Manny Ramirez Trade Deadline Thread (renamed)

[dreilly]

I'm always trying to get laid. Figuring that you guys got screwed today' date=' I figured it was fitting to start that here. :thumbsup:[/quote']

 

 

Bet you did.

 

No I didn't lose any money either.

[Paradisecity]

Ummm....

 

He goes from facing the pitching staffs of New York, with Joba, Pettitte, and soon Wang, the Devil Rays with Shields and Kazmir, and Blue Jays of Halliday and Burnett. In return, he faces who outside of Peavy, Haren, and Webb? Let's not forget that the bullpens of NY, Tampa, and the Blue Jays?

 

Like I said....wanna bet?

 

 

He also goes from a short porch in left to Dodger stadium. He also goes from a lineup with protection to one who is 28th in total home runs? Can you say walks?

[BSN07]

Ummm....

 

He goes from facing the pitching staffs of New York, with Joba, Pettitte, and soon Wang, the Devil Rays with Shields and Kazmir, and Blue Jays of Halliday and Burnett. In return, he faces who outside of Peavy, Haren, and Webb? Let's not forget that the bullpens of NY, Tampa, and the Blue Jays?

 

Like I said....wanna bet?

 

 

What was the bet?

 

.... He sat against Joba so that does no good, he crushed Yanks pitching. Again, the pitching might not be as talented or as deep, but its all going to be new, Manny has 2 months to learn a whole new league of pitchers for the most part. I'm not saying he will be awful, but I don't see him doing much more then what hes doing now.

[BoSox34]

Jason Bay is a decent hitter. He doesn't steal bases anymore. He's not a great fielder and has never been known for having a good arm. Jason Bay has never played in a big market or in the playoffs. Jason Bay is not an entertaining player, and in fact is rather boring.

[Bostonownsyou]

Because he didn't have a choice. What was he supposed to do? Throw a tantrum and demand a trade?

 

Yup he was fine with being in last place. Now he's comming to Boston so guys like Halliday, AJ, Pettite, Joba, Mussina Shields and Kazmir alone can f*** his ass. I almost feel bad for this dumb Canadien.

[Gom]

Ok....I am so loving today, nothing like a Red Sox fans anguish to make a Yankee fan happy....but putting that aside....

 

This is the best you guys could have done. The FO botched this with Manny, but that's water under the bridge. Manny simply wasn't going to play in Boston anymore. You would have had more phantom ailments, at bats in question, lackluster play, etc.

 

Bay's numbers are close. He's no Manny, but you weren't going to get equal value. Hansen and Moss are no loss, and in Hansen's case it may just be addition by subtraction. Plus, you got a LF for next year, and can use the 13 million to play for CC or Sheets or Tex, etc in the offseason.

 

You FO made the best of a bad situation. However, they are as much to fault as anyone. They should have realized that Manny on the field was your best option of winning.

[CalvnHobs6]

Me too. They were flat/terrible lately. Coincidence' date=' maybe, but Manny's bitching had reached new levels, and his half-assing wasn't cute anymore. Shades of Nomar (attitude-wise) - Nomar was a pissing and moaning malcontent before he got dealt too. This deal makes them better in the long run. Manny was gone after this year anyway. Bay will still be around, on the upside of his career, and gives the Sox 30 HR 100 RBI power. They sign him to an extention midway through next season, cool, if not, they still get the draft picks. The money they save on Manny lets them go after some help in the off season. Think big, people, look to the future. Moss and Hansen were not the answer. Nice pieces, yes, but not irreplacable. This deal keeps this season alive AND makes them better headed into '09 too.[/quote']

 

I'll always love Manny for the two world series, the numbers he's put up, and most of the less harmful Manny being Manny antics. But at this point, he needed to go, and Jason Bay is a decent haul. I'm choosing to ignore Moss (never really saw his place on the team) and Hansen (I cannot stand to watch him pitch anymore), though I do wish them both success on the Pirates. I've always liked Jason Bay, and looking at his non-2007 numbers, we have a lot to be excited about. I really think this will energize the team as well.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Imagine next year at this time: Manny is gone, Moss is a .750 OPS OF, and Hansen is MAYBE a competent MR. If a .900 OPS OF like Bay was available for Moss and Hansen, wouldn't you make that deal? And that's only for a two month rental, we get Bay for another entire year.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Nevermind the two World Series' he's brought us... the farm system is his lone good contribution' date=' eh?[/quote']

