Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Dipre]

Earlier today I was disappointed by the lack of discussion on this board lately.

 

Now I just wish I was still disappointed.

 

Are people seriously discussion Coco Crisp coming back and Gabe Kaplar and Mark Kotsay? Those guys may come back but, as with the original signings of Kaplar and Kotsay, neither deserves more than a passing comment.

 

Someone say something intelligent or thought provoking soon. Please...

 

Hey old-timer.

 

Finding a reliable backup OF is a real issue for this team.

[Dojji]

No one is talking about Kapler as a starting LF. Right now it's pretty clear that Plan A1 is Holliday and Plan A2 is Bay for that position. However, a solid backup who's more dependable than Baldelli is a benefit.

[roary]

I think we need to consider who brought up Coco and Kapler in the first place here.

[example1]

Hey old-timer.

 

Finding a reliable backup OF is a real issue for this team.

 

Shoot me now.

 

Finding a reliable backup OF has led to the signings of Kaplar and Kotsay and Baldelli. It's a semi-important thing but to seriously discuss whether or not Coco should come back and immediately be benched and that the he'll sit on the bench and f***ing like it is enough to make me want to just close my computer and watch the NLCS.

 

OF discussion? Important.

 

Stupid tangents about guys who were traded last year and who were disgruntled about their experience in Boston and then telling them to sit their ass down? Boring and nonsensical.

 

Aren't there any better 4th OF possiblities out there?

[Dipre]

I think we need to consider who brought up Coco and Kapler in the first place here.

 

We'd been talking Coco long before he mentioned it.

 

Your point still stands though.

[example1]

No one is talking about Kapler as a starting LF. Right now it's pretty clear that Plan A1 is Holliday and Plan A2 is Bay for that position. However' date=' a solid backup who's more dependable than Baldelli is a benefit.[/quote']

 

Holliday would be my plan A1, but I'm not sure he is the Sox plan A1. I'm not sure they feel like playing any of Boras's reindeer games.

[roary]

 

Stupid tangents about guys who were traded last year and who were disgruntled about their experience in Boston and then telling them to sit their ass down? Boring and nonsensical.

 

 

I can assure you that everyone agrees with you on this

[Dojji]

Aren't there any better 4th OF possiblities out there?

 

How many people do you think there are out there who are willing to take a backup outfield role and are also half decent at it?

 

I mean, most guys who would be really, really great 4th outfielders (say, David Dejesus) would rather be mediocre starters. Because that's where the money is.

 

it's kind of like finding a really, really good middle reliever. The ones that can really handle that job well tend to rise past it.

[Dipre]

Shoot me now.

 

Finding a reliable backup OF has led to the signings of Kaplar and Kotsay and Baldelli. It's a semi-important thing but to seriously discuss whether or not Coco should come back and immediately be benched and that the he'll sit on the bench and f***ing like it is enough to make me want to just close my computer and watch the NLCS.

 

OF discussion? Important.

 

Stupid tangents about guys who were traded last year and who were disgruntled about their experience in Boston and then telling them to sit their ass down? Boring and nonsensical.

 

Aren't there any better 4th OF possiblities out there?

 

I'd grant that request if i could.

 

I have no idea honestly.

[bsox0407]

Holliday would be my plan A1' date=' but I'm not sure he is the Sox plan A1. I'm not sure they feel like playing any of Boras's reindeer games.[/quote']

 

i think boras will screw with the sox like he did with tex.

[bostonule25]

Kotchman for Johnny Gomes and PTBNL? Great power bat off the bench

[Dojji]

Kotchman for Johnny Gomes and PTBNL? Great power bat off the bench

 

Three years ago that would have been a blockbuster.

[a700hitter]

Kotchman needs to be moved. He has no future on this team. Again, he'll be the odd man out with VMart and Youk sharing first base. He has no power and no speed. His PHing stats suck, and Tito doesn't use PHers anyway. Get rid of him.

[bsox0407]

Kotchman needs to be moved. He has no future on this team. Again' date=' he'll be the odd man out with VMart and Youk sharing first base. He has no power and no speed. His PHing stats suck, and Tito doesn't use PHers anyway. Get rid of him.[/quote']

 

this is a must. kotchman is not needeed on this team. they could use him in a trade. he will have value for some team.

[bostonule25]

Three years ago that would have been a blockbuster.

haha true. But seriously, Gomes off the bench would do wonders for this team. Especially since we're lacking in the power department. He'd be a great power bat off the bench in late innings.

[bostonule25]

this is a must. kotchman is not needeed on this team. they could use him in a trade. he will have value for some team.

