2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Muggah]

I reserve the personal insults to those who have insulted me first. If you disagree, show me where I initiated that kind of thing. Also, I do not call people who disagree with me "rumpswabs" or "ass kissers". Again, if you disagree, show me where I have intiated that. Fact is, I am not in favor of that stuff. I am not making exceptions for anyone. You get insulted here and you have IMO a right to respond if you choose.

So either show me where I have been inconsistent.........or shut up.

 

 

Hahaha...Bottom line here, Pumps, is that it looks like we've got a few more thin-skinned Sox groupies with a penchant for lashing out at anyone daring enough to offer up honest opinion. Nothing we haven't dealt with before. They're a dime a dozen.

[Emmz]

Hahaha...Bottom line here' date=' Pumps, is that it looks like we've got a few more thin-skinned Sox groupies with a penchant for lashing out at anyone daring enough to offer up honest opinion. Nothing we haven't dealt with before. They're a dime a dozen.[/quote']

 

Except your version of "honest opinion" is being as intolerably depressive and deluded as you can. If you think I'm intolerant of realism or even some pessimism, that's just further testament to your delusions. I always get a chuckle when someone tells you to stop calling names, then calls you thin-skinned. Isn't that doubly hypocritical? Grats.

[Bellhorn04]

Have you and Bellhorn given some thought about just how enthusiastic and committed Roy Oswalt is going to be if we do get him? It seems obvious to me that he doesn't want to play in Boston and though like you I would like him for our 4th spot in the rotation and think that would make us much better' date=' what kind of a mindset would the guy have pitching for us when he'd rather be somewhere else? Is he also worried, fearful, scared that he will not be able to handle the American League? These questions seem silly, I know, but you have to wonder about the guy and why he doesn't want any part of Boston. How might that play in the heat of a pennant race?[/quote']

 

I hear you on all that. If we can sign him for $5 million or so though, I think the risk is worth it.

[jung]

Comcast Sportsnet just talkin' about Oswalt claims that the prevailing rumor is that Oswalt is down to Sox and Cards. Frankly I find it hard to believe that Oswalt is seriously considering the Sox but who knows.....stranger things have happened.

[FredLynn]

I hear you on all that. If we can sign him for $5 million or so though' date=' I think the risk is worth it.[/quote']

 

If we are already over the cap, as it seems we are, then we should get him for whatevery it takes, within reason. I think one year at $7M would do it.

[jung]

I think the real threat on Oswalt is not anybody we have heard about so far. I don't think the Cards are going to guarantee Oswalt a chance to start or they would have by now. I still don't think he will want to come to Boston.

 

So I would look for another NL Team (who knows which) that decides that the money is so short that they decide to jump in and pick Oswalt up, keeping him in the NL and in the rotation. He may still come to Boston under those circumstances but at that point it will boil down to the difference between what this hypothetical NL team offers hims and what the Sox offer him. If for example an NL team offers him $5M that probably pushes the Sox to $8M, etc.

[SCM33]

I think his PERFORMANCE is a piece of s***' date=' disgusting, selfish...and whatever other colorful names you want to ascribe to it. [/quote']

Thats not the way it was worded. If thats not what he meant (muggah) or what you mean, then choose your words better. When I call someone an idiot, its deserved.....the original post was deserving.

 

Admittedly many of the Sawxhead group posting here can be pretty tough on players but I've read your missives and you're not exactly a goodie-two shoes yourself' date=' and getting personal with public figures is par for the course---getting personal with fellow posters is low down and cowardly.[/quote']

Yeah, well I hate to break it to you, but I piss people off over here at times too because I am also critical of the Redsox......do you know why I do not post about it 50 times a day? Because nobody wants to hear it. Everyone around here knows what I think, there is no reason the say the same negative s*** over and over every single day.....and again, its not personal.....its the internet. You want to talk about thin skinned? You take the internet personal, thats thin skinned my friend.

