2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

That's what Valentine was hired to do.

[iortiz]

7:57pm:*The Yankees and Phillies are in hardest on Soler now, Yahoo's Jeff Passan tweets.

 

[SoxSport]

RED SOX BLOG

Adrian Gonzalez on fried chicken in the clubhouse: 'People have to eat'

 

February 15, 2012 10:55 am By Mike McDermott

 

Red Sox first baseman Adrian Gonzalez appeared this morning on ESPN's SportsCenter, where he took questions from Hannah Storm about several topics, including the team's late-season collapse. At one point, Storm made reference to the fact that a handful of Boston pitchers had on occasion enjoyed fried chicken and beer in the clubhouse.

 

"We just didn't play good baseball," Gonzalez said. "People have to eat, whether it's chicken or [whatever]."

 

Gonzalez said that he met his new manager, Bobby Valentine, last week in Boston, and noted the differences in personality between Valentine and Terry Francona. He described Valentine as someone who would stress the details, and also said that it was important for the Red Sox to play every game like it matters.

 

In conclusion, Storm asked Gonzalez the inevitable question about Jeremy Lin. The first baseman said that he sensed the buzz about Lin, a Harvard graduate, during his recent time in Boston.

 

"It was a weird feeling," Gonzalez said, "seeing Boston embrace a guy who plays for a New York team."

 

The beer and chicken thing was useful for the media to highlight because it was a reflection of the lax attitude on the Red Sox which contributed to their collapse. Symptoms of their conditioning problems appeared the previous year as well, with a spate of injuries--and some made note of that.

 

In my view, the real culprits were the management, who ran too loose a ship. The media points fingers at the players, but the management set the tone. Certainly Tito, probably Epstein, and maybe also LL and Henry. Beckett, for example, is a current media target. He may have enjoyed a beer in the clubhouse on off-days, like many other players do, but he had a very good year, and was one of those who started the season as though he was in shape. I give him credit for that, and wish him well this year. Wouldn't mind having a beer with him sometime.

[SoxSport]

I caught Adrian Gonzales on Baseball Tonight---which aired this afternoon (go figure)' date=' and he made it plain that he expects a more solid effort during ST this year, that Valentune will be be more demanding and demand more from the players. That is in start contrast to what went down last Spring if you could read between the lines.[/quote']

 

 

Could be that AdGon suffered from a lack of conditioning in ST as well. In fact, maybe the September collapse was the result of inadequate conditioning to build endurance over the full season. I go back to the bench coach--Brad Mills-- two years ago. I understand he ran a tight ship in ST, and maybe that was missing the last two years with Hale. That will change with Valentine for sure. That's probably why he is here.

 

The pundits are playing up Tampa Bay and playing down the Red Sox this year. Last year, it took a complete collapse by the Sox in September for the Rays to make the playoffs. The Sox would have made the playoffs easily by just playing .500 ball in September. What's different this year? Well, the Sox have a new closer in Bailey/Melancon, maybe a new starter in Bard, a new SS in Aviles/Iglesias and a healthy Buchholz. Plus a new manager who figures to get a strong April start out of a better conditioned team, with more emphasis on fundamentals. Tampa Bay hasn't changed much--still relying on pitching. I give the edge to the Red Sox, assuming they play up to their potential and stay healthy. In fact, I think they'll be right there with NY, which has to hope their pitching matches last year's good fortune, Granderson repeats his slugging, and Jeter/ARod can do it one more time.

[jung]

I don't know about ST conditioning having much to do with what happens in September of any year. In the first place ST is not long enough to get in condition. Players need to show up in condition and then hone their baseball skills in ST.

 

Then they need to stay in decent shape throughout the season without working so hard that they run out of gas.

 

There are good many things that V will change. It already sounds like he is going to run a tougher ST. But in baseball conditioning is still the responsibility of the player. Either he shows up ready to go or he does not. Either he takes decent care of himself through the season or he does not.

 

Last year as an example many players gained weight during the season! They gained so much weight that they were noticeably bigger during the season than when the season started. Pretty hard thing to do when you think about it but a good many of our guys managed to pull it off.

[mvp 78]

September was entirely on the players. I can see how ST could have affected the slow start, but not the finish.

[a700hitter]

September was entirely on the players. I can see how ST could have affected the slow start' date=' but not the finish.[/quote']It was theirs to lose at the end and they lost it, but they came out of a lazy and lethargic Spring Training and that's how they payed when the bell rang. If they had played just .400 ball in their first 10 games they make the playoffs. A win in April is worth the same as a win in September. The lazy spring camp and slow start helped cost them a playoff spot.

[Muggah]

It was theirs to lose at the end and they lost it' date=' but they came out of a lazy and lethargic Spring Training and that's how they payed when the bell rang. If they had played just .400 ball in their first 10 games they make the playoffs. A win in April is worth the same as a win in September. The lazy spring camp and slow start helped cost them a playoff spot.[/quote']

 

Never been able to figure out why so many Sox fans don't get that.

