Manny Ramirez Trade Deadline Thread (renamed)

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Obviously he doesn't' date=' as evidenced by the fact that he stated Millar and Mueller weren't that important either. Yes, the man who won the [b']2003[/b] AL batting title.

 

Millar was just in the right place at the right time. He was not vital to us winning anything in 04. Bill Mueller won the 2003 batting title, but if memory serves he wasn't quite as good in 04.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Millar was just in the right place at the right time. He was not vital to us winning anything in 04. Bill Mueller won the 2003 batting title' date=' but if memory serves he wasn't quite as good in 04.[/quote']

 

um he batted .297/.383/.474 that year

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You are new here' date=' so you don't get that this is an inside joke. However, given the amount of drool you've put on display here, you probably still wouldn't had you been around awhile.[/quote']

 

more example1 stuff I see.

 

You said you are reluctant to give Theo credit for the Foulke signing? The reason, he wasn't particularly good in '05.

 

Do you have any clue what he did for this team down the stretch in '04?

 

I'll re-word this one. Is was a great signing gone bad. I know that he was huge in 2004, but that was the only year of the deal he showed up. Imagine where we could have gone in 05 if we just had a quality closer.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

um he batted .297/.383/.474 that year

 

I stand corrected. Disregard the earlier stuff.

[Optimist]

I love this move. Manny destroyed the Yankees and I'm glad to see him out of the East and the American League. Jason Bay is a real good player, but I'd rather have him up for the Sox in a big spot against the Yankees instead of Manny on any day of the week.

[ORS]

They said on ESPN before that Bay has a .216 average with RISP.

 

Wonderful trade.

Do you know what this means? Not the acronym, but the predictive value of it?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I love this move. Manny destroyed the Yankees and I'm glad to see him out of the East and the American League. Jason Bay is a real good player' date=' but I'd rather have him up for the Sox in a big spot against the Yankees instead of Manny on any day of the week.[/quote']

Especially given his BA with RISP

[User Name]

Do you know what this means? Not the acronym' date=' but the predictive value of it?[/quote']

 

Uh..yes? What does this have to do with it?

[ORS]

I'll re-word this one. Is was a great signing gone bad. I know that he was huge in 2004' date=' but that was the only year of the deal he showed up. Imagine where we could have gone in 05 if we just had a quality closer.[/quote']

Well, that's the thing, we would have had a quality closer if not for '04. Foulke pitched in all 4 wins against the Yankees on consecutive days, and then in all 4 WS wins. He made 8 appearances in an 11 day span. He threw his arm out to bring us the first championship in 86 years, and he hasn't been the same since.

 

When pitchers start to age and decline, it's more of a gradual thing. He went from being a closer with a low 2 ERA and a WHIP below 1 to totally ineffective after that postseason.

 

That was a brilliant signing. It addressed the main flaw from the '03 season, and corrected it in bumrush fashion bringing home a championship.

[ORS]

Uh..yes? What does this have to do with it?

Oh, a lot, please tell us what we can expect.

[CrespoBlows]

They said on ESPN before that Bay has a .216 average with RISP.

 

Wonderful trade.

 

How many AB's is that sample size?

 

You do know that according to Jacko's stats, he has hit a lot better in those situations in the past?

[Gom]

Oh' date=' a lot, please tell us what we can expect.[/quote']

Actually, I'm curious. Where are you going with this? There are two schools of thought here. One is that the trend is bound to reverse itself and get closer to the mean.

 

The other is that past performance has no bearing on future results.

 

If my guess is correct, you're going with the first one. If that was the case, Arod is due for a season of batting .900 to counterbalance what he's done with us.

 

I'll let you run with this...just to see where you do go.

[ORS]

I would like to correct two incorrect posts earlier in this thread.

 

One, Jacko said PNC favored RH batters. Wrong, the configuration of the park has the biggest part of the OF being LF and LCF.

 

Two, somebody said Bay's hit chart favored RF. This is wrong too, at least it is if you go for the larger sample size and look at his career in PNC. He hits the majority of his HR to LF, and a very large amount of his 2B. There are quite a few FB that are beyond the dimensions of the monster.

 

He'll be a good fit in this park.

[CrespoBlows]

Actually, I'm curious. Where are you going with this? There are two schools of thought here. One is that the trend is bound to reverse itself and get closer to the mean.

 

The other is that past performance has no bearing on future results.

 

If my guess is correct, you're going with the first one. If that was the case, Arod is due for a season of batting .900 to counterbalance what he's done with us.

 

I'll let you run with this...just to see where you do go.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=00

 

Scroll down to the Bases Occupied category.

 

LOL UNCLUTCH ROD HU WON THE PEPSI CLUTCH PERFORMER LAST YEAR DOESNT HAVE A SINGLE RISP STAT UNDER A .900 OPS. LOL IM LOVIN IT!!!!

[ORS]

Actually, I'm curious. Where are you going with this? There are two schools of thought here. One is that the trend is bound to reverse itself and get closer to the mean.

 

The other is that past performance has no bearing on future results.

 

If my guess is correct, you're going with the first one. If that was the case, Arod is due for a season of batting .900 to counterbalance what he's done with us.

 

I'll let you run with this...just to see where you do go.

Well, if you think about it, the first and the second kind of say the same thing.

 

What the studies that have been done have shown is that there is very limited demonstration of "clutch" performance by players when you look at their whole careers in the various "clutch" splits. Given a large enough career to have a season's worth of stats in any give category, the large majority of players will have numbers that are in line with their career stats.

