Johan Santana

[rician blast]

"With the Yankees interest apparently gone" - - - geez, that's a load of crap.

 

The longer this thing drags on the greater the chance the Yanks re-enter the discussion, IMO.

[TheKilo]

I don't know' date=' maybe not with his command issues.[/quote']

 

For once, I absolutely agree with Jacko.

 

Keep in mind the dude is like two years out of college. He made the jump very quickly.

[ORS]

Miller's upside tops them all. A 6'6" lefty who can throw high 90s consistently has the upside on anyone.

So Hagadone has more upside than Joba? Retraction in 5, 4, 3....

[das11209]

I will keep updating till the mods lock the thread:

 

12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons

• Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees trade. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana

 

 

[BSN07]

So Hagadone has more upside than Joba? Retraction in 5' date=' 4, 3....[/quote']

 

hahahahaha... Thats good stuff...

 

Does hagadone really throw in the upper 90's?

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I think the Red Sox have accomplished enough here. The Yankees didnt get Santana. The end.

[jacksonianmarch]

So Hagadone has more upside than Joba? Retraction in 5' date=' 4, 3....[/quote']

 

Hagadone does not sit high 90s as a starter.

[das11209]

I think the Red Sox has accomplished enough here. The Yankees didnt get Santana. The end.

 

For now. The Yankees will be the fav to get him next year.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think the Red Sox have accomplished enough here. The Yankees didnt get Santana. The end.

 

It sounds like the Yankees do not even want Santana for the price they are asking and I cannot blame them. Every day that passes that Santana is not dealt is another day the yankees win IMO. The best possible thing for the yankees is for the Twins to hold onto Santana for the season. That is the absolute best possible scenario. Actually, the uber best scenario is for the twins to hold onto Santana and come out smoking in 08. Have them in the lead in the central at the AS break so they wont even consider dealing him.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

It sounds like the Yankees do not even want Santana for the price they are asking and I cannot blame them. Every day that passes that Santana is not dealt is another day the yankees win IMO. The best possible thing for the yankees is for the Twins to hold onto Santana for the season. That is the absolute best possible scenario. Actually' date=' the uber best scenario is for the twins to hold onto Santana and come out smoking in 08. Have them in the lead in the central at the AS break so they wont even consider dealing him.[/quote']

Oh I agree, if he stays with the Twins it is the best case. I mean after all ofthe flirting this offseason I cant wait untill he becomes a free agent next year.

[ORS]

Hagadone does not sit high 90s as a starter.

Neither does Miller, but I doubt that matters. The spin/qualifying of your position has already begun, which was kind of my point.

[das11209]

A baseball official close to Boston management, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to disclose information, said the Red Sox and Twins are continuing to negotiate on players in a possible Johan Santana deal Wednesday.

 

The official added that the Red Sox are making offers as if there is still competition for Santana. For what it's worth, Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus still thinks the deal is going down, though the Twins want to know more about the condition of Jon Lester's arm before they proceed. There's been some speculation that Jacoby Ellsbury's recent move to make Scott Boras his agent could have the Twins souring on him, but with six years to go before free agency, that can't be a major concern right now.

[das11209]

The Mets are trying to jump back into the hunt for Johan Santana, but they're not offering Jose Reyes, according to SI.com's Jon Heyman.

 

The Mets have Fernando Martinez, Carlos Gomez, Mike Pelfrey, Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber to offer, but Heyman doesn't think they can get a deal done without Reyes. He just told WFAN that he believes a Santana trade with the Red Sox is still very much within reach.

[BoSox21]

so it's Will Carroll and Jon Heyman vs. Peter Gammons

[das11209]

Live Chat

Jamie (Utica, NY): Whats the deal with the Yanks? Are they seriously gonna let Santana go to the Red Sox? Is this a smart move to keep Horne, Jackson and Kennedy?

 

Jim Callis: (2:04 PM ET ) I seem to remember the Yankees were done negotiating with A-Rod, and I'm not sure we've heard the last of them with Santana quite yet. To get him, they're going to have to give up talent. Yankees fans and some of the local media seem to have this notion that clubs ask the Yankees for more than they ask for other teams for. But if you talk to some of the teams that try to trade with New York, they'll tell you that the Yankees declare far too many untouchables. Like most organizations, the Yankess probably value their prospects more than outside organizations do. I love Phil Hughes, but I don't think Melky Cabrera is special and I don't understand the reluctance to part with another genuine prospect. Honestly, the various Red Sox offers are easily more attractive, and the Angels, given all the Miguel Cabera talk, should be able to trump the Yankees' proposals, too.

[soxfan17881]

Peter Gammons was on MLB Home Plate (XM 175) a few minutes ago talking about Santana and Beckett. His theory being with Santana being 1 and 4 in the post season and Beckett being undefeated, that chucking out a 5 year $120 million deal to Santana could (and according to Gammons, justifiably should) piss off Beckett.