 

The guy has made sketchy free agent signings at best (for the most part), and he doesn't make good trades. The last two major deals he's made have been absolutely atrocious. Plus, the 2004 'chip was mostly Duquette's guys anyways. All Theo did that year was trade Nomar for Orlando Cabrera, who everyone seems to think was the sole reason the Sox won it that year. So yeah I'd say the farm system is the only above average contribution he's made to the orginization. Fire away, I'm sticking by that.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Ok....I am so loving today, nothing like a Red Sox fans anguish to make a Yankee fan happy....but putting that aside....

 

This is the best you guys could have done. The FO botched this with Manny, but that's water under the bridge. Manny simply wasn't going to play in Boston anymore. You would have had more phantom ailments, at bats in question, lackluster play, etc.

 

Bay's numbers are close. He's no Manny, but you weren't going to get equal value. Hansen and Moss are no loss, and in Hansen's case it may just be addition by subtraction. Plus, you got a LF for next year, and can use the 13 million to play for CC or Sheets or Tex, etc in the offseason.

 

You FO made the best of a bad situation. However, they are as much to fault as anyone. They should have realized that Manny on the field was your best option of winning.

 

Having Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen around couldn't hurt the club too much either in the long run.

[dreilly]

Ok....I am so loving today, nothing like a Red Sox fans anguish to make a Yankee fan happy....but putting that aside....

 

This is the best you guys could have done. The FO botched this with Manny, but that's water under the bridge. Manny simply wasn't going to play in Boston anymore. You would have had more phantom ailments, at bats in question, lackluster play, etc.

 

Bay's numbers are close. He's no Manny, but you weren't going to get equal value. Hansen and Moss are no loss, and in Hansen's case it may just be addition by subtraction. Plus, you got a LF for next year, and can use the 13 million to play for CC or Sheets or Tex, etc in the offseason.

 

You FO made the best of a bad situation. However, they are as much to fault as anyone. They should have realized that Manny on the field was your best option of winning.

 

Thanks for being the voice of reason here. Seems you have much to gain by being nice.

 

As much as I would love to disagree with what you said, I don't think I can. I believe you hit the nail on the head.

[stcjones]

This deal is interesting. The sox dealt Manny' date=' Hansen, Moss, and 7 mil for a player they hope can perform close to what Manny was doing[/quote']

 

 

Close to Manny? There is only ONE Manny........yes he was a pain in the a##, but the sox should have shrugged this off better.....or maybe Tito could have grown a set and read him the riot act.......They gave away a proven powerhouse and a clutch player in the playoffs (maybe one of the best clutch hitters of all time) for a decent offensive player.......nothing exceptional or "legendary" like Manny is just decent (.280 lifetime?)

 

This one won't sink in for Tito/Theo etc until A) the sox don't make the playoffs.....or Bay goes 2-20 in the playoffs........This is a kid who has never sniffed the playoffs....Huge question mark.......Manny......Best clutch hitter of all time........doesn't make alot of sense......Also, why the #($@ is Theo giving away one of our best pitching prospects.....a good young player in Moss and two others PLUS 7 MILLION..........for Bay.......Damn this kid better beat the sh## out of the ball in Boston......Gawd bless him if he starts off weak.......Way to go Theo.....:thumbdown

[Fried Neckbones]

The guy has made sketchy free agent signings at best (for the most part)' date=' and he doesn't make good trades. The last two major deals he's made have been absolutely atrocious. Plus, the 2004 'chip was mostly Duquette's guys anyways. All Theo did that year was trade Nomar for Orlando Cabrera, who everyone seems to think was the sole reason the Sox won it that year. So yeah I'd say the farm system is the only above average contribution he's made to the orginization. Fire away, I'm sticking by that.[/quote']

 

The '04 WS was also Millar, Mueller, Foulke, Schill, and a guy by the name of Ortiz - Theo guys.

[BSN07]

Ok....I am so loving today, nothing like a Red Sox fans anguish to make a Yankee fan happy....but putting that aside....

 

This is the best you guys could have done. The FO botched this with Manny, but that's water under the bridge. Manny simply wasn't going to play in Boston anymore. You would have had more phantom ailments, at bats in question, lackluster play, etc.

