Manny Ramirez Trade Deadline Thread (renamed)

[zackredsox]

Manny just jacked another one out with the Dodgers. Hes a triple away from the cycle.

[ORS]

Manny should have a good year feeding on weak NL West pitching. Bay should have a good year too and is probably a better fit in Red Sox than Manny overall. We probably will not have to wonder if Bay feels like playing tonight or will he get into another distracting fight with somebody.

 

I still think Theo totally got screwed with the trade as LA knew Boston had no options. If we give up the same players and Boston gets a good reliever ( like Mahay for Moss rumor) - I would have liked this trade lot better.

Given that Manny was holding this team hostage and all the other GMs knew it, I'm skeptical it gets done for less, and Bay was a shortlist player of suitable replacements, IMO. He won't replace Manny's bat, but there's more to the game. He's already shown he's much better in the field and on the bases. By LWts, it's about a wash, add defense, I feel the Sox became a better overall team.

 

One point was made by Rician Blast, and I feel it's an important one. Whatever Manny does in LA should not be construed as production lost by the Red Sox. He was not only a distraction here, but he was distracted too. I realize that FA is impending for him and he would have tried to go out and do his best, but still, in the back of his mind, he would know he wasn't where he wanted to be, wasn't where he felt "respected" (right, wrong, or indifferent), and as everyone knows, the most productive Manny is a happy Manny.

 

I wouldn't be so quick to malign the NL West pitching. I'd pit the elite pitchers he will face against the elite from the AL East he'd face. Manny will do what Manny will do because he's a once in a generation hitter, and he's finally, for the time being, happy.

[Gom]

I gotta back ORS here. Theo did an amazing job getting ANYTHING for Manny. Ramirez had put your FO in a terrible spot. The fact that he got Bay is a miracle in and of itself. I am not kidding when I say if he didn't find a taker, he probably would have been resorted to put him on waivers. He was destroying the morale of your team, and no way you go anywhere this season with him. Consider yourselves lucky.

[Jayhawk Bill]

I gotta back ORS here. Theo did an amazing job getting ANYTHING for Manny. Ramirez had put your FO in a terrible spot. The fact that he got Bay is a miracle in and of itself. I am not kidding when I say if he didn't find a taker' date=' he probably would have been resorted to put him on waivers. He was destroying the morale of your team, and no way you go anywhere this season with him. Consider yourselves lucky.[/quote']

 

But it was a huge salary dump, Gom...you posted elsewhere that getting good deals at the deadline was all about salary dumping, and Boston picked up about $7 million of Manny's salary, almost $10 million of Bay's salary, and gave up two MLB-ready prospects including a past first-round draft pick...if your logic is consistent, why should Boston consider itself lucky? :dunno:

[schillingouttheks]

Ignoring the fact that I do believe Jason Bay gives the Red Sox more than what an unhappy Manny would give them for the rest of this season, people tend to overlook that the Sox freed up around $12-13 million in spending money for this off-season. That in and of itself makes the deal worth it because we still have Bay locked up through 2009 - he is obviously more than capable of contributing to this team's success. We have LF taken care of for next year while gaining quite a bit of spending money. Sounds good to me.

[Thumper]

Ignoring the fact that I do believe Jason Bay gives the Red Sox more than what an unhappy Manny would give them for the rest of this season' date=' people tend to overlook that the Sox freed up around [b']$12-13 million[/b] in spending money for this off-season. That in and of itself makes the deal worth it because we still have Bay locked up through 2009 - he is obviously more than capable of contributing to this team's success. We have LF taken care of for next year while gaining quite a bit of spending money. Sounds good to me.

 

Those were my thoughts on this deal.

 

I am sad to see Manny go though. But it was just time. I think Bay will fit right in with the clubhouse and make well for us. The fact he's good and came cheap makes it all the more better.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Ignoring the fact that I do believe Jason Bay gives the Red Sox more than what an unhappy Manny would give them for the rest of this season' date=' people tend to overlook that the Sox freed up around [b']$12-13 million[/b] in spending money for this off-season. That in and of itself makes the deal worth it because we still have Bay locked up through 2009 - he is obviously more than capable of contributing to this team's success. We have LF taken care of for next year while gaining quite a bit of spending money. Sounds good to me.

 

If we're looking at money, keeping Manny and releasing him in November would've freed another $7.5 million.