 

I know only a few people here personally. For those people I would like their respect as they have mine. As for everyone else, including you, its just not that important. In particular, YOU are not that important to me. Perhaps if I met you personally I would change my mind.

As for the name calling, its my opinion that it has no place in a public forum except occasionally in self defense. You obviously have a different opinion. Go for it if it makes you feel better. I am not your father, nor am I Muggah's or Fred's father. I stated my own feelings on the topic for everyone to see (and yes, its consistent for everyone), but in the end everyone does what they feel is right.

If its not that important, then why do you keep responding? If everyone around here is "thin skinned" then why do you take the remark "idiot" about your boy from sawxheads so personal? Why do you take this forum personal?

 

Hahaha...Bottom line here' date=' Pumps, is that it looks like we've got a few more thin-skinned Sox groupies with a penchant for lashing out at anyone daring enough to offer up honest opinion. Nothing we haven't dealt with before. They're a dime a dozen.[/quote']

Right, because you are the ones thinking that you are being attacked......hows that "thick skin" working out for you? Everything around here is personal to you guys. There is nothing wrong with an honest opinion....I actually share much of the same opinions some of you guys have. The problem is, everyone is sick of hearing the same s*** over and over.

 

On the actual topic, I hope to hell that Oswalt is coming to Boston......otherwise, they have some questions to answer about why their starting SS was traded. They said he was traded to make room for a pitcher.......so I hope that happens.

[User Name]

And the award to excellence in posting goes to......

[iortiz]

Comcast Sportsnet just talkin' about Oswalt claims that the prevailing rumor is that Oswalt is down to Sox and Cards. Frankly I find it hard to believe that Oswalt is seriously considering the Sox but who knows.....stranger things have happened.

 

I want that a strange thing happens Jung.

 

On the other hand, if this guy does not want to come for whatever reason, Ben shall take away that offer right away.

[a700hitter]

Some people urged patience and extolled Benny Boy's measured careful approach. They said it 's just Thanksgiving. No one is making major moves. Then it was, it's only Christmas. There's plenty of time and plenty available options. Well,here we are at Truck Day, and we still don't have our pitching situation settled. We came into the off season needing 2 -3 pitchers at a minimum. We lost two pitchers-- Wheeler and Papelbon, and we picked up 2 pitchers Melancon and Bailey. We are still short. There are only a few days left. Oswalt is low hanging fruit. I am getting sick of the "he doesn't want to pitch in Boston" stories in the press. The guy is a professional without too many suitors. All the big boys are out of the hunt. They need to sign this guy. Time is getting damn short. This team is much thinner than the roster that collapsed last year. What are they thinking. Do they think Bobby V can use smoke and mirrors every 5th day? I'm not seeing the plan if they don't get Oswalt.

[Elktonnick]

Some people urged patience and extolled Benny Boy's measured careful approach. They said it 's just Thanksgiving. No one is making major moves. Then it was' date=' it's only Christmas. There's plenty of time and plenty available options. Well,here we are at Truck Day, and we still don't have our pitching situation settled. We came into the off season needing 2 -3 pitchers at a minimum. We lost two pitchers-- Wheeler and Papelbon, and we picked up 2 pitchers Melancon and Bailey. We are still short. There are only a few days left. Oswalt is low hanging fruit. I am getting sick of the "he doesn't want to pitch in Boston" stories in the press. The guy is a professional without too many suitors. All the big boys are out of the hunt. They need to sign this guy. Time is getting damn short. This team is much thinner than the roster that collapsed last year. What are they thinking. Do they think Bobby V can use smoke and mirrors every 5th day? I'm not seeing the plan if they don't get Oswalt.[/quote']

 

I agree. I alawys thought Cherrington was more indecisive than deliberate. I can't help but notice Larry's recent statements regarding payroll which appear to undercut Ben's comments. We are certainly getting mixed messages out of Yawkey Way. Sometimes I get the feeling that these guys don't talk to one another.

