The Clemens Watch

[seabeachfred]

Schill, I will be short and to the point with one of my Red Sox buddies on board. Simply put, if we have to stomach Harris in CF, Snow for any time at iB, Bard all season behind the plate when Wake pitches, DiNardo as our fifth starter, and Gonzales for a whole season at short with is worthless bat---we are deep do-do. Epstein has to act and act quick to shore up those spots.

[a700hitter]

Schill, I will be short and to the point with one of my Red Sox buddies on board. Simply put, if we have to stomach Harris in CF, Snow for any time at iB, Bard all season behind the plate when Wake pitches, DiNardo as our fifth starter, and Gonzales for a whole season at short with is worthless bat---we are deep do-do. Epstein has to act and act quick to shore up those spots.

I am not as negative about Snow and Bard, but I think Harris adds no value at all.

[The Monster is my Mom]

Schill, I will be short and to the point with one of my Red Sox buddies on board. Simply put, if we have to stomach Harris in CF, Snow for any time at iB, Bard all season behind the plate when Wake pitches, DiNardo as our fifth starter, and Gonzales for a whole season at short with is worthless bat---we are deep do-do. Epstein has to act and act quick to shore up those spots.

 

You must be pretty adamant about this since you posted the same thing 3 times.

 

Anyways, Youk will be our 1B most of the time and Snow is just a defensive replacement much like Olerud and Mienttijaljfkl;jdz were the previous years. So the arguement about needing upgrade for Snow is moot. Bard is actually batting 0.286 right now in pretty limited at-bats. A bigger concern should be Varitek who is batting 0.226 in many more at-bats.

 

Harris is only a temporary fix until Coco gets back so I don't see a need to trade for a better CF unless Coco proves to be fragile. DiNardo has had one decent outing and one bad one, so I don't think we should throw the towel in on him yet either.

[seabeachfred]

I am not as negative about Snow and Bard, but I think Harris adds no value at all.

 

700 Man, let's hope you are right about Bard and Snow and I am wrong. I would certainly prefer that. My reasoning is that Snow was really piss poor with the Giants last year and a few hits from him might go a long way to convince me the guy still has some snap in his bat. Bard? We are stuck with him for better or for worse and I certainly hope it is for the former. Glad we agree on Harris. The guy is a pinch runner and nothing more.:harhar: :thumbsup: :dunno:

[seabeachfred]

Monsterman----I said that THREE times? OOOOPPPPPSSSS!!!!!!! Sorry about that. I have to admit that the Toronto series really upset me. We had a great chance to start the road trip right and had a four run lead in the 8th inning with one of our two horses on the mound only to have that pitcher do a stupid thing that cost us the ballgame a few innings later. Players are supposed to have more smarts than that. Well, I think we can make do with what we have except for centerfield and our fifth starter. There is no way we can have both Harris and Gonzales in that lineup together, and DiNardo just does not have the stuff to be a starter in the big leagues.

[mtbykr]

Schill, I will be short and to the point with one of my Red Sox buddies on board. Simply put, if we have to stomach Harris in CF, Snow for any time at iB, Bard all season behind the plate when Wake pitches, DiNardo as our fifth starter, and Gonzales for a whole season at short with is worthless bat---we are deep do-do. Epstein has to act and act quick to shore up those spots.

 

 

-Ok, well Harris in CF better be just a temp thing. If coco is out an extended period of time then they need to either bring stern back up or play mohr there on a regular basis. --there is no way harris will be there for long!

 

-Youk will play at first provided he is healthy, so snow is just playing the eyechart role this year!

 

-Bard, in my opinion, will be fine. Belli started worse when he caught wake at the beggining. I think he will become more comfortable catching him, and he's already been ok at the plate

 

-Dinardo has had one good and one bad start--so let's hold off on him for now. A lot ot things could happen with this spot in the rotation: clemens, paps, ect.... down the road.

 

-Gonzo at short is a def hole in the lineup, but his D is stellar. I think we are noticing him more now becuase of the other holes in the lineup. If we get back to normal with coco at the top and youk dropping down, we minimize his bat and i think we will be fine. If there is a chance to upgrade cheap, then we can cross that bridge when we come to it. (come on Theo, bring o-cab back:D )

 

 

 

 

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[riverside sluggers]

River, I despise the Yankees so this is not a biased post in favor of your team, but you a re right in what you said. My suggestion is that the Red Sox are going to have to upgrade their bench and pitching if they want to go all the way this year. It is utterly ridiculous for Epstein and Francona to even think that DiNardo is the answer to our fifth starter. He can't pitch worth s*** PERIOD. We have an automatic out playing shortstop for us, an automatic out behind the plate everytime Wakefield pitches, and an automatic out at first everytime Youk plays third for us. What's more, now we have a hitless bum like Harris playing CF. Quite a comedown from Damon. Epstein is going to have to get off his ass and address those weaknesses or we Red Sox fans are going to lament another lost season. Sorry my Red Sox colleagues but that is just the way it is.