 

But don't get me wrong--I'll happily defend the trade. It's just that Gom is posting here that Boston made its best deal despite accepting around $17 million in salary liability, even though it probably lost talent, and that he posted a few hours ago that dumping salary could reasonably guarantee winning trades.

 

With this alone, you would presume the Yankees would HAVE to get at least a few wins for a minimum of $21 million, don't you think?

 

I don't for a moment expect Jason Bay to earn more wins than Manny, Hansen and Moss combined, either this autumn or, particularly, when Bay's one remaining year is contrasted against six remaining years each for Hansen and Moss. I don't see it as a reasonable expectation in a deadline trade. Gom is on record as believing it, though; I'm interested in his response.

[schillingouttheks]

If we're looking at money, keeping Manny and releasing him in November would've freed another $7.5 million.

 

But don't get me wrong--I'll happily defend the trade. It's just that Gom is posting here that Boston made its best deal despite accepting around $17 million in salary liability, even though it probably lost talent, and that he posted a few hours ago that dumping salary could reasonably guarantee winning trades.

 

I'm with you on defending the trade. I understand that releasing Manny at the end of the season would have freed up more money, but I believe you have to couple the amount that is freed up with the fact that we have a pretty good left fielder signed through next season at a reasonable price. Besides, I do believe that Bay will give us at least the same production that Manny would have for the rest of the year, if not more. On the defensive side, we upgraded tremendously. Offensively, an unhappy Manny vs. Jason Bay is at least, IMO, a wash. If the players were really so worried about Manny quitting on the team, then I buy into their concern.

 

Not only did the Sox make the best out of what was a very bad and tough situation, but I feel like they pulled off a trade that was more beneficial to them than most people realize.

[Gom]

If we're looking at money, keeping Manny and releasing him in November would've freed another $7.5 million.

 

But don't get me wrong--I'll happily defend the trade. It's just that Gom is posting here that Boston made its best deal despite accepting around $17 million in salary liability, even though it probably lost talent, and that he posted a few hours ago that dumping salary could reasonably guarantee winning trades.

Let's keep that s*** in the other thread, but the Sox thinking was this: Manny was done. If he stayed, he would have tanked, and so would the Sox's season. The Sox's viewpoint was that in the offeseason, it would have cost them more than Moss and Hansen to get Bay. So they pulled off the best deal they could. I mean, what could the Sox have done if Manny just decided to sit out the rest of the season? Check out this article from Gammons.

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3513892&name=gammons_peter

 

I mean, Manny forgot which knee hurt. Only when threatened with disciplinary action, did he play. If you were to make the playoffs this year, you had to get rid of him.

I don't for a moment expect Jason Bay to earn more wins than Manny, Hansen and Moss combined, either this autumn or, particularly, when Bay's one remaining year is contrasted against six remaining years each for Hansen and Moss. I don't see it as a reasonable expectation in a deadline trade. Gom is on record as believing it, though; I'm interested in his response.

So the question is this: Would you have been able to get Bay for Hansen, Moss, and $5 million [taking away two million from this year] during the off-season? I don't think so. So besides the high probability of not making the playoffs, you have a smaller chance of getting the caliber of player that Bay is for Moss and Hansen and $5 million in the offseason than you did at the deadline. It was a no-brainer for Theo, but a terrible position to be in.

 

Or...we could just say the Yankees cheated somehow. Whatever works for you.

[riverside sluggers]

It is very rare for a team to be able to acquire a 29 year old right handed slugger, capable of 30 HR/100 RBI seasons. Plus him being under cheap control over the next 2 seasons. This was a coup for Theo in a bad situation. JayHawk dont you think if Bay ends the year on a strong note (perhaps October), and it rolls over into 2009... the Sox would try and extend his contract?

[BSN07]

JHB is right, finacially this is such a bad move. But for the this years TEAM and a baseball point of view, this needed to be done. Besides if Manny sat the rest of the season as hewas said to be threatning, the Sox still have to pay his salary and they have no real replacement in LF.

[Dojji]

If we're looking at money' date=' keeping Manny and releasing him in November would've freed another $7.5 million.[/quote']

 

Just to be devil's advocate, releasing him in november also saves the 7 million we're paying the Dodgers.

 

 

You would be hard pressed to find a player for even 14 million who will give us what Bay is likely to provide for us down the stretch and next year.

 

But don't get me wrong--I'll happily defend the trade. It's just that Gom is posting here that Boston made its best deal despite accepting around $17 million in salary liability, even though it probably lost talent, and that he posted a few hours ago that dumping salary could reasonably guarantee winning trades.