[mvp 78]

A700, people were freaking out and saying "the Sox are falling behind" 2 weeks into the offseason. It's just not a reasonable expectation to have major moves that early. It doesn't happen. Should he have had more done by Christmas, probably. However, what we are seeing this offseason is less a reflection of Ben being slow to move and more of a reflection of ownership being miserly. Letting Scutaro go because of $6M was dumb. Not signing a better SP just compounded the issue.

 

Don't act like all this negative posting is soothsaying. We're still hearing garbage about Varitek and Wakefield, but those predictions haven't come true. Why not mention that? You're not going to because your whole internet gimmick is to constantly pat yourself on the back, but overlook the times you've been wrong.

 

Everyone on here was in agreement about ownership needing to spend $$$ to get a decent SP. Clearly that didn't happen.

 

Offseasons evolve and take time to develop. Expecting a full roster by Thanksgiving is beyond ridiculous. The only pitcher they lost out on was Buerhle at that point.

[Palodios]

Some people urged patience and extolled Benny Boy's measured careful approach. They said it 's just Thanksgiving. No one is making major moves. Then it was' date=' it's only Christmas. There's plenty of time and plenty available options. Well,here we are at Truck Day, and we still don't have our pitching situation settled. We came into the off season needing 2 -3 pitchers at a minimum. We lost two pitchers-- Wheeler and Papelbon, and we picked up 2 pitchers Melancon and Bailey. We are still short. There are only a few days left. Oswalt is low hanging fruit. I am getting sick of the "he doesn't want to pitch in Boston" stories in the press. The guy is a professional without too many suitors. All the big boys are out of the hunt. They need to sign this guy. Time is getting damn short. This team is much thinner than the roster that collapsed last year. What are they thinking. Do they think Bobby V can use smoke and mirrors every 5th day? I'm not seeing the plan if they don't get Oswalt.[/quote']

 

I think that there are two ways to look at this. If BC doesn't get Oswalt, he failed to address the team's biggest need. However, if he does get Oswalt, I think this offseason will look like a very quiet, yet very glowing success.

 

With limited resources, he picked up two closers, a catcher who can throw out runners, held onto the best bat that cost less than 200 million, a very good defensive utility team-guy, a .350 OBP outfielder, and a very solid RH RF option. And he signed more pitching depth than any team in the majors.

 

Oswalt is the key to this offseason. Will all this patience pay off, or was the Scutaro trade all for nothing?

[mvp 78]

I agree. I alawys thought Cherrington was more indecisive than deliberate. I can't help but notice Larry's recent statements regarding payroll which appear to undercut Ben's comments. We are certainly getting mixed messages out of Yawkey Way. Sometimes I get the feeling that these guys don't talk to one another.

 

They talk, it's just Ben doesn't want to say "I'd like to get pitching but ownership is too cheap to do so as they are butthurt over the Lackey and Crawford signings."

[mvp 78]

I think that there are two ways to look at this. If BC doesn't get Oswalt, he failed to address the team's biggest need. However, if he does get Oswalt, I think this offseason will look like a very quiet, yet very glowing success.

 

With limited resources, he picked up two closers, a catcher who can throw out runners, held onto the best bat that cost less than 200 million, a very good defensive utility team-guy, a .350 OBP outfielder, and a very solid RH RF option. And he signed more pitching depth than any team in the majors.

 

Oswalt is the key to this offseason. Will all this patience pay off, or was the Scutaro trade all for nothing?

 

Limited resources? This is the Boston Red Sox, not Kansas City Royals.

[Bellhorn04]

Limited resources? This is the Boston Red Sox' date=' not Kansas City Royals.[/quote']

 

Yes, but the Red Sox came into the 2012 offseason with payroll commitments that left very little room under the LT threshold, and regardless of how wealthy the team is, ownership does have a budget. So Cherington did have limited resources allocated to him.

[Elktonnick]

Limited resources? This is the Boston Red Sox' date=' not Kansas City Royals.[/quote']

 

That's why I say there are mixed messages coming out of Yawkey Way. I do get the feeling that Llarry's public comments recently have the net effect of undercutting Cherries' comments and credibility.