 

Beckett has played for two teams and those two teams have never lost a playoff series with him as their #1 starter.

[TheKilo]

Peter Gammons was on MLB Home Plate (XM 175) a few minutes ago talking about Santana and Beckett. His theory being with Santana being 1 and 4 in the post season and Beckett being undefeated, that chucking out a 5 year $120 million deal to Santana could (and according to Gammons, justifiably should) piss off Beckett.

 

Beckett has played for two teams and those two teams have never lost a playoff series with him as their #1 starter.

 

This argument is consistently brought up and is absolutely retarded.

[yankeessuck013]

BoSox operating as if Yankees have not forsaken Santana

by Ed Price/The Star-Ledger

Wednesday December 05, 2007, 12:44 PM

 

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- It is hard to find anyone in baseball who believes the Yankees are truly out of the running for Johan Santana. And the Boston Red Sox are operating under the assumption that the Yankees have not conceded on Santana.

 

Despite Senior Vice President Hank Steinbrenner's declaration Tuesday that the "thing is over," people point to a similar stance on Alex Rodriguez that was eventually forgotten.

 

 

The Yankees can hardly afford the Boston Red Sox to widen the gap between the teams by acquiring Santana.

 

A baseball official close to Boston management, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to disclose information, confirmed the Red Sox and Twins today are continuing to negotiate on players in a possible deal. And, the official said, the Red Sox are making offers as if there is still competition for Santana.

 

The official said that opposed to 24 hours earlier -- when the Red Sox were waiting to hear back from the Twins -- the teams are engaged, and that increases the likelihood of a deal.

 

And while one rumor had the deal in trouble because Minnesota learned Boston outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury just switched agents to Scott Boras, the official said the Twins are still interested in Ellsbury.

 

I do think the Detroit deal changed the Twins thinking though.

[das11209]

Ligtning round related with this trade. OK I lied about the last question - that is unrelated to this trade.

 

 

Sam, NYC: Who would you rather have Phil Hughes or Lester?

 

Jim Callis: (2:49 PM ET ) Hughes.

 

Nate (UNC):: Please rank these 3 pitching prospects: Buchholz, Joba, Kershaw.

 

Jim Callis: (2:50 PM ET ) Let's go in that order. But they all have the chance to be great.

 

Jay (NY): Ellsbury or Melky?

 

Jim Callis: (2:51 PM ET ) Ellsbury, easy. Better defender, better hitter, better runner.

 

Jon, Lansing, MI: Bucholtz or Andrew Miller?

 

Jim Callis: (2:51 PM ET ) Call me crazy, give me Buchholz.

 

Derek (Minneapolis): Fav and most desperate for Santana: Sox, Yanks, Dodgers, Angels, or Mets?

 

Jim Callis: (2:52 PM ET ) Favorite: Red Sox. Most desperate: Yankees. Best combination of those factors and the money to pay him: Angels.

 

chauncey (teaneck): do you have any infomation onAustin Jackson?

 

Jim Callis: (2:52 PM ET ) Athletic CF type, down year in 2006 but bounced back in 2007. Shouldn't be untouchable for Santana, though.

 

Steven (NYC): Jed Lowrie or Dustin Pedroia?

 

Jim Callis: (2:53 PM ET ) Pedroia, but it's close.

 

Tony (Brooklyn, NY): Horne or Kennedy?

 

Jim Callis: (2:54 PM ET ) Horne has a better arm, Kennedy is a better overall pitcher.

 

Batch (Boston): Ellsberry or Lester, which do you give up if your the Sox?

 

Jim Callis: (2:59 PM ET ) Lester, because I'm replacing him with Santana and also have Buchholz on hand.

 

Perry (NJ): Jessica Simpson or Jessica Alba?

 

Jim Callis: (2:59 PM ET ) You know it's Alba.

 

[soxfan17881]

This argument is consistently brought up and is absolutely retarded.

 

Care to elaborate?

[TheKilo]

Care to elaborate?

 

Yes. Beckett, in the midst of a s***** season, decided to accept the Red Sox's offer at reasonable money at 3/30 with a 4th year as a club option. He took the guaranteed money even though he knew the risks involved (ie outperforming that salary level, which he did this season).

 

Now why, if the Sox were to acquire Santana (who is a better pitcher than Josh Beckett), and he makes more money than Josh Beckett, why would they have to restructure his deal for fear of as you say, "pissing him off"? He assumed the risk of signing a deal for less money because of the guaranteed years.

[He Hate Me]

Yes. Beckett, in the midst of a s***** season, decided to accept the Red Sox's offer at reasonable money at 3/30 with a 4th year as a club option. He took the guaranteed money even though he knew the risks involved (ie outperforming that salary level, which he did this season).

 

Now why, if the Sox were to acquire Santana (who is a better pitcher than Josh Beckett), and he makes more money than Josh Beckett, why would they have to restructure his deal for fear of as you say, "pissing him off"? He assumed the risk of signing a deal for less money because of the guaranteed years.

