned with bat speed and attributes. He was one of the (if not the) youngest player in AAA in 2011. His numbers were low because he was playing against people who were 2-3 years older than him and that's a lot of developmental time.

 

But I'm just talking to a wall because you're smarter than anyone else and you know better than anyone else. Screw talent and projectability. Just look at numbers. I don't care how old he was or if he was playing at a much more advanced level than most other people his age.

 

 

The comparisons to Ozzie Smith were this. His defense is extremely comparable to Ozzie Smith. He's a defensive wizard at SS. There have been many, many, many talent evaluators who say that his defense is gold glove worthy as is. His bad is never going to be anything outstanding. In Ozzie's first 4 seasons in the MLB, he had a combined .573 OPS. He also had 2 seasons with a WAR over 3, and had a combined 9.1 WAR in his first 4 seasons, which is solid especially considering his offensive output (he only played 110 games in his 4th season, decreasing his value per WAR).

 

Iglesias could very well come up and be a complete defensive wizard with no bat but still be a 3-3.5 WAR player because of his defense being so good. That's what everyone is saying. Borrow from an area of strength (offense) and disburse to an area of weakness (defense up the middle and pitching).

 

Why should I do you any favors? You have a hard time differentiating Hall of Famers from rookies. With that kind of disability its hard to explain things logically.

I never claimed to be an expert at baseball. But neither am I stupid. With proper training and access to data I could probably do just as good a job as some of these talent evaluators that you worship.

All I am willing to grant Iglesias so far is that he shows some promise defensively. Thats it. Any more accolades represent hyperbole.