 

Bay's numbers are close. He's no Manny, but you weren't going to get equal value. Hansen and Moss are no loss, and in Hansen's case it may just be addition by subtraction. Plus, you got a LF for next year, and can use the 13 million to play for CC or Sheets or Tex, etc in the offseason.

 

You FO made the best of a bad situation. However, they are as much to fault as anyone. They should have realized that Manny on the field was your best option of winning.

 

 

 

 

Holy sweet flying f_ck... A Yankee fan, and Gom to boot, actually sees this for what it is.... Gom I can't believe of all people you seem to see it very clearly.

[Paradisecity]

He'll be playing with another Red Sox who wanted more money, pouted, and eventually got traded. Lets see if his future can turn out a little brighter than Nomar's....

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

The '04 WS was also Millar' date=' Mueller, Foulke, Schill, and a guy by the name of Ortiz - Theo guys.[/quote']

 

Cross out Millar and Mueller, first off. They weren't the reasons we won (and nobody go to the ALCS game 4 game-tying hit, Mueller was just the lucky winner there). Schill and Ortiz I grant. Foulke was a good addition for that year but I'm reluctant to consider him a good signing overall because he flat-out disappeared after that.

[Gom]

Holy sweet flying f_ck... A Yankee fan' date=' and Gom to boot, actually sees this for what it is.... Gom I can't believe of all people you seem to see it very clearly.[/quote']

I always see it for what it is. I'm about the most objective person here. I don't wear pinstriped colored shades. I call it like it is. Certain fools here get pissed when I rip their team, but I do the same to my own.

 

Thanks for the compliment, by the way.

 

Seriously guys, this is the best you could do. Blame everyone if you want. However, Theo did as good as he could have done. This is probably the best deal he ever made, under the circumstances.

 

However, they could have just picked up his option and made him happy at the beginning of the season, or trade him before his value started to go down with this debacle.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I always see it for what it is. I'm about the most objective person here. I don't wear pinstriped colored shades. I call it like it is. Certain fools here get pissed when I rip their team, but I do the same to my own.

 

Thanks for the compliment, by the way.

 

Seriously guys, this is the best you could do. Blame everyone if you want. However, Theo did as good as he could have done. This is probably the worst deal he ever made, under the circumstances.

 

However, they could have just picked up his option and made him happy at the beginning of the season, or trade him before his value started to go down with this debacle.

 

Fixed.

 

 

 

The solution would have been simple: hang on to Manny, don't pick up the option at season's end, accept the two draft picks. And as a bonus, we still have Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen.

[Gom]

You really would rather have Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen instead of Jason Bay?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You really would rather have Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen instead of Jason Bay?

 

Well in a world where idiots like Theo don't exist, we could have had all three. But in any case, yes. I think Brandon Moss has a really really bright future and its not too late for Hansen to get his stuff together.

[msubulldogs21]

Cross out Millar and Mueller' date=' first off. They weren't the reasons we won (and nobody go to the ALCS game 4 game-tying hit, Mueller was just the lucky winner there).[/quote']

 

Please answer me this. How can you discount the guy who won the AL BATTING TITLE in 2003????? Mueller was no fluke. He was a good, solid hitter.

[stcjones]

Fixed.

 

 

 

The solution would have been simple: hang on to Manny, don't pick up the option at season's end, accept the two draft picks. And as a bonus, we still have Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen.

Do you have your resume put together? You should be the new GM man.....this is EXACTLY what they should have done!!! Hansen needed more work....I will give you that.....He is not starting pitcher material right now.....BUT.....he is young and has incredible talent......I also liked Moss alot.....I just can't figure out how we come out of this with Jason Bay.....and give away 7 Mill and 2 of the best young prospects out there....and Torre gets Manny.......what a fuggin gift!!! It is almost like Theo WANTED to fuKK this up!!

[msubulldogs21]

Hansen needed more work....I will give you that.....He is not starting pitcher material right now

 

Who ever said anything about him being a starting pitcher?

[stcjones]

Who ever said anything about him being a starting pitcher?

