Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Dipre]

OK' date=' so let's ask the question again. Which lefties that we brought here clearly had their HR go down? Quite honestly the only guy I can think of is Eric Hinske.[/quote']

 

Which dead-pull hitters have we brought besides Hinske?

[Dojji]

I can think of one other at least.

[Dipre]

I can think of one other at least.

 

Please share.

[Dojji]

You honestly can't think of another dead-pull lefty?

 

Granted, Big Papi has gone to left field more often in recent years, but the vast majority of his Red Sox HR's have gone out to right.

[Dipre]

You honestly can't think of another dead-pull lefty?

 

Granted, Big Papi has gone to left field more often in recent years, but the vast majority of his Red Sox HR's have gone out to right.

 

You answered your own question.

 

Why think of Ortiz if he's not a dead-pull hitter?

 

Not only that, Ortiz has prodigious power, you're really gonna compare him with Adam LaRoche?

[Dojji]

You answered your own question.

 

Why think of Ortiz if he's not a dead-pull hitter?

 

Not only that, Ortiz has prodigious power, you're really gonna compare him with Adam LaRoche?

 

If you don't think Ortiz was and still is predominately a pull hitter, I just don't know what to say.

 

All I'm asking is, find a lefty we've gotten in recent years who even really suffered any loss of power from coming here.

 

I think the park factors are overblown, or at least the FO does a good job calling the guys who aren't going to be hurt as much by them.

 

If we do sign LaRoche it's because Theo thinks that the park factors aren't going to kill his bat. I'd count on him to be right.

[Dipre]

If you don't think Ortiz was and still is predominately a pull hitter, I just don't know what to say.

 

All I'm asking is, find a lefty we've gotten in recent years who even really suffered any loss of power from coming here.

 

I think the park factors are overblown, or at least the FO does a good job calling the guys who aren't going to be hurt as much by them.

 

If we do sign LaRoche it's because Theo thinks that the park factors aren't going to kill his bat. I'd count on him to be right.

 

1) I didn't say he wasn't predominantly a pull hitter, stop putting words in my mouth, and stop the smug attitude.

 

2) Park factors are overblown when they hurt your argument, Jacksonian much?

 

3) How you can compare Adam LaRoche to David Ortiz is beyond me.

 

I'll give you some LaRoche/Ortiz chart in a couple minutes.

 

But seriously.

[Dojji]

 

I'll give you some LaRoche/Ortiz chart in a couple minutes.

 

But seriously.

 

Don't bother. I never compared LaRoche to Ortiz. You asked for an example of a pull-happy lefty. I gave you one. That's it.

[Dipre]

Don't bother. I never compared LaRoche to Ortiz. You asked for an example of a pull-happy lefty. I gave you one. That's it.

 

According to this helpful little tool:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?c_id=bos&playerID=120074&statType=1

 

This year alone: Only 7 of Papi's 18 homers at home were pulled to straight away right field or to right-center field.

 

Last year: 8 of 12 homers at home.

 

Don't know how that constitutes "Dead-pull hitter".

[ORS]

OK' date=' so let's ask the question again. Which lefties that we brought here clearly had their HR go down? Quite honestly the only guy I can think of is Eric Hinske.[/quote']

Why do you need an example of decreased HR production? That limits the data arbitrarily. A HR park factor looks at all HRs.

 

That said, since you won't stop trying to shove the square peg into the round hole, Hinske is an awful example. He started sucking before we ever got him, which is why we got him for nothing off waivers. Drew would probably be the only recent example of a good LH hitter to use as the square peg. He hit 1 HR every 23 AB prior to coming to Boston, he's hit 1 HR every 28 since. That's .81, which is close to the RF park factor.

[Dojji]

Why do you need an example of decreased HR production? That limits the data arbitrarily. A HR park factor looks at all HRs.

