Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[a700hitter]

What would people think about the Sox looking at Randy Winn as a 4th OF? He's been a starter most of his career and he's a type B, both of which go against them acquiring him for anything reasonable cost wise. However, he can play all 3 OF positions, LF and RF above average. He's had a decent career he's relatively versatile and healthy. Also, remarkably, he's never played in the playoffs before--a potential selling point on a team like Boston.

 

To me, he's actually similar to an older Coco Crisp, which wouldn't hurt on a one or two year deal, say, $10m over two years. He's averaged 20 SB/162 G, which is a respectable number and tells me he still has some spring in his legs. In 2009 he made $9m+, but that's bound to drop after deal's like Abreu's last offseason and Winn's predictable decline. I don't think he's a bad clubhouse guy or anything and when he ultimately disappears there would likely be a rookie ready to go in his place.

 

It's just a thought. He's nothing too special, but a good defensive 4th OF with some athleticism and veteran presence might not hurt.

Can he still play CF?

[jacksonianmarch]

A type B FA is a completely non-detrimental assignment for the team signing the player. All that occurs is that the Giants would get a supplemental 1st rounder, while the sox lose nothing

[example1]

A type B FA is a completely non-detrimental assignment for the team signing the player. All that occurs is that the Giants would get a supplemental 1st rounder' date=' while the sox lose nothing[/quote']

 

All the more reason to sign him, I suppose. Thanks for the clarification.

 

I doubt it would happen, but he'd be an interesting veteran option. He would probably cost too much, for too many years, but a shot at the playoffs could be meaningful to him. Of course, he could have a shot at the playoffs in SF too.

[Dojji]

Uhh, this guy is 35 years old and hit an extremely impressive .262/.318/.353 last year. With 2 HR's in 538 at bats. He also hasn't turned in average numbers in centerfield since 2005 and has been downright horrible each of the last three years. I want no part of Randy Winn.

[Dipre]

Uhh' date=' this guy is 35 years old and hit an extremely impressive .262/.318/.353 last year. With 2 HR's in 538 at bats. He also hasn't turned in average numbers in centerfield since 2005 and has been downright horrible each of the last three years. I want no part of Randy Winn.[/quote']

 

It's a 4th OF.

[a700hitter]

It's a 4th OF.

Can he still play CF? That is the most important factor.

[Dipre]

Can he still play CF? That is the most important factor.

 

Played 22 games there last year.

[Dojji]

It's a 4th OF.

 

Winn still sucks even for a 4th OF. Gabe Kapler beats that easy in a bad year.

 

Played 22 games there last year.

 

Anyone can play in CF. Doug Mirabelli could physically occupy the position of CF. The question is if he can do it well. And Randy Winn hasn't played centerfield well in 4 years.

[Dipre]

Winn still sucks even for a 4th OF. Gabe Kapler beats that easy in a bad year.

 

Kapler's strictly a platoon player, and Winn struggled mightily at home this year, yet put up a close-to-career average .749 OPS on the road.

 

Care to compare sample sizes?

 

Anyone can play in CF. Doug Mirabelli could physically occupy the position of CF. The question is if he can do it well. And Randy Winn hasn't played centerfield well in 4 years.

 

I love how you pull stuff like this out of your ass.

[Dojji]

Kapler's strictly a platoon player.

 

Dude, our CF and our RF are both lefthanded and we don't know who our LF is. At this point, a platoon player is a pretty danged good fit.

[Dipre]

Dude' date=' our CF and our RF are both lefthanded and we don't know who our LF is. At this point, a platoon player is a pretty danged good fit.[/quote']

 

My good sir.

 

We're talking about a 4th OF.

 

Someone who can play all 3 positions.

 

Our LF situation has nothing to do with our 4th OF situation.

 

And btw, Winn is a Switch hitter. Research please.

[Spudboy]

Gabe Kapler's wife is SMOKIN'!

 

Just sayin'

[bsox0407]

Gabe Kapler's wife is SMOKIN'!

 

Just sayin'

 

holy s*** dude. yeah she is. DAMN!!!!

[Dojji]

My good sir.

 

We're talking about a 4th OF.

 

Someone who can play all 3 positions.

 

Our LF situation has nothing to do with our 4th OF situation.