[mvp 78]

It was theirs to lose at the end and they lost it' date=' but they came out of a lazy and lethargic Spring Training and that's how they payed when the bell rang. If they had played just .400 ball in their first 10 games they make the playoffs. A win in April is worth the same as a win in September. The lazy spring camp and slow start helped cost them a playoff spot.[/quote']

 

I agree. ST affected April not September.

[mvp 78]

Never been able to figure out why so many Sox fans don't get that.

 

Even if they won 2 extra games in April, they weren't winning anything in the playoffs, not with the way they played down the stretch.

[a700hitter]

Even if they won 2 extra games in April' date=' they weren't winning anything in the playoffs, not with the way they played down the stretch.[/quote']They were beyond flat at the end, but that doesn't always carry over to the post season. The 2000 Yankees and 2006 Cards come to mind. Both of those teams were circling the drains when the regular season ended.

[a700hitter]

Pitchers and catchers report on Sunday. Wakefield and Varitek have still not retired. I wonder if they will report on Sunday. Reports were that Wakefield would make his decision last week. Does no announcement signifies that he will come to camp. There are no reports that either of them have rejected the minor league deals.

[redsoxfan3]

It was theirs to lose at the end and they lost it' date=' but they came out of a lazy and lethargic Spring Training and that's how they payed when the bell rang. If they had played just .400 ball in their first 10 games they make the playoffs. A win in April is worth the same as a win in September. The lazy spring camp and slow start helped cost them a playoff spot.[/quote']

 

While this is true, there is also a lot more pressure at the end of the season then there is at the beginning. I am not saying one win is more important than another, but at the end of the year you know exactly what you have to do to make the playoffs and where you stand. That does not justify the reason why the Sox had a horrible end to the season, I just think you have to keep that in mind. If we can have a better start the season this year and a more consistent year, then I think that will be one big thing to help us out this year.

[a700hitter]

While this is true' date=' there is also a lot more pressure at the end of the season then there is at the beginning. I am not saying one win is more important than another, but at the end of the year you know exactly what you have to do to make the playoffs and where you stand. That does not justify the reason why the Sox had a horrible end to the season, I just think you have to keep that in mind. If we can have a better start the season this year and a more consistent year, then I think that will be one big thing to help us out this year.[/quote']Yes, there is more pressure at the end, and after a long season there were injuries that were impeding the team's performance. It is for those very reasons that the games lost at the beginning of the season were inexcusable. At the beginning of the season, the team was healthy and there wasn't a lot of pressure. Talented experienced teams like the Red Sox should win their share of those games. Instead they had a record setting poor start. A few more wins at the beginning of the season would have lifted some of the pressure at the end of the season.

[Muggah]

Pitchers and catchers report on Sunday. Wakefield and Varitek have still not retired. I wonder if they will report on Sunday. Reports were that Wakefield would make his decision last week. Does no announcement signifies that he will come to camp. There are no reports that either of them have rejected the minor league deals.

 

Silence, in this case, most likely means they're both planning on showing up.

[Muggah]

SOURCE: SOX SIGN OHLENDORF

By: Alex Speier

 

FORT MYERS -- An industry source has confirmed to WEEI.com that the Red Sox have signed veteran right-hander Ross Ohlendorf to a minor-league contract.

 

Ohlendorf had an 8.15 ERA in eight appearances (all starts) with the Pirates in 2011 and was released by Pittsburgh after the season. The 29-year-old Ohlendorf, a Princeton graduate, had his best season with the Pirates in 2009, winning 11 games with a 3.92 ERA in 29 starts.

 

Peter Gammons was first to report the deal between the Sox and Ohlendorf.

[mvp 78]

Silence' date=' in this case, most likely means they're both planning on showing up.[/quote']

 

I fear for Fred's health if that happens.

[Muggah]

I fear for Fred's health if that happens.

 

That makes two of us.

[Bellhorn04]

It was theirs to lose at the end and they lost it' date=' but they came out of a lazy and lethargic Spring Training and that's how they payed when the bell rang. If they had played just .400 ball in their first 10 games they make the playoffs. A win in April is worth the same as a win in September. The lazy spring camp and slow start helped cost them a playoff spot.[/quote']

 

I can't say for sure that a lazy spring camp didn't contribute to the 2-10 start.

 

But the Rays started 1-8. Was that also because of a lazy spring camp?

 

The cause-effect thing is a little shaky.

[redsoxfan3]

Yes' date=' there is more pressure at the end, and after a long season there were injuries that were impeding the team's performance. It is for those very reasons that the games lost at the beginning of the season were inexcusable. At the beginning of the season, the team was healthy and there wasn't a lot of pressure. Talented experienced teams like the Red Sox should win their share of those games. Instead they had a record setting poor start. A few more wins at the beginning of the season would have lifted some of the pressure at the end of the season.[/quote']

 

I agree. We need to be prepared at all times. Come into camp ready to work and do everything to be prepared for opening day. You do make good points. I am just looking for more consistency. It is a very very long season. If we are one of the most consistent teams from game 1 to game 162, our chances of being successful are that much better. I just hope Bobby V can help prepare this team better, that way we are ready for the entire season. I am looking for a stronger start. On paper people we may not look as good as the Yankees or Rays (pitching wise), but if we go out and execute and don't take any days off, we will be able to compete with both teams.