 

It really, to me, depends on two things. The first is, obviously, Bay's performance in Boston down the stretch and for 2009. If it's good, then fine -- even if we overpaid, a good quality LF in 2009 was something we're going to wind up overpaying for one way or the other.

 

The other is all about Craig Hansen. He's the part of the deal that either puts Boston into "overpay" territory or is simply a liability removed, and that depends on HIS play. Trading Manny and Moss for a player who's actually going to be here next year is clearly defensible.

 

For the record, Hansen allowed a run in his first Pirates appearance, so he's continuing for Pittsburgh as he began for Boston.

 

I don't for a moment expect Jason Bay to earn more wins than Manny, Hansen and Moss combined, either this autumn or, particularly, when Bay's one remaining year is contrasted against six remaining years each for Hansen and Moss.

 

Once again -- I see Hansen as a talented flop in Boston -- he might even contribute negative wins. Also, even if we don't get Bay this team would have gone after a high-priced LF in the offseason anyway, be it Bay or Holliday or Kemp or simply renewing Manny. I don't see it really being a majority odds that Moss gets a starting job without following the Youkilis Trail for a couple years even if he turns out to thrive in a bench role. So on the whole, I disagree with you. I think Moss was seen as a 4th OF and trading chip, I think Hansen needed a change of scenery, and I think Manny was gone -- all things point to the players we got rid of being far more valuable to the other teams than they were to us.

[BoSox21]

I think it was very clear to every GM in baseball that the Sox had no choice but to get rid of Manny, thus making it very difficult for Theo to negotiate a fair deal. All things considered, Theo and the Sox came out well

[Dojji]

I think it was very clear to every GM in baseball that the Sox had no choice but to get rid of Manny' date=' thus making it very difficult for Theo to negotiate a fair deal. All things considered, Theo and the Sox came out well[/quote']

 

Actually when you consider Manny's age and the size of his contract he got a very fair deal. LaRoche and Morris are both fairly interesting prospects.

[schillingouttheks]

Actually when you consider Manny's age and the size of his contract he got a very fair deal. LaRoche and Morris are both fairly interesting prospects.

 

Pittsburgh got them.

[Dojji]

Pittsburgh got them.

 

Yes but only because we turned them around. THe price of Manny was LaRoche and Morris, even if they're not still in-system. That's not a bad haul.

 

I suspect, BTW, that we overpaid slightly for Bay, but since we were in the business of creating a hole in left field, overpaying to fill it is probably something that had to happen.

[schillingouttheks]

Yes but only because we turned them around. THe price of Manny was LaRoche and Morris, even if they're not still in-system. That's not a bad haul.

 

I suspect, BTW, that we overpaid slightly for Bay, but since we were in the business of creating a hole in left field, overpaying to fill it is probably something that had to happen.

 

Ohhhh okay I thought you mistakenly thought they were in our system. If we brought all that back I have a feeling no one would be complaining.

 

Agree 100%. Instead of worrying about overpaying during the off-season, we got a very good left fielder who is signed through 2009. I think while in Boston, Hansen and Moss are a bit overvalued. Don't get me wrong, they're talented in their own right, but Moss had nowhere to play everyday and Hansen, like someone said, would turn out to be a "talented bust". $7M for Bay in '09 isn't bad at all and we get that $12.5M to spend this off-season elsewhere.

 

I don't think one can evaluate the trade solely form a financial standpoint - when all things considered together, the Red Sox did pretty damn well for themselves. I do feel like maybe they could have netted Grabow in addition to Bay, but I'm really not complaining about anything.

[Dojji]

A lot of that 12.5M, possibly all of it, is going to go to settling the arbitration contracts for Youkilis, Papelbon and Delcarmen (is Pedroia a Super 2?)

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.boston/com/sports/baseball

 

Haha some things never change ; ) There is also a "dreadlock deadlock", as Torre has been asking Manny since August 1 to shorten up those dreads of his. It might happen this week but funny to see a quote by Torre, "Im not negotiating". Though it might happen this week at a place called Fantastic sams

 

You may have seen the Manny moment described above if you were watching the Dodgers-Phillies game on ESPN2. From the AP story:

 

The ninth inning was about to start and left field was empty. Manny Ramirez was missing.

Here we go again.

 

Let's see, there's no Green Monster for him to hide in at Dodger Stadium -- so where in the world was Manny now?