 

That said, since you won't stop trying to shove the square peg into the round hole, Hinske is an awful example. He started sucking before we ever got him, which is why we got him for nothing off waivers. Drew would probably be the only recent example of a good LH hitter to use as the square peg. He hit 1 HR every 23 AB prior to coming to Boston, he's hit 1 HR every 28 since. That's .81, which is close to the RF park factor.

 

So for some reason there's very few recent examples of a lefthanded power hitter actually getting hurt by the park factors, however we're still continuing to take them as gospel.

 

I'm sure the numbers come from somewhere. They're not meaningless. But the worry seems to me to be overblown based on the fact that the LHH's we've brought in seem not to really be hurt by it that much.

 

Possibly there's a confounding variable in play -- namely, Theo's found a way to figure out who can hit homers at the Fens and who can't. With that in mind, if Theo signed LaRoche it's because he made exactly that determination.

[Dipre]

So for some reason there's very few recent examples of a lefthanded power hitter actually getting hurt by the park factors, however we're still continuing to take them as gospel.

 

I'm sure the numbers come from somewhere. They're not meaningless. But the worry seems to me to be overblown based on the fact that the LHH's we've brought in seem not to really be hurt by it that much. Possibly there's a confounding variable in play -- namely, Theo's found a way to figure out who can hit homers at the Fens and who can't.

 

And what in heavens' name would suggest to you that Adam LaRoche is the prototypical LH Fenway power hitter?

[Dojji]

And what in heavens' name would suggest to you that Adam LaRoche is the prototypical LH Fenway power hitter?

 

Why does he have to be? How much do we have to play to the park?

 

It seems to me that one of our big problems this year was our inability to hit on the road. Another hitter who plays to the park probably doesn't do us a lot of good.

[Dipre]

Why does he have to be? How much do we have to play to the park?

 

It seems to me that one of our big problems this year was our inability to hit on the road. Another hitter who plays to the park probably doesn't do us a lot of good.

 

Yeah bringing the very definition of "Average" won't help much either.

 

Seriously, Adam LaRoche?

[ORS]

So for some reason there's very few recent examples of a lefthanded power hitter actually getting hurt by the park factors' date=' however we're still continuing to take them as gospel.[/quote']

No, that's not what I said, so stop setting up ridiculous strawmen arguments. You were asking for a LH hitter who experienced decreased HR performance. The recent LH power hitters have been Ortiz, Trot, Drew, .... , crickets. That's about it. Ortiz broke out in Boston, so comparisons to the previous home park isn't useful, Trot broke in and broke down in Boston, same issue. The only way to tell if their Boston production was supressed by the park is to look at how often the Sox and their opponents sent the ball out to right in home vs. road settings.

 

I'm sure the numbers come from somewhere. They're not meaningless. But the worry seems to me to be overblown based on the fact that the LHH's we've brought in seem not to really be hurt by it that much.

There's no worry. My only concern is accuracy. You made something up. I called you out on it. Simple as that. You could have just admitted it, but instead made something else up, the strawman. That square peg isn't going into that round hole.

[MANNYHOF24]

Is it just me or is it really depressing that my ALCS game 5 tickets just got mailed to my house yesterday?

[example1]

People don't' date=' but what about the actual FO of the team?[/quote']

 

I have always assumed that front offices have a better idea than most fans about the likely success of their teams.

 

Certainly a new FO will come in and make an assessment of their team, and Zduriencik has been in Seattle for a year. Their fans and FO both know that they simply don't have enough elite players to beat the AL's best teams, even with Felix Hernandez as a Cy Young contender.

[Dipre]

I have always assumed that front offices have a better idea than most fans about the likely success of their teams.

 

Certainly a new FO will come in and make an assessment of their team, and Zduriencik has been in Seattle for a year. Their fans and FO both know that they simply don't have enough elite players to beat the AL's best teams, even with Felix Hernandez as a Cy Young contender.

 

I really don't buy that they don't think that by signing a couple pieces and catching a couple breaks this couldn't be a contending team this year or the next, again, this is just my opinion, but trading Felix simply doesn't make sense for Seattle.