 

And btw, Winn is a Switch hitter. Research please.

 

Kalper, however, is 2 years younger and actually produced at a career average level. Winn is at an age where decline is expected, and oh look, he declined.

 

There is NO way you can stand there and tell me that you would count on Winn to produce at career average levels next year. Kapler, on the other hand, is a pretty decent bet.

 

And my god, sir, our LF situation has nothing to do with the bench role designed to back it up? Holy hell.

[Dipre]

Kalper, however, is 2 years younger and actually produced at a career average level. Winn is at an age where decline is expected, and oh look, he declined.

 

There is NO way you can stand there and tell me that you would count on Winn to produce at career average levels next year. Kapler, on the other hand, is a pretty decent bet.

 

And my god, sir, our LF situation has nothing to do with the bench role designed to back it up? Holy hell.

 

Oh?

 

Because our 4th OF is going to be our regular LF? News to me.

 

Kapler has never been a starter, EVER.

 

Please judge by sample sizes.

 

Well lookie here:

 

Winn had 597 PA's last year.

 

While Kapler had a record-setting 238 PA's last year, mostly having platoon advantage in a much easier park to hit in.

[example1]

Uhh' date=' this guy is 35 years old and hit an extremely impressive .262/.318/.353 last year. With 2 HR's in 538 at bats. He also hasn't turned in average numbers in centerfield since 2005 and has been downright horrible each of the last three years. I want no part of Randy Winn.[/quote']

 

All of these are fair points.

 

His splits as a RHH weren't very good last year either.

 

I like him as a veteran who has actually started (Kapler is a career backup). I like his ability to stay healthy. I like his speed and athleticism (20 SB/162, vs. 8 for Kapler). I also liked his ability to play 3 OF positions, though I hadn't looked to notice that Kapler also played 3 positions at roughly the same level as Winn did this season.

 

Again, I think Winn is like an older Coco Crisp. Kapler is an older Kapler.

 

Given that I care very little about either of these players, it will be interesting to see which gets paid more and which gets pursued more aggressively as a FA. For some reason Winn has been a career starter and Kapler a career 4th OF.

[Dipre]

All of these are fair points.

 

His splits as a RHH weren't very good last year either.

 

I like him as a veteran who has actually started (Kapler is a career backup). I like his ability to stay healthy. I like his speed and athleticism (20 SB/162, vs. 8 for Kapler). I also liked his ability to play 3 OF positions, though I hadn't looked to notice that Kapler also played 3 positions at roughly the same level as Winn did this season.

 

Again, I think Winn is like an older Coco Crisp. Kapler is an older Kapler.

 

Given that I care very little about either of these players, it will be interesting to see which gets paid more and which gets pursued more aggressively as a FA. For some reason Winn has been a career starter and Kapler a career 4th OF.

 

Yeah but his splits as a RHH were really harmed by a .178 BABIP.

[example1]

Yeah but his splits as a RHH were really harmed by a .269 BABIP.

 

Sure, sure.

 

If we're arguing over s***** 4th OF types I guess I would put my vote in for Winn before Kapler, mostly because he would be a change, a good veteran, a switch hitter, a more proven all-fields fielder, more athletic, and a bit faster. Mostly because he's a change from the norm... Kapler has been done before.

 

I think this team may actually need the right kind of player personality-wise to fit the team. I have no clue whether Winn is that type of guy. I just know he's a change from what they've had. He has also had a better OBP more recently.

 

I would like to see a veteran like Winn get a chance to contribute on a playoff team and I think he might be able to step his game up and be a good role model for the younger OFs who will inevitably be jumping into the picture by the end of 2010.

[Dipre]

Sure, sure.

 

If we're arguing over s***** 4th OF types I guess I would put my vote in for Winn before Kapler, mostly because he would be a change, a good veteran, a switch hitter, a more proven all-fields fielder, more athletic, and a bit faster. Mostly because he's a change from the norm... Kapler has been done before.

 

I think this team may actually need the right kind of player personality-wise to fit the team. I have no clue whether Winn is that type of guy. I just know he's a change from what they've had. He has also had a better OBP more recently.

 

I would like to see a veteran like Winn get a chance to contribute on a playoff team and I think he might be able to step his game up and be a good role model for the younger OFs who will inevitably be jumping into the picture by the end of 2010.