 

Is Harris, Damon's replacement? No he is not. Coco Crisp is and he will be back in like 2/3 weeks from now. Willie was brought in during spring training to really just be a bench player/pinch runner. Im still in belief that Dustan Mohr will get the majority of ABs in center field for the next few weeks. I hardly see that we're heading for another lost season, throwing in the towel after 19 games really isnt the way to go.

 

Bard has purely gotten better catching Wake since that day in Texas. Since then Wake has had 3 starts, 6 Runs (4 ER) in 24 innings pitched. First start had 4 passed balls, next 3 starts has had 2 passed balls. Wake's losses have mainly been due to a lack of run support, even last season it was a problem.

 

Im not yet worrying about Gonzo, he has already saved his share of runs. Which is what he was mainly brought on board for. If his offense continues as it is now, look for a call up for the promising Dustin Pedroia. Id say July is a good estimation, if not sonner than that.

 

About DiNardo, a 5th starter is the easiest starting pitcher that a GM can find. Something will be done if his next start remains shaky, gotta keep the faith.

[reddy]

With the rumor about D. Willis .... who will you prefer : Clemens or Willis ???

 

For me, no long reflexion : Willis.

[The Monster is my Mom]

I would take Willis over Clemens ANY DAY. The problem with Willis is we would have to trade people for him (like Lester), while Clemens we would only have to rob Fort Knox.

[reddy]

while Clemens we would only have to rob Fort Knox.

:clap: very fun but it's true, I read the first offer for Clemens is $3-4 millions / month for the rest of the season. But this number will increase.

[JethroTull]

Good thread goin' here.......fire up the rivalry for next week. A few thoughts to toss into the mix

 

On Clemens......It would make for the storybook ending, and I like Clemens enough, but the Sox should pass. He's not going to match Schill & Beckett speed wise. Put these 3 in succession, and by the time Roger comes up, enough heat & splits will have passed. Putting him 4th after a Wake won't change his effect. He lost the elimination game for both the U.S. team and the Astros. He should stay retired, or remain in the NL with Houston if at all, but I don't blame him one bit if he comes to the rotation of the winner of a bidding war for 3 months/15 starts. If either Boston or New York are stupid enough to throw big money at him, might as well take it. Either way, Clemens doesn't win a post season game in the AL.

 

On Damon(and by extension, Pedro).....Both wanted 5 years and settled for 4 in New York. Boston will look wrong for the first 2 years on both contracts, and smarter on the back end of both deals. If Pedro WAS in Boston this year, Beckett would not be.

 

On ownerships.........Big Stein has done Yankee Nation proud. But his star is on the wane. In Boston, call them what you will, but John Henry & Co. have this franchise on the rise like never before. It is their attention to action and detail that stands out from 70 years of Yawkey rule. 3 trips to the post season, including a championship, fantastic upgrades to the ballyard, complete with one of the best groundskeepers in the game. An infusion of young talent, shifting the style from slow pitch softball to hardball with defense, pitching upgrades, and BUNTING & STEALING; two things that are most decidedly un-Boston-like.

 

On the rivalry......Face it, Yankee fans, the tide is slowly turning in this tug of war. Full props are due for your stronghold on the AL East title these last 10 years. And world-wide, it is the Yankees that come to mind first when the talk turns to champions. Having said that, the franchise is looking long in the tooth, and Georgy Porgey isn't getting any younger. So far this millennium, he has consistantly outspent every team every year by a wide margin, only to come up short repeatedly. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. New York hasn't changed with the times, but the days of Lou "Nothin' doin'" Gorman are ovah ! Game on !