[MANNYHOF24]

But at least he lets black people use his bathroom, there is a silver lining in this after all.

 

What a f***ing chump.

[Dipre]

But at least he lets black people use his bathroom, there is a silver lining in this after all.

 

What a f***ing chump.

 

Wrong thread.

[bsox0407]

But at least he lets black people use his bathroom, there is a silver lining in this after all.

 

What a f***ing chump.

 

haha good one lol. but yeah wrong thread.:lol:

[BSN07]

Newsday's Ken Davidoff hears from a source "in the loop" that when Matt Holliday hits free agency, the outfielder's top choices are the Yankees and the Mets.

[example1]

 

Awesome... I think we've seen this before, haven't we?

 

Honestly, who wouldn't want to go to the Yankees? They pay like 50% more than anyone else. I would prefer to play there too, honestly.

[Dojji]

Hope Bay's actually willing to re-sign with us. If Holliday actually prefers the Yankees we're in some trouble. We can't afford to lose offense this offseason and even LF isn't that easy to find a true power bat anymore.

[example1]

Hope Bay's actually willing to re-sign with us. If Holliday actually prefers the Yankees we're in some trouble. We can't afford to lose offense this offseason and even LF isn't that easy to find a true power bat anymore.

 

 

Right now would be the best time to go to the Yankees too. They will certainly be willing to pay roughly what everyone else pays (probably more), and there is virtually ZERO pressure for any 2010 signee. IF the team fails the heat will come to A-Rod, Teix, CC, Jeter, etc., before it finds someone so "lowly" as Matt Holliday.

 

More money, less pressure = win, win.

 

EDIT: If Holliday is set on going to the Yankees and Bay is questionable then the Sox MUST get that impact bat (and probably all impact players they will need in the future) through trade. Adrian Gonzalez or Hanley or Prince Fielder. No need to wait. Make it happen by Thanksgiving.

[Dojji]

If we can't get Bay or Holliday, Carlos Lee is going to start looking mighty tempting. So is Carlos Beltran, who might benefit healthwise from a move to the corners.

[MANNYHOF24]

Wrong thread.

 

Haha, I was wondering where the f*** my comment went.

[bsox0407]

Right now would be the best time to go to the Yankees too. They will certainly be willing to pay roughly what everyone else pays (probably more), and there is virtually ZERO pressure for any 2010 signee. IF the team fails the heat will come to A-Rod, Teix, CC, Jeter, etc., before it finds someone so "lowly" as Matt Holliday.

 

More money, less pressure = win, win.

 

EDIT: If Holliday is set on going to the Yankees and Bay is questionable then the Sox MUST get that impact bat (and probably all impact players they will need in the future) through trade. Adrian Gonzalez or Hanley or Prince Fielder. No need to wait. Make it happen by Thanksgiving.

 

if he goes to the yankees they will achieve in buying pretty much every position.

[example1]

If we can't get Bay or Holliday' date=' Carlos Lee is going to start looking mighty tempting. So is Carlos Beltran, who might benefit healthwise from a move to the corners.[/quote']

 

Only if this FO feels that there is any benefit to be had by paying players premium salaries.

 

Honestly, I'm wondering if they will ever pay a player premium $$ again. I'm not convinced that the $$ earned from winning a WS or making a deep run in the playoffs is worth the price of a marquee player who isn't in his prime. Carlose Lee and Carlos Beltran (the Carlii) are both beyond their peak years and still expensive.

 

I would love this team to add Beltran, but I can't help but wonder whether this FO doesn't even start discussions about these types of players anymore. It might just be seen as a completely taboo subject as they are minimally cost effective at this point.

 

It would be a shame if this team had sworn off major FA's or established veterans almost entirely.

 

I could certainly be convinced that getting Beltran for CF and moving Ellsbury to LF would be a good move.

[bsox0407]

carl crawford is going to be a free agent him in left.

 

fast can hit pretty well, good arm, and good defense. can definitely give us a better leadoff hitter.