 

In the dugout, several Dodgers peered down the tunnel toward their clubhouse as Monday night's game against Philadelphia was held up. They looked as though they didn't know whether to laugh, scream or simply shake their heads.

 

Then, finally, the enigmatic slugger reappeared and jogged swiftly out to his position, dreadlocks dangling and a wry half-smile on his face.

 

"I just went to the bathroom," Ramirez said with a chuckle after Los Angeles' 8-6 victory. "All the guys said, 'Hey, we play nine in here.'"

 

This time, there was a plausible explanation -- sort of -- for Ramirez's brief but conspicuous absence: He thought he had been pulled from the game.

[BSN07]

Alot of that money will go to Beckett as well. I don't see him playing the season with 1 yr left on his deal. I see the Sox extending him this winter. This is one of the reasons I think they haven't traded any young pitching. They know Beckett is going to cost big $. Beckett will be signed long term, they will have Dice-K at a reasonable price, Wake is an unknown, but Lester,Masterson,Buchholz and Bowden will all be very cheap for the forseable future. Locking in Beckett is key, they should use that money to do so and it may set their rotation for a long time.

[Mr Crunchy]

we got becks inked for next year at 10M?

reup him now with a 4/70 deal and a 10M signing bonus making him what he should be

the highest paid right hander in the al.(halliday is great as well but hasnt won s***)

no issues with blisters,a non issue with his trip to the dl last year and the playoff success every team dreams about from their ace.

show him now because if he goes into 09 with no deal then we get into a s*** fight with everyone looking for him and that price will be much more than the 20M per i feel.

he hasnt hit 30 yet,the best is yet to come

[jacksonianmarch]

Beckett isnt stupid. His FA time couldnt be any better. Think about it. He'll be 29 when he hits FA. He is one of the elite pitchers in the game who just so happens to dominate in the postseason. If he signs now, he'll get lowballed. See, he'll get the right length to take him into his older yrs if he signs in a yr. He'd get a Johan type deal.

[BoSox21]

I strongly feel Beckett will go to FA as he has the chance to become the highest-paid pitcher of all time. At the very least, he'll wait and see what Sabathia gets but in the end, the Sox won't let him go anywhere

[a700hitter]

Torre is just making an ass of himself with this. Tell the guy you expect him to play hard. Don't draw a line in the sand over hair. It looks like Yankee Joe is backing down. Old fool.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/08/manny_and_joes.html

[BoSox21]

I cant remember exactly where I heard this today but apparently Manny did get a haircut...he cut an inch off. LOL

 

edit: here it is...

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/BDD_MR_haircut_8.15.08.jpg

 

he also said, if he comes back next year, it will be shorter

[soxfan17881]

I have a really pissy attitude where manny is concerned. I woke up this morning to Sports Center showing his stealing a base! He was in position to do so only because he legged out a close play at first. I see him giggling like a school girl with the press (Hell, he didn't even smile in front of reporters after hitting the game winner in the ALDS last fall!) and talking about how he would steal a base. Ad to that the BA and RBIs since getting to LA...?

 

No one has any illusions about him intentionally sucking in Boston to get traded, but evident depth of his lie makes me want to puke.

 

What an ass-pipe!

[rician blast]

17881,

 

I think you are absolutely entitled to feel that way. For any player to occasionally pull s*** like he did with the Sox is enough to piss someone off, but it is compounded when they go elsewhere, at least to some extent, become a better citizen...especially after saying the Sox don't deserve him.

 

Essentially, in his Sox tenure, we looked the other way because he could hit and probably also because we feared asking him to comply would result in a poorer attitude and reduced performance.

[redsoxrules]

Manny since the trade

 

in 111 AB

 

500 OBP, 748SLG, 414BA, 1248 OPS. thats Barry bonds type numbers

where the f*** were those numbers when he was here this year :dunno:

[Mr Crunchy]

manny hit 350 in july for us and now hes facing AAAA pitchers on suck teams rather than the american leagues vastly superior pitching.

joelle piniero is beating people up in the nl,he was cut here

chris carpenter won a cy young in st louis

when he was in toronto he was what we called one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse along with dave burba joey hamilton and rick helling,every game these guys pitched we bet over and cleaned up most every time...he goes to st louis and wins a cy young?

hillarious

this is reason #1 why manny is pounding the ball

[BoSox21]

he also pouted enough to have his options dropped so now he can finally play for a new deal in the off-season