[ksushi]

Ksuschi, I loved your post. It showed good insight, too, but you obviously left something out. The Red Sox have to be looking for trade possibilities right now. It is utterly ridiculous for us to suppose we can get by with a bum like Harris in CF and an over-the-hill hasbeen like Snow in our lineup for any length of time. Both have deteriorated beyond hope as hitters, and as it is we have a hitless wonder playing shortstop for us as it is and a worse hittter when Wakefield pitches catching him. The Yankees have a good hitter from one to nine, and unless our pitching is lights out it is going to be hard to overcome that---especially when we have a puss throwing junker like DiNardo as our fifth starter. We are going to have to make a few moves or we might be in a boatload of trouble.

 

Harris is a fill in for Coco, so thats definetly not worth replacing via trade. Snow is a defensive replacement. Bard I'm not thrilled about. He's been ok, if he can catch wake, I'll take that hole in the line up if we can catch the ball better than the opposing team, and most times, we will. DiNardo isn't a puss throwing junker. One bad start and everyone wants to hang him. He is a valuable pitcher and a good player.

 

As for Gonzo, I love Gonzo. He gives us great defense in the infield and I think he is invaluable to our defense. I really believe that. Point is, he is a better hitter than what Cabrera would be, and he will get his average significantly above .200. I expect him to be at about .260. With his defense that is worth it. On days when wakefield isn't pitching we have a very good 1-8 with Coco Loretta Ortiz Ramirez Nixon Lowell Varitek and Youk. I think that is more than a good enough lineup when you consider how much better we are at the top of the rotation and in the bullpen this year.

 

About the Clemens v. Wills thing - Straight up I would rather have Willis, but when you consider what you give up to get Willis (Probably a package of Lester Pedroia and a Bowden or Martinez) I would rather keep the prospects and pay for Clemens because the value of having those three players so cheap for six ML years would make it worth dropping all that money for Clemens to make this, an inbetween year, successful while we wait for some of our prospects to come up and help us out down the road.

[seabeachfred]

Riverside, at first they said that Coco Crisp would be back no later than May 1; now they are saying May 15; who knows what they will be saying next week. I've seen these finger and wrist injuries drag on for months. We CANNOT afford to play Harris in CF what with the other weaknesses in our lineup. See if Pena can play there or let Mohr get the majority of at-bats there. We cannot afford to have more than one hole in our lineup for any length of time. As for DiNardo, sorry. I have seen him pitch a number of times. He is totally unimpressive---no fast ball, little movement on his pitches, high pitch count, and so-so breaking stuff. He is better suited as a situational lefty and nothing more.

[riverside sluggers]

As for DiNardo, sorry. I have seen him pitch a number of times. He is totally unimpressive---no fast ball, little movement on his pitches, high pitch count, and so-so breaking stuff. He is better suited as a situational lefty and nothing more.

 

Id rather say he's best suited for long relief. How can he be a situational lefty if lefties have a career .300 batting avg against him?

[TheRivernator]

shifting the style from slow pitch softball to hardball with defense, pitching upgrades, and BUNTING & STEALING; two things that are most decidedly un-Boston-like.

 

Tull, overall a good post, but this part is absurd. The sox have a team with one regular basestealer and he is on the DL. The sox lineup is one of the most unathletic offenses in the game....

[TheRivernator]

ksush, one point I wanted to make about relative obscurity. You say that it means nothing, yet there are so many players who can play in low pressure atmospheres yet when the cameras turn onto their lives and everyone starts watching they crumble. Some people will be stellar outside of NY or Boston, come to either team and suck, then leave and be solid again. Pressure plays into it, they are human after all....

[seabeachfred]

Id rather say he's best suited for long relief. How can he be a situational lefty if lefties have a career .300 batting avg against him?

 

Well you've got me there Riverman. OK, long relief it is. I can tell you this: If lefthand hitters are hitting over 300 against DiNardo he is even more useless to us than I first surmised.:thumbdown :thumbsup: :harhar: :dunno:

[ORS]

Some people will be stellar outside of NY or Boston, come to either team and suck, then leave and be solid again.

Name one recent example that fits the following criteria: 1) Injury had nothing to do with their performance in the "high-pressure" market, 2) The player was given a chance to rebound in the "high-pressure" market, because without a chance to rebound in-market, you don't know if it was the pressure, or just an off year.

[Mr Crunchy]

They have also gotten guys like Mussina and Johnson who are big names that have produced over the length of the contract.

 

really

mike mussina made 19,000,000.00 dollars last year,put up similar #s as bronson arroyo and got shelled out of the park in game 5 against the angels,even as bart colon wasnt able to get into the 2nd inning...

a real bargain eh??

shall we discuss his head to heads against wakefield in the playoffs??

mussina is on his game right now,and quite frankly his duels with petey back a few years ago were legendary

we can revisit this discussion in october for all to enjoy.