The white sox need a 1b

[Dipre]

haha true. But seriously' date=' Gomes off the bench would do wonders for this team. Especially since we're lacking in the power department. He'd be a great power bat off the bench in late innings.[/quote']

 

IIRC he can play the corners and 1B, but he's a horrible horrible defender.

[Cocos Disciples]

Shoot me now.

 

Finding a reliable backup OF has led to the signings of Kaplar and Kotsay and Baldelli. It's a semi-important thing but to seriously discuss whether or not Coco should come back and immediately be benched and that the he'll sit on the bench and f***ing like it is enough to make me want to just close my computer and watch the NLCS.

 

OF discussion? Important.

 

Stupid tangents about guys who were traded last year and who were disgruntled about their experience in Boston and then telling them to sit their ass down? Boring and nonsensical.

 

Aren't there any better 4th OF possiblities out there?

 

I don't want Coco back either, but of all the stupid s*** that's discussed on this site, I think 4th outfielder is a fairly legit topic. Maybe not in the "sit his azz down and he'll like it!!!!1" sense, but it could be worse. We could be talking about what cup size Emmz has.

 

What's that, that was the main topic of discussion today?

[bostonule25]

We could keep Brian Anderson for D? more of a waste of a roster spot though imo. Idk, I just think Gomes is a type of hitter the sox need of the bench. Kotchman has no value with the logjam at 1b on our team.

[Dipre]

We could keep Brian Anderson for D? more of a waste of a roster spot though imo. Idk' date=' I just think Gomes is a type of hitter the sox need of the bench. Kotchman has no value with the logjam at 1b on our team.[/quote']

 

I meant getting Gomes to be the main backup at 1B and occasional OF work, but we'd need a capable OF (not Anderson) for late-inning D purposes and injury backup.

[TheKilo]

Kapler is also in FA along with Kotsay who can play the outfield.

 

Everyone would love to see Kapler back in Boston

 

Really? Everyone? I was thinking only people who are fans of terrible baseball players.

[example1]

i think boras will screw with the sox like he did with tex.

 

Part of me agrees with you. The other part of me thinks that Boras likes to spread the wealth. I don't think it is in his interest to have teams stop negotiating with him or to just assume that they can't work with him. He sends top tier players to NY because they'll pay more for them, but he would be leaving a lot of money on the table if he didn't negotiate with the Sox and Dodgers and Cubs too.

 

A guy like Holliday seems right on the line of players who secondary teams make a run at, pay a lot, and the Yankees don't really jump into the conversation (other than to say "nah, we don't want to pay Holliday $19m a year").

[Dojji]

We can't just shun Boras anyway. He can hang Jacoby Ellsbury over our heads if we do.

[Keeper]

The white sox need a 1b

 

They still have Konerko.

[a700hitter]

I don't want Coco back either' date=' but of all the stupid s*** that's discussed on this site, I think 4th outfielder is a fairly legit topic. Maybe not in the "sit his azz down and he'll like it!!!!1" sense, but it could be worse. [b']We could be talking about what cup size Emmz has.[/b]

What's that, that was the main topic of discussion today?

To be fair and accurate, we did discuss her preference for certain sexual positions and her ability to deftly transition from one position to another. These are worthy topics when the Sox are finished and the Yanks are up 3-1 in the ALCS.

[bsox0407]

I don't want Coco back either' date=' but of all the stupid s*** that's discussed on this site, I think 4th outfielder is a fairly legit topic. Maybe not in the [b']"sit his azz down and he'll like it!!!!1"[/b] sense, but it could be worse. We could be talking about what cup size Emmz has.

 

What's that, that was the main topic of discussion today?

 

what i meant is that if someone complains about playing time that should be sat. They get paid whether or not they play. hey f*** that ill take league minimum to sit on a MLB bench. i was saying this because before we traded him he was bitching and complaining. if i was manager of the team that player would not be playing anytime soon. i mean if he complains openly to the media. i doubt with the outfield situation we have, he will not want to come back to be a bench player when he can start on some other teams.

 

we need to look in other areas for a 4th outfielder. Kapler(which i know some don't like), dave roberts in FA why not him.

 

maybe we just bring up reddick as our 4th outfielder. he is a good top prospect.

 

that leaves us with signing of Bay or Holliday. Trading to get a 1B or a catcher. And going after some pitching.

 

Pitching wise. Felix is top of the list. but it is more like a pipe dream to me every time i think about it. Lackey would not be a bad sign to be a 4-5 guy. Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Dice-k or Wake(if he does indeed come back).

 

SS- is an area where we need help. but this Iglesias guy seems to be highly talked about and i think we just need a player to bridge in between the now and the Iglesias time.