 

Not surprisingly, Bay, a .281 career hitter, is a career .280 hitter with RISP. If you prefer more telling stats, and I do, he's .901/.891 in OPS.

[ORS]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=rodrial01&year=00

 

Scroll down to the Bases Occupied category.

 

LOL UNCLUTCH ROD HU WON THE PEPSI CLUTCH PERFORMER LAST YEAR DOESNT HAVE A SINGLE RISP STAT UNDER A .900 OPS. LOL IM LOVIN IT!!!!

Nice, .969 career, .959 RISP. Choker.

[CrespoBlows]

Well, if you think about it, the first and the second kind of say the same thing.

 

What the studies that have been done have shown is that there is very limited demonstration of "clutch" performance by players when you look at their whole careers in the various "clutch" splits. Given a large enough career to have a season's worth of stats in any give category, the large majority of players will have numbers that are in line with their career stats.

 

Not surprisingly, Bay, a .281 career hitter, is a career .280 hitter with RISP. If you prefer more telling stats, and I do, he's .901/.891 in OPS.

 

Expanding on Gom's point about Rodriguez batting .900 to make up for his failures in the clutch.

 

He did have a 1.138 OPS with RISP in 2007. I guess that's almost as good as what you expected.

[ORS]

Mr Clutch himself....

 

.938 career, .930 RISP

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=ortizda01&year=00

[User Name]

Oh' date=' a lot, please tell us what we can expect.[/quote']

 

...for Jason Bay to be more likely to not be successful at bat with runners in scoring position?

 

Jason bay has worse AVG, SLG, and OPS this year. I don't see where anyone can think this was a successful trade, aside from age and cost. We needed help in the bullpen and did not get any, simple as that.

[Gom]

Well, if you think about it, the first and the second kind of say the same thing.

 

What the studies that have been done have shown is that there is very limited demonstration of "clutch" performance by players when you look at their whole careers in the various "clutch" splits. Given a large enough career to have a season's worth of stats in any give category, the large majority of players will have numbers that are in line with their career stats.

 

Not surprisingly, Bay, a .281 career hitter, is a career .280 hitter with RISP. If you prefer more telling stats, and I do, he's .901/.891 in OPS.

 

So what you're saying is that the .216 RISP is useless as a stat. In fact, RISP is useless as a stat overall, since invariably, given enough time, a hitter should hit the same in all situations, given a large enough sample size. In other words, a player's batting average should be the same throughout, irrespective of the situation.

 

I'm seriously not being sarcastic, but I'd buy that. I kinda think it's a bit of a useless statistic myself.

[ORS]

About the only thing it's good for is looking back and using to figure out who's contribution was more meaningful for their team over a given season (or period of time).

 

Even so, there's a better stat than that for determining "clutch" value.

[Gom]

So basically, you're in agreement with me that it's a pretty useless stat.

 

Like you, I don't buy the "clutch" thing. Never have.

[CrespoBlows]

So what you're saying is that the .216 RISP is useless as a stat. In fact, RISP is useless as a stat overall, since invariably, given enough time, a hitter should hit the same in all situations, given a large enough sample size. In other words, a player's batting average should be the same throughout, irrespective of the situation.

 

I'm seriously not being sarcastic, but I'd buy that. I kinda think it's a bit of a useless statistic myself.

 

Wow, something that even JHB and Gom can agree on.

[Gom]

It's actually me and ORS. We agree often, actually. We have our epic confrontations, but we leave it in that thread. It's not personal, and as far as online "friends" go, we get along pretty well in my book.

 

I know he takes pleasure in this, but I think he's as sharp as they come here and usually correct. Except when he's arguing with me when he's obviously wrong and being obtuse. I have a feeling he kinda feels the same way.

[rician blast]

It's actually me and ORS. We agree often, actually. We have our epic confrontations, but we leave it in that thread. It's not personal, and as far as online "friends" go, we get along pretty well in my book.

 

I know he takes pleasure in this, but I think he's as sharp as they come here and usually correct. Except when he's arguing with me when he's obviously wrong and being obtuse. I have a feeling he kinda feels the same way.

 

 

Holy s***, Gom...are you flirting with ORS? Seems you posted something very similar in the last day or two. This is getting weird.:stop:

[schillingouttheks]

Holy s***' date=' Gom...are you flirting with ORS? Seems you posted something very similar in the last day or two. This is getting weird.:stop:[/quote']

 

I'm starting to think that Gom believes he's always talking to dreilly.

[TheKilo]

A wash? We are getting some scrub from the Pirates for a HOFer.. The one time Bay was in the spot light was the homerun derby 0 hrs hit. Like GOM said this trade is disaster for the Sox. Come August 15th when Bay is booed Arod style I want to hear you people call me a idiot then' date=' untill then enjoy watching Willy Mo Pena or Jason Bay.. same player play left everyday.[/quote']

 

I mean, f***. You may be the most stupid poster that has ever graced this site.

[yeszir]

I mean' date=' f***. You may be the most stupid poster that has ever graced this site.[/quote']

 

I need to add an amendment to the rules saying insults are allowed if I, along with everyone else, agree with them.

[TheKilo]

This is getting worse, look at Bay's hit chart:

 

 

 

he is not a pull hitter, all of his ground ball outs seem to be to th left side, but when he hits it in the air, he is hitting it to the big part of Fenway, plus a new league, and new pitchers, asn we all know how well that worked for JD last year,

 

Think that might have something to do with PNC Park being 410' in the power alley?

[TheKilo]

Uhh cause he is a stiff? Why else would he be on the Pirates so long?

 

BECAUSE HE WAS f***ING DRAFTED BY THEM?