 

johnson is different

he lost to milwaukee tampa kc and the mets last year but put up decent #s against boston before he got annilahated against the angels in the playoffs.

hes cheap

16,000,000.00 so i suppose thats a bargain

[TheRivernator]

Name one recent example that fits the following criteria: 1) Injury had nothing to do with their performance in the "high-pressure" market, 2) The player was given a chance to rebound in the "high-pressure" market, because without a chance to rebound in-market, you don't know if it was the pressure, or just an off year.

 

Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan come to mind for now. A few will be added to the list shortly...

[rician blast]

Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan come to mind for now. A few will be added to the list shortly...

 

Neither Weaver nor Suppan could be considered "stellar" at ANY point in their careers, with or without the Yanks or Sox.

[seabeachfred]

Weaver had two good years with Detroit and was tabbed to become one of the league's best pitchers when traded to New York; he then collapsed and eventually was traded to the Dodgers. He ate up innings but always pitched well enough to lose or have no decision. True, the Dodger attack sucked to high heaven but even when they got him runs he gave them back. I firmly believe some players can step into a pressure situation and thrive while others wilt and fade away. I saw in on the amateur level for years managing teams ranging from ages 15-35 over a 30 year period. Some players are just games and some are not. Fact of life.

[ORS]

Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan come to mind for now. A few will be added to the list shortly...

Neither of Weaver and Suppan were top-flight pitchers, nor were either of them given a second chance after they sucked in NY and Boston. You don't know if it was the big market that got to them or if it was just adjusting to playing in the best offensive division in baseball. Yes, I will admit that there are some players who wilt under the pressure, but that is commonly overstated IMO.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

really

mike mussina made 19,000,000.00 dollars last year,put up similar #s as bronson arroyo and got shelled out of the park in game 5 against the angels,even as bart colon wasnt able to get into the 2nd inning...

a real bargain eh??

Wouldnt you say that had alot to do with his injury problems over the past 2 seasons? He did just come back from elbow inflamation late last september.

[rician blast]

Neither of Weaver and Suppan were top-flight pitchers, nor were either of them given a second chance after they sucked in NY and Boston. You don't know if it was the big market that got to them or if it was just adjusting to playing in the best offensive division in baseball. Yes, I will admit that there are some players who wilt under the pressure, but that is commonly overstated IMO.

 

I'd agree with that assessment...the market pressure is less of an issue than the scribes would like us to believe. In some cases its just an excuse.

 

I thought Weaver AND Suppan both were given second chances...they've both started for other teams since their forays in NY and Boston, no? And they've been unable to rise to any level of stardom.

[The Monster is my Mom]

I'd agree with that assessment...the market pressure is less of an issue than the scribes would like us to believe. In some cases its just an excuse.

 

I thought Weaver AND Suppan both were given second chances...they've both started for other teams since their forays in NY and Boston, no? And they've been unable to rise to any level of stardom.

 

I think Red was referring to being given a second chance in NY or Boston. But your point is taken for those examples.

[ORS]

I think Red was referring to being given a second chance in NY or Boston. But your point is taken for those examples.

Yeah, I was referring to the fact that underperformers in these markets are rarely given another chance. That makes it hard to distinguish from an off year and cracking under pressure.

[Bostons_Finest]

A classic reunion?

Apr 26 - Red Sox bullpen coach Al Nipper is hopeful -- maybe even confident -- that his old friend Roger Clemens will sign with the Red Sox, the Boston Globe reports. "I think we have a chance," Nipper told the newspaper. "We have a chance. We talked in Texas at great length, about things like how he'd fit in, and we talked to him about the ball club. I laid everything out. Believe me, I threw everything but the sink at him."

 

Clemens, who has drawn interest from the Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers and Astros, can begin negotiations with Houston on May 1. But agent Randy Hendricks told MLB.com on April 24 that Clemens "does not intend to play in May, so the May 1 date does not mean much," The New York Post reports.

 

The Astros make the most sense for the future Hall of Famer. The question is whether they are willing to pay the expected $3 to $4 million a month Clemens likely will command for the rest of the season. The Red Sox, Yankees and Rangers won't blink at those numbers, and they could escalate if it becomes a bidding war between the Red Sox and Yankees.

[redoctober]

Ksush, you are officially my messiah.

[ImissPedro]

check it out:

 

http://www.yawkeywaystore.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=TA0094

 

Do they know something we don't?