[example1]

What would people think about the Sox looking at Randy Winn as a 4th OF? He's been a starter most of his career and he's a type B, both of which go against them acquiring him for anything reasonable cost wise. However, he can play all 3 OF positions, LF and RF above average. He's had a decent career he's relatively versatile and healthy. Also, remarkably, he's never played in the playoffs before--a potential selling point on a team like Boston.

 

To me, he's actually similar to an older Coco Crisp, which wouldn't hurt on a one or two year deal, say, $10m over two years. He's averaged 20 SB/162 G, which is a respectable number and tells me he still has some spring in his legs. In 2009 he made $9m+, but that's bound to drop after deal's like Abreu's last offseason and Winn's predictable decline. I don't think he's a bad clubhouse guy or anything and when he ultimately disappears there would likely be a rookie ready to go in his place.

 

It's just a thought. He's nothing too special, but a good defensive 4th OF with some athleticism and veteran presence might not hurt.

[example1]

Pitching wise. Felix is top of the list. but it is more like a pipe dream to me every time i think about it. Lackey would not be a bad sign to be a 4-5 guy. Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Dice-k or Wake(if he does indeed come back).

 

I think it's either Felix, or the above rotation without Lackey. For his expected production I would be surprised (and happy) if they went after him for too much money.

 

SS- is an area where we need help. but this Iglesias guy seems to be highly talked about and i think we just need a player to bridge in between the now and the Iglesias time.

 

I can imagine Iglesias being the Sox starting SS by 2011.

 

1. They signed him to a 4 year, $8.25m deal. After 4 years he will only be 23. This doesn't give the Sox much time to let him mature in the minors.

 

2. If his glove is really naturally blessed and he can impact games with that alone, he will have inherent value at the SS position, probably positive-WARP, despite hitting woes.

 

3. I've never seen a study about fielding ability and age. I know that age can help with training a hitter's eye or building body strength, but I have no clue whether it impacts how well a kid can go get the ball. We know that as players get older the skill can deteriorate (speed, reflexes, flexability). We also know that playing SS is one of the most athletic things a baseball player can do, and other extremely athletic sports see players excelling at the highest levels at 19 or 20 years old. Offensively we shouldn't expect much, but overall we shouldn't overvalue what that means at the SS position.

[Dipre]

What would people think about the Sox looking at Randy Winn as a 4th OF? He's been a starter most of his career and he's a type B, both of which go against them acquiring him for anything reasonable cost wise. However, he can play all 3 OF positions, LF and RF above average. He's had a decent career he's relatively versatile and healthy. Also, remarkably, he's never played in the playoffs before--a potential selling point on a team like Boston.

 

To me, he's actually similar to an older Coco Crisp, which wouldn't hurt on a one or two year deal, say, $10m over two years. He's averaged 20 SB/162 G, which is a respectable number and tells me he still has some spring in his legs. In 2009 he made $9m+, but that's bound to drop after deal's like Abreu's last offseason and Winn's predictable decline. I don't think he's a bad clubhouse guy or anything and when he ultimately disappears there would likely be a rookie ready to go in his place.

 

It's just a thought. He's nothing too special, but a good defensive 4th OF with some athleticism and veteran presence might not hurt.

 

Winn has always had some pop in his bat and played above average defense, the problem with him is he'll probably land a starting gig somewhere.

 

I can imagine Iglesias being the Sox starting SS by 2011.

 

1. They signed him to a 4 year, $8.25m deal. After 4 years he will only be 23. This doesn't give the Sox much time to let him mature in the minors.

 

2. If his glove is really naturally blessed and he can impact games with that alone, he will have inherent value at the SS position, probably positive-WARP, despite hitting woes.

 

3. I've never seen a study about fielding ability and age. I know that age can help with training a hitter's eye or building body strength, but I have no clue whether it impacts how well a kid can go get the ball. We know that as players get older the skill can deteriorate (speed, reflexes, flexability). We also know that playing SS is one of the most athletic things a baseball player can do, and other extremely athletic sports see players excelling at the highest levels at 19 or 20 years old. Offensively we shouldn't expect much, but overall we shouldn't overvalue what that means at the SS position.

 

The Texas Rangers wholeheartedly agree with you.

[TheKilo]

Saying Coco bitched about his playing time is pretty inaccurate. He was a god soldier for this team when he was here. He had one of the best defensive seasons ever in 2007 and was rightly frustrated when the CF job was given to Ellsbury in the spring of '08 on the basis of 100 or so ABs. He felt he deserved to be a startomewhere and KC jumped at the chance to trade for him.

 

I don't want any part of him now though.