 

I think the mistake being made by those people who are thinking like that is that they forget this isn't the NFL.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Yes. Beckett, in the midst of a s***** season, decided to accept the Red Sox's offer at reasonable money at 3/30 with a 4th year as a club option. He took the guaranteed money even though he knew the risks involved (ie outperforming that salary level, which he did this season).

 

Now why, if the Sox were to acquire Santana (who is a better pitcher than Josh Beckett), and he makes more money than Josh Beckett, why would they have to restructure his deal for fear of as you say, "pissing him off"? He assumed the risk of signing a deal for less money because of the guaranteed years.

 

I think you're right...contractually speaking, anyways. Beckett knows his payday will come and he's still young so he's got one definite, probably two big deals in his future.

 

On the other side of that, if I were Beckett...I'd consider it somewhat of a slap in the face if I'm the ace of the team and carry the team on my back through the postseason, then they go out and get a new guy and I'm dropped down to a #2. For that reason, I keep Beckett the #1 and make Santana #2. Beckett's ego, to me, is the only thing that can be damaged this whole thing, and I think that that can be avoided if you go Beck #1, Santana #2.

[god is a redsox FAN]

I think you're right...contractually speaking, anyways. Beckett knows his payday will come and he's still young so he's got one definite, probably two big deals in his future.

 

On the other side of that, if I were Beckett...I'd consider it somewhat of a slap in the face if I'm the ace of the team and carry the team on my back through the postseason, then they go out and get a new guy and I'm dropped down to a #2. For that reason, I keep Beckett the #1 and make Santana #2. Beckett's ego, to me, is the only thing that can be damaged this whole thing, and I think that that can be avoided if you go Beck #1, Santana #2.

 

That's what I am talking about when I said Beckett will have a better season this year. Because the season before he wasn't the ace of the team, he wasn't the all-star we were all expecting. Now he is the leader, he carried a team on his back, and I think with that confidence he will only go up. Beckett is one of the great pitchers, I don't care what anyone says. Sabathia is #2 to Beckett.

[TheKilo]

I think you're right...contractually speaking, anyways. Beckett knows his payday will come and he's still young so he's got one definite, probably two big deals in his future.

 

On the other side of that, if I were Beckett...I'd consider it somewhat of a slap in the face if I'm the ace of the team and carry the team on my back through the postseason, then they go out and get a new guy and I'm dropped down to a #2. For that reason, I keep Beckett the #1 and make Santana #2. Beckett's ego, to me, is the only thing that can be damaged this whole thing, and I think that that can be avoided if you go Beck #1, Santana #2.

 

How mentally weak do you think Beckett is? He's a big boy, he can handle situations like these.

[TheKilo]

* Boston and the Yankees have reportedly withdrawn from the Johan Santana sweepstakes. Perhaps a cooling off period is needed.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2007/12/detroit_tigers_fortunes_rising.html

[castigs850]

damn

[Behind the Bag]

The more I think about it, the more I think the Santana deal shouldn't happen if Ellsbury is the bait. If we don't do the trade, we still have a long term rotation of Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester and Buchholz. That's fine by me. We have Schill and Wake next year, and we can always sign a free agent stud next winter. We can trade Coco mid-season, or put him in center and move Jacoby to RF if Drew stinks up the joint again. Bottom line: Keep Ellsbury.

[cam780]

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2007/12/detroit_tigers_fortunes_rising.html

 

That was posted 10 minutes before this on ESPN:

 

4:03 p.m., from Jayson Stark

• The Red Sox and Twins continue to have "a lot of dialogue" about Johan Santana, according to one source with knowledge of their discussions. But there is no indication they've been able to rebuild any momentum toward a deal. The Red Sox want to make this deal on their terms, meaning they're still only willing to offer either Jon Lester or Jacoby Ellsbury but not both. The Twins think they need a bigger return if they're trading Santana. So even though their ability to compete in the AL Central took a hit with the Tigers' deal for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis, it doesn't appear that has heightened the Twins' sense of urgency to complete a deal.

 

I dont' think the Sox will walk away but I don't think they'll be caving. I have serious doubts about the trade getting done but more on the Twins part than the Sox. If the deal was going to get done, it would've been done yesterday in my opinion and the fact that they are actively seeking out other partners is a strong indicator of that.

 

Also, MLB doesn't operate like the NFL or even the NBA and players have to wait for their payday. Beckett doesn't strike me as a new Pedro. I think he's happy where he is. He'll get his in 2 or 3 years.

 

Lastly, I've seen alot of chatter about the Sox and Twins agreeing on the deal and then the Sox not getting it done because of the contract. I think that the team is serious and will get something done if the trade is consumated because they have to have an idea of the price and if the Sox had the deal and it fell through that makes it 300% easier for the Yanks to get back in for their price.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'd love to get this thing done, but if neither the Red Sox nor the Yankees get him, I'd be content.