Well I think that obviously that is what he has the POTENTIAL to be someday.....he is still a young guy and raw........He sucked as a relief P for us this year.......but I would be shocked if this doesn't come back to bite us when he gets some more seasoning and becomes a decent starter.........thx

[Cocos Disciples]

He was drafted as a reliever, and has been one throughout pro ball.

[ORS]

Here is what is going to happen.

 

Hansen will go to Pittsburgh and be absolutely filthy. He and Ross Ohlendorf along with Matt Capps will make the Buccos pen absolutely filthy. The Yankees and the Sox will lament giving them talented players, even though everyone knows full well they werent making it in the ALE.

 

Brandon Moss will go to PIT and be entrenched as their starting LFer. In their bandbox stadium and in the NLC he will see some success, likely OPSing around .800 and will be another David Murphy type player. Solid, not spectacular, who knows what he's doing in the box, but isnt a key cog in the machine.

 

Manny will go to LA and be absolutely lights out this stretch run. He'll get the Dodgers into the playoffs and be hailed as LA's savior. Coming off that performance, he'll get a huge deal in the offseason and go back to being the lovable loafer you guys cheered on for 8 seasons.

 

Bay will come to the sox and initially struggle and with Manny being on a tear in LA and the prospects looking nice, sox fans will be angry. But come September, he'll start to find his groove and find his way around AL pitchers. By midseason 2009, he'll start to hit like the Jason Bay of old and will likely finish the 09 campaign with a near .900OPS. During the season, the sox will sign him to a 5 yr extension for around 16 mil a yr to be the sox starting LFer for awhile.

For those of you new here and not familiar with the internet Kreskin known as Jacko, I'll provide a free translation:

 

Hansen will be out of baseball by the end '09. Dorf on Baseball is selling shoes in Birmingham next July.

 

Brandon Moss will play RF for the Pirates, and will continue his late development and blossom into a perrenial all-star in Pittsburg, only to be traded to the Yankees in a deadline deal for minor leaguer Shelley Duncan, who will be 34 and hitting .214/.325/.440 with 29 HRs and 4 IF singles.

 

Manny Ramirez will continue to be a fruit loop both on and off the field. He'll help the Dodgers get past the Diamondback in that awful division, but the Dodgers lose their LDS in 4. Boras' silver tongue promises of $100M contracts never appear, and the attitude Manny demonstrated this month limits the years on the offers. He signs somewhere for 2-3 years at about $11-13M per season, and goes on the record saying he got tricked by Boras.

 

Jason Bay will come to Boston and pretty much be the player he has been as a professional to date.

 

Have fun, kids.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

For those of you new here and not familiar with the internet Kreskin known as Jacko, I'll provide a free translation:

 

Hansen will be out of baseball by the end '09. Dorf on Baseball is selling shoes in Birmingham next July.

 

Brandon Moss will play RF for the Pirates, and will continue his late development and blossom into a perrenial all-star in Pittsburg, only to be traded to the Yankees in a deadline deal for minor leaguer Shelley Duncan, who will be 34 and hitting .214/.325/.440 with 29 HRs and 4 IF singles.

 

Manny Ramirez will continue to be a fruit loop both on and off the field. He'll help the Dodgers get past the Diamondback in that awful division, but the Dodgers lose their LDS in 4. Boras' silver tongue promises of $100M contracts never appear, and the attitude Manny demonstrated this month limits the years on the offers. He signs somewhere for 2-3 years at about $11-13M per season, and goes on the record saying he got tricked by Boras.

 

Jason Bay will come to Boston and pretty much be the player he has been as a professional to date.

 

Have fun, kids.

 

OK mr. swami

[ORS]

OK mr. swami

You are new here, so you don't get that this is an inside joke. However, given the amount of drool you've put on display here, you probably still wouldn't had you been around awhile.

 

You said you are reluctant to give Theo credit for the Foulke signing? The reason, he wasn't particularly good in '05.

 

Do you have any clue what he did for this team down the stretch in '04?

[msubulldogs21]

You said you are reluctant to give Theo credit for the Foulke signing? The reason, he wasn't particularly good in '05.

 

Do you have any clue what he did for this team down the stretch in '04?

 

Obviously he doesn't, as evidenced by the fact that he stated Millar and Mueller weren't that important either. Yes, the man who won the 2003 AL batting title.

[User Name]

They said on ESPN before that Bay has a .216 average with RISP.

 

Wonderful trade.