[mvp 78]

Yes' date=' but the Red Sox came into the 2012 offseason with payroll commitments that left very little room under the LT threshold, and regardless of how wealthy the team is, ownership does have a budget. So Cherington did have limited resources allocated to him.[/quote']

 

The luxury tax shouldn't matter to the Sox. They could afford a much larger payroll. It just shouldn't be a part of the equation.

[mvp 78]

That's why I say there are mixed messages coming out of Yawkey Way. I do get the feeling that Llarry's public comments recently have the net effect of undercutting Cherries' comments and credibility.

 

Oh, I'd agree with that. LL seems to be a slimeball or just loves throwing people under the bus. I'm all for him going elsewhere.

[Elktonnick]

The luxury tax shouldn't matter to the Sox. They could afford a much larger payroll. It just shouldn't be a part of the equation.

 

In efect that was what Lucchino said. So why is Ben crying poor mouth and trying to save 3 million dllrs to maintain "flexibility" by trading Scuturo prematurely?

[Palodios]

Limited resources? This is the Boston Red Sox' date=' not Kansas City Royals.[/quote']

 

3.9 Bailey.

1.5 Punto

1.35 Shoppach

3 Ross

-6 Scutaro

 

 

3.75 Million dollars. Yeah, that sounds like limited resources to me.

[Elktonnick]

Oh' date=' I'd agree with that. LL seems to be a slimeball or just loves throwing people under the bus. I'm all for him going elsewhere.[/quote']

 

Larry isn't going anywhere. For better or worse he is the brains behind this operation and JH knows it.

[mvp 78]

3.9 Bailey.

1.5 Punto

1.35 Shoppach

3 Ross

-6 Scutaro

 

 

3.75 Million dollars. Yeah, that sounds like limited resources to me.

 

That's horrible logic. Ownership has money. They should spend it.

[mvp 78]

In efect that was what Lucchino said. So why is Ben crying poor mouth and trying to save 3 million dllrs to maintain "flexibility" by trading Scuturo prematurely?

 

Also, if you need flexibility, why trade a cheap Lowrie? That part, I don't get. I think people would be more comfortable with a Lowrie/Aviles platoon than what they have now. This only works if Melancon is lights out and Bard transforms into a SP.

[Bellhorn04]

That's horrible logic. Ownership has money. They should spend it.

 

How much? Would you like to see us go flying past the Yankees to a $250 million payroll?

[Elktonnick]

Also' date=' if you need flexibility, why trade a cheap Lowrie? That part, I don't get. I think people would be more comfortable with a Lowrie/Aviles platoon than what they have now. This only works if Melancon is lights out and Bard transforms into a SP.[/quote']

 

My thoughts exactly!!

[Bellhorn04]

Larry did this last offseason too. Just when we were starting to get antsy about another bridge year, he told us all they were hoping to make two major acquisitions, one by trade and one free agent. And lo it came to pass. He seems to be the guy who is sent to reassure us that it's still party time for Sox fans.

[mvp 78]

How much? Would you like to see us go flying past the Yankees to a $250 million payroll?

 

Why not? If it's on short term deals for Oswalt/Beltran/etc there's little harm in overspending. If it's on 4-5 year deals, no.

[Bellhorn04]

Why not? If it's on short term deals for Oswalt/Beltran/etc there's little harm in overspending. If it's on 4-5 year deals' date=' no.[/quote']

 

Oswalt could still happen. Seems like Boston is the last place he wants to play unfortunately.

[Bellhorn04]

That's why I say there are mixed messages coming out of Yawkey Way. I do get the feeling that Llarry's public comments recently have the net effect of undercutting Cherries' comments and credibility.

 

No big deal nick. Look at the Yankees brouhaha about Soriano last year and Cashman distancing himself from a move that was made from over his head.

 

The good thing for Cash was that other people helping him with the deals freed up time for him to pursue new lady friends.