 

Please check the edit, the BABIP was actually .178, and i have no idea where i pulled the .269 from.

[jacksonianmarch]

Who cares about your 4th OF right now. That can get sorted out after you get your 3rd OFer in place. 4th OFers are usually obtained in late January, early February.

[Dipre]

Who cares about your 4th OF right now. That can get sorted out after you get your 3rd OFer in place. 4th OFers are usually obtained in late January' date=' early February.[/quote']

 

So we're not allowed to discuss the Red Sox on a Red Sox board?

 

STFU and GTFO plz.

[jacksonianmarch]

Let me dumb it down for you just a bit. A good 4th OFer is all dependent on what you have for your OFers #1-3. If the sox nab a guy like Crawford for LF, then you are probably going to want a 4th OFer with more power than slap hitting ability. If you get a guy like Bay, then a speed guy might be in order. You need to complement your team appropriately with your bench. If your backup is the same kind of player as the guy he's replacing except not as good, then there is absolutely no advantage to having them in the lineup. Its all well and good to get a 4th OFer type player, but there are TONS of those available at all times of the yr. A good GM complements his team with a bench that offers you something a little different.

[Dipre]

Let me dumb it down for you just a bit. A good 4th OFer is all dependent on what you have for your OFers #1-3. If the sox nab a guy like Crawford for LF' date=' then you are probably going to want a 4th OFer with more power than slap hitting ability. If you get a guy like Bay, then a speed guy might be in order. You need to complement your team appropriately with your bench. If your backup is the same kind of player as the guy he's replacing except not as good, then there is absolutely no advantage to having them in the lineup. Its all well and good to get a 4th OFer type player, but there are TONS of those available at all times of the yr. A good GM complements his team with a bench that offers you something a little different.[/quote']

 

Can you stop pulling stuff out of your ass and let us talk about whatever the hell we want to talk?

 

Thanks.

[example1]

Please check the edit' date=' the BABIP was actually .178, and i have no idea where i pulled the .269 from.[/quote']

 

That's funny. Just randomly making up numbers out of nowhere. .178 is a really low BABIP.

 

My best theory is that you typed the wrong numbers; 1, 7, and 8 are each one digit away from 2, 6, and 9.

 

Who cares about your 4th OF right now. That can get sorted out after you get your 3rd OFer in place. 4th OFers are usually obtained in late January' date=' early February.[/quote']

 

says the guy whose team is still alive.

 

Listen man, if the Sox were still playing I can assure you we wouldn't be discussing this.

 

Right now, however, I simply can't WAIT for the FA period to start. It can't start soon enough IMO.

 

Remember how you felt at this time in 2008? Before your team had Teixeira, Sabathia or Burnett? Yeah, that's where I'm at now. It blows.

[jacksonianmarch]

I remember how it felt. But I wasnt opining about the 4th OFer. I was pining for Tex, AJ, and CC

[Dipre]

That's funny. Just randomly making up numbers out of nowhere. .178 is a really low BABIP.

 

My best theory is that you typed the wrong numbers; 1, 7, and 8 are each one digit away from 2, 6, and 9.

 

Yeah i just found out my mistake.

 

That BABIP was from another year. 07 i think LOL.

[Dipre]

I remember how it felt. But I wasnt opining about the 4th OFer. I was pining for Tex' date=' AJ, and CC[/quote']

 

Still, we can discuss whatever we want.

 

If you don't like it, feel free to dissipate.

[Cocos Disciples]

I remember how it felt. But I wasnt opining about the 4th OFer. I was pining for Tex' date=' AJ, and CC[/quote']

 

And Manny, Cameron, Sheets, Lowe...

 

People have been talking about Lackey, Gonzalez, etc. since the Sox were eliminated, so it's not like the night after Game 3 we were all losing sleep over who the 4th outfielder is.

[Dipre]

People have been talking about Lackey' date=' Gonzalez, etc. since the Sox were eliminated, so it's not like the night after Game 3 we were all losing sleep over who the 4th outfielder is.[/quote']

 

Even if we were, we don't need regulation for our baseball discussion.

 

And even if we did, Jacko sure as hell ain't the one to do it.

[Cocos Disciples]

Even if we were, we don't need regulation for our baseball discussion.

 

For the most part...