[SoxSport]

September was entirely on the players. I can see how ST could have affected the slow start' date=' but not the finish.[/quote']

 

Players weren't properly conditioned to play a full season. That may have been AdGon's problem--not a "weak" shoulder.

 

Lack of conditioning also increases the chance of injury. That was probably true the year before, too. You look at what changed, and it was Brad Mills, the bench coach leaving. Hale was probably too lax in ST, and Tito didn't stay on top of things. Mills, reading about his managing in Houston, is more of a discipline guy.

[SoxSport]

I agree. We need to be prepared at all times. Come into camp ready to work and do everything to be prepared for opening day. You do make good points. I am just looking for more consistency. It is a very very long season. If we are one of the most consistent teams from game 1 to game 162' date=' our chances of being successful are that much better. I just hope Bobby V can help prepare this team better, that way we are ready for the entire season. I am looking for a stronger start. On paper people we may not look as good as the Yankees or Rays (pitching wise), but if we go out and execute and don't take any days off, we will be able to compete with both teams.[/quote']

 

if I were a gambling man, I'd put money on the Red Sox to rebound strongly. I think they will leave TB in the dust, and give the Yankees a fight. With the talent they have, they are bound to be much better.

[redsoxfan3]

Players weren't properly conditioned to play a full season. That may have been AdGon's problem--not a "weak" shoulder.

 

Lack of conditioning also increases the chance of injury. That was probably true the year before, too. You look at what changed, and it was Brad Mills, the bench coach leaving. Hale was probably too lax in ST, and Tito didn't stay on top of things. Mills, reading about his managing in Houston, is more of a discipline guy.

 

Does anyone know much about Pat Sandora? He is our strength and conditioning coach. Is he someone that will make sure that this team will stay on top of things and do their workouts? Any other coaches that will make sure these players will stay focused this Spring? I know a little about some of the coaches, but not really enough to know if they will make sure this team stays on top of everything.

[redsoxfan3]

if I were a gambling man' date=' I'd put money on the Red Sox to rebound strongly. I think they will leave TB in the dust, and give the Yankees a fight. With the talent they have, they are bound to be much better.[/quote']

 

I think that we can rebound strongly, we just need to make sure we are properly prepared for the season and we need to fill some question marks with our pitching staff. If we can come up with a reliable rotation, then I think we will be able to be right there with the Yanks. I think we are a better team than Tampa, mainly due to our offense, but I also thought that all year long last year and we all know how that turned out. We just can't underestimate anyone.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox announced that they signed first baseman Mauro Gomez to a minor league contract that includes an invitation to Spring Training. Gomez, 27, spent the 2011 season with the Braves' top affiliate and led the International League with 264 total bases. The Dominican Republic native had 24 homers and 34 doubles at Triple-A last year.

[mvp 78]

Players weren't properly conditioned to play a full season. That may have been AdGon's problem--not a "weak" shoulder.

 

Lack of conditioning also increases the chance of injury. That was probably true the year before, too. You look at what changed, and it was Brad Mills, the bench coach leaving. Hale was probably too lax in ST, and Tito didn't stay on top of things. Mills, reading about his managing in Houston, is more of a discipline guy.

 

Conditioning in September has to due with training programs run during the season, not ST.

 

You can be effectively conditioned in ST, then become a fat POS by not eating well and working out during the year.

[a700hitter]

I can't say for sure that a lazy spring camp didn't contribute to the 2-10 start.

 

But the Rays started 1-8. Was that also because of a lazy spring camp?

 

The cause-effect thing is a little shaky.

For those who were at Spring Training to watch them go through the motions with almost no enthusiasm and certainly no hard work, most believe that there was a carryover effect, especially in light of the lackluster play in the first two weeks. The Rays slow start has nothing to do with the causality of the Red Sox slow start.

[Bellhorn04]

For those who were at Spring Training to watch them go through the motions with almost no enthusiasm and certainly no hard work' date=' most believe that there was a carryover effect, especially in light of the lackluster play in the first two weeks. The Rays slow start has nothing to do with the causality of the Red Sox slow start.[/quote']

 

The Rays slow start shows that there can be slow starts for no apparent reason. The Red Sox first six games were on the road against teams that got off to very hot starts.

 

I'm just quibbling really...I can't prove anything, I just think people jumped on the bad spring training as an easy explanation for the bad start and I'm not really convinced of it. As for September, that's a different story. There was definitely something serriously wrong there. And I do think Francona had to pay the price for it.

[jung]

For a team with that much "talent" or purported talent to have gotten off the the start that the Sox got off to was inexcusable. As I said earlier, maybe playing 500 ball OK, even 400 ball, OK, 142 ball....sorry....inexcusable.

[User Name]

The Rays slow start shows that there can be slow starts for no apparent reason. The Red Sox first six games were on the road against teams that got off to very hot starts.

 

I'm just quibbling really...I can't prove anything, I just think people jumped on the bad spring training as an easy explanation for the bad start and I'm not really convinced of it. As for September, that's a different story. There was definitely something serriously wrong there. And I do think Francona had to pay the price for it.

 

You're wasting your time.